Some members in Religion section do not believe in preventing vice

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Killing of fornicators and apostates is not in qur'an but in hadith. This topic is already covered. I don't understand why you people keep bringing this up over and over again while rejecting Quran yourself. Read the verse of Quran I posted in the previous post.

Was this Hadith written during the Prophets(pbuh) time?

[Muslimah]

Maseed and Meem - totally with you on this one!

BRAVO!

[MazloomyarMaseed]

وَدَّ كَثِيرٌ مِّنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ لَوْ يَرُدُّونَكُم مِّن بَعْدِ إِيمَانِكُمْ كُفَّاراً حَسَدًا مِّنْ عِندِ أَنفُسِهِم مِّن بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُمُ الْحَقُّ فَاعْفُواْ وَاصْفَحُواْ حَتَّى يَأْتِيَ اللّهُ بِأَمْرِهِ إِنَّ اللّهَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

Wadda katheerun min ahli alkitabi law yaruddoonakum min baAAdi eemanikum kuffaran hasadan min AAindi anfusihim min baAAdi ma tabayyana lahumu alhaqqu faoAAfoo waisfahoo hatta yatiya Allahu biamrihi inna Allaha AAala kulli shayin qadeerun

{Quite a number of the People of the Book wish they could turn you [people] back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the truth hath become manifest unto them. But, forgive and overlook, till Allah accomplish His purpose; for Allah Hath power over all things.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:109)

Here it says, you should forgive them till Allah commands so, so how can propose a law that will kill those who convert to other faiths?????

http://islamawakened.org/quran/2/109/default.htm

http://www.ilaam.net/Questions/DefiningKafirs.html

[Muslimah]

^
I would like to see someone say otherwise

Well said!

[شمله ور خراساني]

وَدَّ كَثِيرٌ مِّنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ لَوْ يَرُدُّونَكُم مِّن بَعْدِ إِيمَانِكُمْ كُفَّاراً حَسَدًا مِّنْ عِندِ أَنفُسِهِم مِّن بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُمُ الْحَقُّ فَاعْفُواْ وَاصْفَحُواْ حَتَّى يَأْتِيَ اللّهُ بِأَمْرِهِ إِنَّ اللّهَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

Wadda katheerun min ahli alkitabi law yaruddoonakum min baAAdi eemanikum kuffaran hasadan min AAindi anfusihim min baAAdi ma tabayyana lahumu alhaqqu faoAAfoo waisfahoo hatta yatiya Allahu biamrihi inna Allaha AAala kulli shayin qadeerun

{Quite a number of the People of the Book wish they could turn you [people] back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the truth hath become manifest unto them. But, forgive and overlook, till Allah accomplish His purpose; for Allah Hath power over all things.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:109)

Here it says, you should forgive them till Allah commands so, so how can propose a law that will kill those who convert to other faiths?????


http://islamawakened.org/quran/2/109/default.htm

http://www.ilaam.net/Questions/DefiningKafirs.html

If you have taken the effort to find and translate this ayat, please let us know when this ayat was revealed and what was the context? Plus also provide evidence to support that the verse I showed you from Surah Al Anfaal (8:39) is not applicable. Because what you are doing now, is you are claiming that this ayat means that we should allow people of the book to try to convert us.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

If you have taken the effort to find and translate this ayat, please let us know when this ayat was revealed and what was the context? Plus also provide evidence to support that the verse I showed you from Surah Al Anfaal (8:39) is not applicable. Because what you are doing now, is you are claiming that this ayat means that we should allow people of the book to try to convert us.

Is your heart so black filled up with Saudi Taliban Propaghanda that you cant see things and forgive people, Sangar my friend, loose the gang mentality mara! It doesnt work anymore, Find a nice somalian woman, build yourself a nice home in a desert, take Mukhkasis and militant mullah with you, fantasize about ruling over whole of Europe, and how falling walls will crumble on those who oppose you rule.

I gave you a piece of the Quran, which says you must forgive, maybe your translation of the wordings is diverting towards your way of thinking, but iam truely unbiased, and look at it logically, it says forgive them as allah knows best.

Kind Regards

[شمله ور خراساني]

Is your heart so black filled up with Saudi Taliban Propaghanda that you cant see things and forgive people, Sangar my friend, loose the gang mentality mara! It doesnt work anymore, Find a nice somalian woman, build yourself a nice home in a desert, take Mukhkasis and militant mullah with you, fantasize about ruling over whole of Europe, and how falling walls will crumble on those who oppose you rule.

I gave you a piece of the Quran, which says you must forgive, maybe your translation of the wordings is diverting towards your way of thinking, but iam truely unbiased, and look at it logically, it says forgive them as allah knows best.

Kind Regards

You found those translations on websites run by amateurs. You can't provide the answer to the question so you resort to speaking more nonsense.

Let me teach how to do a good job:

The ayat you posted is from Surah al Baqarah. The ayat of Surah al baqarah are primarily regarding the Jewish community in the city of Madina.

And this particular ayat tells the Muslims to be patient with the constant attacks and challenged the jews were posing to cast doubt on the prophethood of prophet muhammad saww. And they would go about and tell the newly converted Muslims that the prophet Muhammd is a liar and that his message is false and only jews are following the true religion because they are the chosen people.

And the Muslims were loosing patience with the constant attacks and badmouthing if the prophet saww so this ayat tells them to be patient. And So they were patient. And eventually then the time was there an all out war against the jews was the result and the fall of Khaibar was the victory Allah granted the Muslims.

Important note for you is that the ayat from Surah Anfaal that I posted was revealed after this ayat from Surah al Baqarah. And the context of two Ayat should be clear to you before you are going to use them and apply them in a discussion.

In this case you have shown to have absolutely no knowledge of what you are saying. You refuse to take the effort to study the religion of Islam but you do go about on the forums talking trash and accusing others of all things while you yourself are totally ignorant of your own religion.

Have some dignity and stop googling ayat of quran from random shoddy websites so you can use them to please your ego here on Pashtunforums.

[Badlun]

If you take the Quran in context and shane nazool, and if you agree that some later verses cancel previous verses then the whole Quran become doubtful. You dont agree with verses quoted my maseed and give your explanations which people like us not very well vesed in religious studies may doubt the whole Quran. Its a very sensitive issue. You take Quran as a whole or you then search for the latest, for the correct one and this makes Quran really dubious. What to believe and what not to? What is latest and what is before. Very confusing.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

You found those translations on websites run by amateurs. You can't provide the answer to the question so you resort to speaking more nonsense.

Let me teach how to do a good job:

The ayat you posted is from Surah al Baqarah. The ayat of Surah al baqarah are primarily regarding the Jewish community in the city of Madina.

And this particular ayat tells the Muslims to be patient with the constant attacks and challenged the jews were posing to cast doubt on the prophethood of prophet muhammad saww. And they would go about and tell the newly converted Muslims that the prophet Muhammd is a liar and that his message is false and only jews are following the true religion because they are the chosen people.

And the Muslims were loosing patience with the constant attacks and badmouthing if the prophet saww so this ayat tells them to be patient. And So they were patient. And eventually then the time was there an all out war against the jews was the result and the fall of Khaibar was the victory Allah granted the Muslims.

Important note for you is that the ayat from Surah Anfaal that I posted was revealed after this ayat from Surah al Baqarah. And the context of two Ayat should be clear to you before you are going to use them and apply them in a discussion.

In this case you have shown to have absolutely no knowledge of what you are saying. You refuse to take the effort to study the religion of Islam but you do go about on the forums talking trash and accusing others of all things while you yourself are totally ignorant of your own religion.

Have some dignity and stop googling ayat of quran from random shoddy websites so you can use them to please your ego here on Pashtunforums.

But why does the Quran say FORGIVE THEM???????

To forgive somebody, especially coming from the Quran, that shows the Quran is very forgiving.

What ego on Pashtunforums? are you getting personel with me Sangar Sahib?

You see, Iam not as arrogant and as hipocritical as you, sitting in Holland, preaching to poor pashtuns that they must execute those whom you deem as unbeleivers, not just this, throughout your comments, you yap on about how bad sufis and shias are, ignoring the fact that most of the trash terrorists come from your school of thought, show me a single sufi who has beheaded anybody, look at the 7/7 attacks, who did them, which school of thought did they follow eh sangar sahib? they spoke the same tone as you.

You speak so badly about those who oppose taliban, and then you so arrogantly ignore the crimes the taliban have committed, Then you become very silent over who your talibs are, trashy rejects from Afghanistan patrolling with Pakistan Army units, look at the recently news article, your brave mujahideen Talib has put himself in charge of Pakistan Army convoys, you know, You ignore these facts, you and that Mukhakasis speak about taliban ruling the world, then infact your own taliban given the chance will be slaughtered by the public, once ISI stops protecting them.

By the way, did you give Mujahid SPokesman of Afghan taliban a call and shown him the video of his father Col Imam?

You sit there, promoting this talib school of thought, ignoring the facts that ISI had a whole hand in the whole Taliban movement, then you promote hatred towards Iran on the grounds that Iran helped the American invasion of Afghanistan, but neglect the fact that if War comes to Iran, then little Wahabis will be on the front line fighting Americas war just as they did in Afghanistan, have you no shame, Soviets were lured in by the same people who call you soldiers of allah, ahem charlie wilson, reagon etc.

I dare you to flee Holland, go meet abu bakar in Peshawer and Mukhkasis in Angoor Adda, Iam sure they will introduce you their local mullah with a first class degree in ISI jihadism.

Kind Regards

[شمله ور خراساني]

But why does the Quran say FORGIVE THEM???????

To forgive somebody, especially coming from the Quran, that shows the Quran is very forgiving.

What ego on Pashtunforums? are you getting personel with me Sangar Sahib?

You see, Iam not as arrogant and as hipocritical as you, sitting in Holland, preaching to poor pashtuns that they must execute those whom you deem as unbeleivers, not just this, throughout your comments, you yap on about how bad sufis and shias are, ignoring the fact that most of the trash terrorists come from your school of thought, show me a single sufi who has beheaded anybody, look at the 7/7 attacks, who did them, which school of thought did they follow eh sangar sahib? they spoke the same tone as you.

You speak so badly about those who oppose taliban, and then you so arrogantly ignore the crimes the taliban have committed, Then you become very silent over who your talibs are, trashy rejects from Afghanistan patrolling with Pakistan Army units, look at the recently news article, your brave mujahideen Talib has put himself in charge of Pakistan Army convoys, you know, You ignore these facts, you and that Mukhakasis speak about taliban ruling the world, then infact your own taliban given the chance will be slaughtered by the public, once ISI stops protecting them.

Kind Regards

When you are refuted after you copied and pasted from a random website without knowing what you are doing you resort to personal attacks and your endless ranting on how I am a hypocrite for living in Holland.

You sound like a broken record.

Get real. You have failed. Big time. That verse does not allow non-Muslims to preach and proselytize in Islamic countries.

So don't try to divert by turning this into yet another discussion why I live in Holland and I am not in Afghanistan.

You need to work on your material. Invent something new.

[Muslimah]

There is a difference between ISLAM and what ISLAM teaches, and what crazy monkey taliban/jihadists has taken out of context to give them the right to blow peoples heads off at the tiniest little flaw.

I see some taliban monsters on here, and some Muslims.

I for one, am a Muslim. Quran is the word from God. That comes before any story, and hadith. Quran is perfect. Hadith is also great, but it comes second to Quran as it was written by men and not by Allah swt.

[شمله ور خراساني]

If you take the Quran in context and shane nazool, and if you agree that some later verses cancel previous verses then the whole Quran become doubtful. You dont agree with verses quoted my maseed and give your explanations which people like us not very well vesed in religious studies may doubt the whole Quran. Its a very sensitive issue. You take Quran as a whole or you then search for the latest, for the correct one and this makes Quran really dubious. What to believe and what not to? What is latest and what is before. Very confusing.

It is your problem that you don't invest your time in studying Islam and the tafseer of the ayat and rather go and promote shirk by making threads about astrology.

Don't come complaining to me because you are confused due to your own lack of commitment and dedication of the religion you claim to follow.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

One question Sangar,

you don't seem to stand against anything Western, like their education system, then why is it that you have a problem with Christianity being preached in Afghanistan?

[Muslimah]

When you are refuted after you copied and pasted from a random website without knowing what you are doing you resort to personal attacks and your endless ranting on how I am a hypocrite for living in Holland.

You sound like a broken record.

Get real. You have failed. Big time. That verse does not allow non-Muslims to preach and proselytize in Islamic countries.

So don't try to divert by turning this into yet another discussion why I live in Holland and I am not in Afghanistan.

You need to work on your material. Invent something new.

I have a Quran in front of me. Three in fact. They say the same thing. Are my Qurans fake??

[شمله ور خراساني]

One question Sangar,

you don't seem to stand against anything Western, like their education system, then why is it that you have a problem with Christianity being preached in Afghanistan?

That's a dumb question.

Their education is based on advanced science and it to a quite large extent very rational. But their religion is based on lies and fabrications. And thanks to the the advanced sciences we now know that the Bible was tampered with over and over again and the message of Christianity is changed over and over again.

We have to acknowledge the good in the advanced Western societies. Their arts and sciences, their technology and the rule of law is something we should respect and admire and try to immitate.

But their worship of other than allah and other vices should not be immitated or copied.