Some members in Religion section do not believe in preventing vice

[شمله ور خراساني]

Clearly - people can try to shove Christianity in my face, and I am smart enough to know its not right. I don't think you have to be rich or educated to realize this.

So even if they're preaching to uneducated, poor people in Afghanistan - which I don't think ANYBODY is agreeing with on PF, I would assume that as a human, and as a Muslim, none of us are stupid enough to convert to Christianity unless it is for a selfish reason.

I think this thread is unnecessary. I know we are all Muslims and happy to be. I think the difference is that some people feel we can't deny the inevitable. We live in a world with people of many cultures and religions. As much as we don't like other religions and them being in our face, we have to deal with it and put up with it. We can't deny this. Just as people in North America often dispise Muslims preaching their faith. SOME people are just saying there isn't much we can do to stop Christianity from being spread, just as Christians cannot stop us. But the important thing is this:

Islam is spreading rapidy and is taking over. Christianity is declining. This is FACT!

So, for every Muslim we may loose to Christianity, which is very, very rare in itself, we gain hundreds of Muslims.

Try to think positive, and stop denying the inevitable. We live in a shared world and by no means do we control everything. If you want to, why don't you go create a massive nuclear weapon and threaten to wipe out the whole world if they don't listen to you.

This thread is not about preaching christianity, but about the necessity of preventing vice which some members see as redundant.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

This thread is not about preaching christianity, but about the necessity of preventing vice which some members seem as redundant.

We are not redundant, but just find most methods of preventing it very hipocritical and unreal such as collapsing walls and hanging the dead bodies of criminals in markets and bazaars.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

This is Christianity:

"I'm going to create man and woman with original sin. Then I'm going to impregnate a woman with myself as her child, so that I can be born. Once alive, I will kill myself as a sacrifice to myself, to save you from the sin I originally condemned you to "

Now that makes perfect sense and should be preached!

Will your Mullah Nazeer lead Muslims to dominate the whole world?

[شمله ور خراساني]

We are not redundant, but just find most methods of preventing it very hipocritical and unreal such as collapsing walls and hanging the dead bodies of criminals in markets and bazaars.

My mistake. I wrote "seem" but what I wanted to write is "see"

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

This thread is not about preaching christianity, but about the necessity of preventing vice which some members see as redundant.

As I have always maintained that you don't read or reflect when you write.

[شمله ور خراساني]

I can read perfectly fine, I ment "we" as in those who oppose your methods, as you said,Some members.

You are deliberatly trying to divert the topic.

Do you support the promotion of vice or do you oppose promotion of vice?

If you support promotion of vice because you've been traumatized by Mullah Nazeer, then please apply to one of those NHS counceling courses for people suffering from post-traumatic disorder.

[شمله ور خراساني]

As I have always maintained that you don't read or reflect when you write.

great! the great proponent of vice has logged on.

Please explain read the topic starter and tell us what's your take on preventing vice.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Sangar, what you are presenting is your preception of how we should protect Islam. Which is fine. This is your understanding and the understanding of the scholars you adhere to. However, this is NOT Islam's stance.

That is the difference.

Please understand, Sangar Jana, I honestly feel what you are saying, and I honestly am coming to terms about your sincerity. I actually to feel that you are honest and I agree that we should protect Muslims and Islam.

However, and this is why I oppose you, we have to follow what Islam has said. Islam has not stopped us from banning preaching.

Munkar exists everywhere. We cannot hide from it. However, to ban people from expressing their views is not right. It is unIslamic.

The laws that exist in Muslim countries is not reflective of Islam: it is an interpretation of certain scholars' view on how to protect people from leaving Islam.

Please don't confuse the two.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Sangar, what you are presenting is your preception of how we should protect Islam. Which is fine. This is your understanding and the understanding of the scholars you adhere to. However, this is NOT Islam's stance.

That is the difference.

Please understand, Sangar Jana, I honestly feel what you are saying and I honestly am coming to terms about your sincerity. I actually to feel that you are honest and I agree that we should protect Muslims and Islam.

However, and this is why I oppose you, we have to follow what Islam has said. Islam has not stopped us from banning preaching.

Munkar exists everywhere. We cannot hide from it. However, to ban people from expressing their views is not right.

The laws that exist in Muslim countries is not reflective of Islam it is an interpretation of certain scholars' view on how to protect people from leaving Islam.

Please don't confuse the two.

Are you saying preaching Christianity is not munkar and therefore we should allow it? Just like offering sex in exchange for money or selling liquor is?

If you are saying that the scholars I adhere to are wrong, please show me which scholar does allow promotion of vice. And Please provide fatawa of knowledgeable scholars of Islam who have spoken against the ban on christian proselytizing in Islamic countries.

You have to provide a quranic verse that tolerates the promotion of vice.

And you have to name at least one scholar who holds the view that we should allow the promotion of vice.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

You are deliberatly trying to divert the topic.

Do you support the promotion of vice or do you oppose promotion of vice?

If you support promotion of vice because you've been traumatized by Mullah Nazeer, then please apply to one of those NHS counceling courses for people suffering from post-traumatic disorder.

Iam just abit Traumatized by double standards and my mental health is intact and very good.

I suggest maybe you should attend some Madrassah operated by ISI, you will find many supporters.

Kind Regards

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Sangar, you live in a country where you are listening to and are expose to vice all the time. What makes you not go after it?

If you call preaching Christianity a vice then where do you draw the line about what we can express and what we can't express?

What you are doing is exactly what the Meccans of Arabia thought of Islam's message. They thought it as munkar and went all out to stop it.

Take a moment and reflect, dear brother.

Allah says in the Holy Quran that if He had enforced religion on people everyone would have believed. Thereafter, He asks believers that if we would force people to become believers. A rhetorical question. Allah further says that people are allowed to choose what they want to. Lastly, Allah says that it is up to Him who believes and who does not.

Hence, if we forbid preaching then we are forcing Islam on people. We are playing Allah by dictating who should believe and who should not.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Are you saying preaching Christianity is not munkar and therefore we should allow it? Just like offering sex in exchange for money or selling liquor is?

If you are saying that the scholars I adhere to are wrong, please show me which scholar does allow promotion of vice. And Please provide fatawa of knowledgeable scholars of Islam who have spoken against the ban on christian proselytizing in Islamic countries.

You have to provide a quranic verse that tolerates the promotion of vice.

And you have to name at least one scholar who holds the view that we should allow the promotion of vice.

Can you show us a Quranic text that promotes walls collapsing on people and stoning of people with their heads only showing on the ground?

Sangar, you cant use Quran to suit your own Agenda, In the Quran it says Islam should not be compelled on others, compelled, meaning being forced upon, so why do you thank Mukhakasis for saying Islam wil dominate the world and nobody will stop it.

Kind Regards

[شمله ور خراساني]

Sangar, you live in a country where you are listening to and are expose to vice all the time. What makes you not go after it?

If you call preaching Christianity a vice then where do you draw the line about what we can express and what we can't express?

What you are doing is exactly what the Meccans of Arabia thought of Islam's message. They thought it as munkar and went all out to stop it.

Take a moment and reflect, dear brother.

Allah says in the Holy Quran that if He had enforced religion on people everyone would have believed. Thereafter, He asks believers that if we would force people to become believers. A rhetorical question. Allah further says that people are allowed to choose what they want to. Lastly, Allah says that it is up to Him who believes and who does not.

Hence, if we forbid preaching then we are forcing Islam on people. We are playing Allah by dictating who should believe and who should not.

You are dodging my question. Please reply to my post and answer the question I posed to you:

Are you saying preaching Christianity is not munkar and therefore we should allow it? Just like offering sex in exchange for money or selling liquor is?

If you are saying that the scholars I adhere to are wrong, please show me which scholar does allow promotion of vice. And Please provide fatawa of knowledgeable scholars of Islam who have spoken against the ban on christian proselytizing in Islamic countries.

You have to provide a quranic verse that tolerates the promotion of vice.

And you have to name at least one scholar who holds the view that we should allow the promotion of vice.

Yes, I am aware of being exposed to al munkar. That is exactly the reason why Muslims are told to leave non-Muslim countries and live in Islamic countries. However, I stay here because I have to finish my education and pay off my dept. I am not here because I prefer being exposed to al munkar. What prevents me from engaging al munkar, only allah knows of my situation. Being here is a great trial and every day is like a battle. You have to be a radical Muslim with a warrior mentality to resist munkar all around you. And I am not ashamed of saying that I do not have the capacity. Because Allah is my witness, living here will corrupt the mind of a Muslim and lead him to actions that cause harm. Just the fact that I have a dept which is in riba(interest) is a great sin and it is impossible to prevent munkar from overpowering you when you live in the land of Kuffaar!.

Regarding you question on where we can draw the line and where can we limit freedom of expression, just ask yourself why the prophet Muhammad sal allahu alayhi wasallam banned all other religions from being practiced after he conquered Mekkah. Our standards are the standards of our prophet saww and his companions. Not the standards of liberal democracies.

And the ayat you keep repeating about freedom of religion is abrogated by the following ayat:

سُوۡرَةُ الاٴنفَال


وَقَـٰتِلُوهُمۡ حَتَّىٰ لَا تَكُونَ فِتۡنَةٌ۬ وَيَڪُونَ ٱلدِّينُ ڪُلُّهُ ۥ لِلَّهِ*ۚ فَإِنِ ٱنتَهَوۡاْ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ بِمَا يَعۡمَلُونَ بَصِيرٌ۬

Al-Anfal
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do.[] (39)

[شمله ور خراساني]

Can you show us a Quranic text that promotes walls collapsing on people and stoning of people with their heads only showing on the ground?

Sangar, you cant use Quran to suit your own Agenda, In the Quran it says Islam should not be compelled on others, compelled, meaning being forced upon, so why do you thank Mukhakasis for saying Islam wil dominate the world and nobody will stop it.

Kind Regards

Killing of fornicators and apostates is not in qur'an but in hadith. This topic is already covered. I don't understand why you people keep bringing this up over and over again while rejecting Quran yourself. Read the verse of Quran I posted in the previous post.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

You are dodging my question. Please reply to my post and answer the question I posed to you:






Yes, I am aware of being exposed to al munkar. That is exactly the reason why Muslims are told to leave non-Muslim countries and live in Islamic countries. However, I stay here because I have to finish my education and pay off my dept. I am not here because I prefer being exposed to al munkar. What prevents me from engaging al munkar, only allah knows of my situation. Being here is a great trial and every day is like a battle. You have to be a radical Muslim with a warrior mentality to resist munkar all around you. And I am not ashamed of saying that I do not have the capacity. Because Allah is my witness, living here will corrupt the mind of a Muslim and lead him to actions that cause harm. Just the fact that I have a dept which is in riba(interest) is a great sin and it is impossible to prevent munkar from overpowering you when you live in the land of Kuffaar!.

Regarding you question on where we can draw the line and where can we limit freedom of expression, just ask yourself why the prophet Muhammad sal allahu alayhi wasallam banned all other religions from being practiced after he conquered Mekkah. Our standards are the standards of our prophet saww and his companions. Not the standards of liberal democracies.

And the ayat you keep repeating about freedom of religion is abrogated by the following ayat:

سُوۡرَةُ الاٴنفَال

وَقَـٰتِلُوهُمۡ حَتَّىٰ لَا تَكُونَ فِتۡنَةٌ۬ وَيَڪُونَ ٱلدِّينُ ڪُلُّهُ ۥ لِلَّهِ*ۚ فَإِنِ ٱنتَهَوۡاْ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ بِمَا يَعۡمَلُونَ بَصِيرٌ۬

Al-Anfal


And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do.[] (39)

If you interpret that to your point of view,
then what are you doing contributing to a country that openly is supportive of promoting the vice?

In other words, when you pay tax, purchase products from Holland, you are directly making the economy of a promoter of vice very strong, so you in return are going against your own point of view.

"2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing."

http://www.themodernreligion.com/ter...sm_verses1.htm

"2:62 Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve."

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Islam-947...ims-heaven.htm

If i am incorrect, please correct me, but iam sure these are wordings of the Quran.

One side, Quran says, do not force people to convert, which contradicts Mukhaasis view of Islam dominating the world weather non muslims like it or not.

Then we have the whole christians,jews etc going to heaven, for which msot of you oppose.

What is going on!!!!!!!