Some members in Religion section do not believe in preventing vice

[شمله ور خراساني]

As salaamu aleikoum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

In various discussion's some members keep defending the right of people to practice and preach vice (al munkar).

As a common aspect of our religion we know that it is obligatory on Muslims to promote virtue and prevent vice (amr bil maroof wa al nihal munkar)

The defendants of vice claim that Muslims are preaching Islam in non Islamic countries, therefore they should allow Christians to preach Christianity in Muslim countries.

This implies that they consider Islam to be vice in non-Muslim societies and therefore they consider it equally deplorable.

The core of this argument does not lie in the case of Christian Evangelists. But in our understanding of our religious duties.

Therefore, I made this separate thread so we can discuss this while focusing at the core of the issue rather than bickering over its trivia.

I want to pose a few questions and I want you to answer these questions in a civilized manner.

Should we allow people to sell alcohol and run brothels in Muslim societies? If No, why not? Since reasoning by analogy, committing shirk by becoming Christians and worshiping Christ instead of Allah we would commit much more graver sin than fornication or drinking of alcohol.


Therefore, if you are going to pick and choose which vice you are going to prevent and which one you are going to allow, it only implies that you disbelieve in your religion and only want to conform to Western values.

Because you guys argue that if Western societies allow something, so should we. This implies that you neglect your own religion and you uphold Western values above Islam.

The issue is of great concern. Because it reveals how corrupted the mind of some of our members is that they see no problem in preaching of Kufr and they want to balance Islamic monotheism with man made values of Western societies.

If we are going to allow vice (al munkar) and claim that because kuffaar have allowed virtue in their lands of kuffaar, we should not prevent vice, this nullifies our testimony of faith. Because testimony of faith by itself is an embodiment of amr bil maruf wa al nihal bil munkar. Because by statin I believe in non other worthy of worship but allah, we have negated all other false deities and we have affirmed the true religion and the true monotheism.

I hope this made sense to some members with less knowledge about this matter. Please pay attention to religion section where I am going to post a few articles explaining what promotion of virtue and prevention of vice means and also what nullified your testimony of faith.

[Mutakhasis]

The defendants of vice claim that Muslims are preaching Islam in non Islamic countries, therefore they should allow Christians to preach Christianity in Muslim countries.

Whoever believes this is a complete imbecile and in reality doesn't believe in Allaah

A simple conviction of Allaah being the Creator and Sustainer, a person will achieve that the Earth should be ruled by Islaam

It doesn't matter what country is kaafir or not, the dominance of Islaam is a must and happening before our eyes

The kuffar are terrified day by day, when the time comes that they will eventually answer to the crimes and corruption committed by them

Islaam will be implemented from every capital of the world soon, this is a unconditional promise, and it's adorable to see the kuffar hating and resisting to of no avail

[MazloomyarMaseed]

As salaamu aleikoum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

In various discussion's some members keep defending the right of people to practice and preach vice (al munkar).

As a common aspect of our religion we know that it is obligatory on Muslims to promote virtue and prevent vice (amr bil maroof wa al nihal munkar)

The defendants of vice claim that Muslims are preaching Islam in non Islamic countries, therefore they should allow Christians to preach Christianity in Muslim countries.

This implies that they consider Islam to be vice in non-Muslim societies and therefore they consider it equally deplorable.

The core of this argument does not lie in the case of Christian Evangelists. But in our understanding of our religious duties.

Therefore, I made this separate thread so we can discuss this while focusing at the core of the issue rather than bickering over its trivia.

I want to pose a few questions and I want you to answer these questions in a civilized manner.

Should we allow people to sell alcohol and run brothels in Muslim societies? If No, why not? Since reasoning by analogy, committing shirk by becoming Christians and worshiping Christ instead of Allah we would commit much more graver sin than fornication or drinking of alcohol.


Therefore, if you are going to pick and choose which vice you are going to prevent and which one you are going to allow, it only implies that you disbelieve in your religion and only want to conform to Western values.

Because you guys argue that if Western societies allow something, so should we. This implies that you neglect your own religion and you uphold Western values above Islam.

The issue is of great concern. Because it reveals how corrupted the mind of some of our members is that they see no problem in preaching of Kufr and they want to balance Islamic monotheism with man made values of Western societies.

If we are going to allow vice (al munkar) and claim that because kuffaar have allowed virtue in their lands of kuffaar, we should not prevent vice, this nullifies our testimony of faith. Because testimony of faith by itself is an embodiment of amr bil maruf wa al nihal bil munkar. Because by statin I believe in non other worthy of worship but allah, we have negated all other false deities and we have affirmed the true religion and the true monotheism.

I hope this made sense to some members with less knowledge about this matter. Please pay attention to religion section where I am going to post a few articles explaining what promotion of virtue and prevention of vice means and also what nullified your testimony of faith.

The big question is, what if the Christian start practicing the promotion of virture and prevention of vice? How would muslims react to it, since we all share the same planet?

When you wrote about selling alcohol and opening up brothels, did you directly mean Christians and if so, what if Christians do not approve of selling alcohol and opening up brothels? Would you still deem them as a threat? Secondly, Alcohol was been produced on the land of the Muslims for a very long time, so the whole cultural aspect can be thrown out of the Window.

[Mutakhasis]

The more propaganda they try to spread against Islaam, only backfires and eventually will leave them cripple

[شمله ور خراساني]

The big question is, what if the Christian start practicing the promotion of virture and prevention of vice? How would muslims react to it, since we all share the same planet?

When you wrote about selling alcohol and opening up brothels, did you directly mean Christians and if so, what if Christians do not approve of selling alcohol and opening up brothels? Would you still deem them as a threat? Secondly, Alcohol was been produced on the land of the Muslims for a very long time, so the whole cultural aspect can be thrown out of the Window.

You should read more carefully.

The argument is not to fear christians. It is the promotion of false religion.

Obviously we, of Ahlul Sunnah we accept the truth even if it comes from the devil. So why would we have any problem with Christians banning the sale of alcohol and closing down brothels?

The argument is, Christians who promote Christianity among muslims are promoting vice. Since Christianity teaches us to worship Jesus and they claim that Allah has a son. And therefore if they preach this falsehood we are obliged to prevent them.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Whoever believes this is a complete imbecile and in reality doesn't believe in Allaah

A simple conviction of Allaah being the Creator and Sustainer, a person will achieve that the Earth should be ruled by Islaam

It doesn't matter what country is kaafir or not, the dominance of Islaam is a must and happening before our eyes

The kuffar are terrified day by day, when the time comes that they will eventually answer to the crimes and corruption committed by them

Islaam will be implemented from every capital of the world soon, this is a unconditional promise, and it's adorable to see the kuffar hating and resisting to of no avail

Kaffir dont hate you for you, just hate your complete arrogance to life and others. You speak of domination of the world, yet your cant even sort your own angoor adda out.

Kuffer are not terrified, if they was, they would have booted every muslim out by now, not just this, when the whole banning of the minoret in the Swizerland, it was so called Kaffirs who marched in protest of the banning, while your Muslim legionnaires were sun bathing in Sauadi Arabia with 40 wifes.

The whole dominating of Islam of the west, is just a political tool used by Anti Muslim forces to increase discrimination against Muslims and give excuses to others to bash and spread Islamophobic propaghanda.

I am in utter laughter at Mukhakasis, The Muslim world is one of the worlds most poorest regions, Allah isnt just going to send a bolt of lightening in one day, and turn the muslim world into a developed,educated and progressive society, I find it very lazy of Madrassah students to promote such illogical turmoil by avoiding real issues, and replacing them with non sense such as Muslims with horses and swords will over run Western Tanks and survive a Nuclear bomb attack.

Always remmeber this Mukhakasis, America nuked Japan, alot of civilians died, what makes you think they wont nuke the Muslim world? what if they did? do you think your body will float in the air and be immune to poison radioactive material?

Kind Regards.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

The more propaganda they try to spread against Islaam, only backfires and eventually will leave them cripple

They dont need to spread Propaghanda, Muslims are already doing it to themselves.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

You should read more carefully.

The argument is not to fear christians. It is the promotion of false religion.

Obviously we, of Ahlul Sunnah we accept the truth even if it comes from the devil. So why would we have any problem with Christians banning the sale of alcohol and closing down brothels?

The argument is, Christians who promote Christianity among muslims are promoting vice. Since Christianity teaches us to worship Jesus and they claim that Allah has a son. And therefore if they preach this falsehood we are obliged to prevent them.

I agree to some extent, but however, is violence and force a good way to prevent them or a simple intellectual debate be better?

To kill them will only make them stronger, as Faith goes beyond the boundries of race,culture and language.

[شمله ور خراساني]

I agree to some extent, but however, is violence and force a good way to prevent them or a simple intellectual debate be better?

To kill them will only make them stronger, as Faith goes beyond the boundries of race,culture and language.

Well, if you do not grant permission as a Muslim government to Christian evangelist organizations to operate on your territory, does that constitute to resorting to violence?

In most Islamic countries, the law and constitution prevents Christian evangelist organizations from entering there to preach. Only in countries occupied and run by America, like Iraq & Afghanistan do you see such organizations operating freely.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Well, if you do not grant permission as a Muslim government to Christian evangelist organizations to operate on your territory, does that constitute to resorting to violence?

In most Islamic countries, the law and constitution prevents Christian evangelist organizations from entering there to preach. Only in countries occupied and run by America, like Iraq & Afghanistan do you see such organizations operating freely.

Ok fair enough.

But what if Muslims living in a Christian country, convert to Christainity out of choice, does your laws apply there as well?

What if Sufi Activists are operating in countries such as Iraq and Afghanistan, will the promote virture and prevent vice prevent them as well?

[شمله ور خراساني]

Ok fair enough.

But what if Muslims living in a Christian country, convert to Christainity out of choice, does your laws apply there as well?

What if Sufi Activists are operating in countries such as Iraq and Afghanistan, will the promote virture and prevent vice prevent them as well?

Stop making it look like it is my law. In the other thread I've provided enough resources to explain that these laws are inherent in the religion of Islam.

If a Muslim becomes an apostate in a non-Muslim land, nobody is allowed to kill that person since he falls under the rule of law of the land of the non-Muslims. Therefore Muslims have no authority.

Even if a Muslim becomes an apostate in the land of Islam, only the authority in the land is allowed to judge a person and invastigate if the person is really an apostate and when sufficient evidence have been produced, the judge will decide to execute the person or not.

What concerns the Sufis who promote their version of Islam, if the state religion of a country is of Ahlul Sunnah then then can prevent heretic movements who spread false religions such as worship of graves, worship of pirs, practice of magic and similar un-Islamic practices.

However, if the Sufis are of the conservative orthodox types that do not engage in these heresies, then there is no law that could prevent them from their activities.

[Mutakhasis]

Kaffir dont hate you for you, just hate your complete arrogance to life and others. You speak of domination of the world, yet your cant even sort your own angoor adda out.

Poor child, you don't seem to perceive reality too well, the kuffar openly admit, from politicians to businessmen, that they are fighting to stop the Islaamic Caliphate, arrogance or not, Islaam will eventually be the ruling system of the World without endless borders

Kuffer are not terrified, if they was, they would have booted every muslim out by now, not just this, when the whole banning of the minoret in the Swizerland, it was so called Kaffirs who marched in protest of the banning, while your Muslim legionnaires were sun bathing in Sauadi Arabia with 40 wifes.

Same as above, and having a minaret is not important, a masjid doesn't have to have a minaret, that should be least of the concern

The whole dominating of Islam of the west, is just a political tool used by Anti Muslim forces to increase discrimination against Muslims and give excuses to others to bash and spread Islamophobic propaghanda.

Have you ever even touched the Qur'an my dear? In fact, only the pure can approach it so I don't expect you to, let me help you read it:

"It is He Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun hate it" [Surah at-Tawba 9:33]

You seem to be the only one that's not aware of this, how sad, even a kaafir knows more hahah

I am in utter laughter at Mukhakasis, The Muslim world is one of the worlds most poorest regions, Allah isnt just going to send a bolt of lightening in one day, and turn the muslim world into a developed,educated and progressive society, I find it very lazy of Madrassah students to promote such illogical turmoil by avoiding real issues, and replacing them with non sense such as Muslims with horses and swords will over run Western Tanks and survive a Nuclear bomb attack.

The Muslim world has one of the the highest GDP if you didn't know

And once again you should wake up from your dreamland, Western imperialists are the ones globalizing not only Muslim countries but also their own, they place dictators all around the world and through the criminal organization United Nations, they monopolize the world economy and political systems

Read John Perkins "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" where he provides the exploitation or neo-colonization of Third World countries

And his other book "The Secret History of the American Empire" more evidence of the negative impact of global corporations on the economies and ecologies of poor countries

All this information is in front of your eyes, for all the public to see and read

Why are the top 10 countries with the highest external national debt Western countries, USA and UK leading the way?

Always remmeber this Mukhakasis, America nuked Japan, alot of civilians died, what makes you think they wont nuke the Muslim world? what if they did? do you think your body will float in the air and be immune to poison radioactive material?

Kind Regards.

First train your mind to accept actuality, and than we will discuss into conjectural ideas

Kind Regards

[Mutakhasis]

This is Christianity:

"I'm going to create man and woman with original sin. Then I'm going to impregnate a woman with myself as her child, so that I can be born. Once alive, I will kill myself as a sacrifice to myself, to save you from the sin I originally condemned you to "

Now that makes perfect sense and should be preached!

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Poor child, you don't seem to perceive reality too well, the kuffar openly admit, from politicians to businessmen, that they are fighting to stop the Islaamic Caliphate, arrogance or not, Islaam will eventually be the ruling system of the World without endless borders




Same as above, and having a minaret is not important, a masjid doesn't have to have a minaret, that should be least of the concern




Have you ever even touched the Qur'an my dear? In fact, only the pure can approach it so I don't expect you to, let me help you read it:

"It is He Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun hate it" [Surah at-Tawba 9:33]

You seem to be the only one that's not aware of this, how sad, even a kaafir knows more hahah




The Muslim world has one of the the highest GDP if you didn't know

And once again you should wake up from your dreamland, Western imperialists are the ones globalizing not only Muslim countries but also their own, they place dictators all around the world and through the criminal organization United Nations, they monopolize the world economy and political systems

Read John Perkins "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" where he provides the exploitation or neo-colonization of Third World countries

And his other book "The Secret History of the American Empire" more evidence of the negative impact of global corporations on the economies and ecologies of poor countries

All this information is in front of your eyes, for all the public to see and read

Why are the top 10 countries with the highest external national debt Western countries, USA and UK leading the way?




First train your mind to accept actuality, and than we will discuss into conjectural ideas

Kind Regards

Well, If one british generals says that its against a Islamic Caliphate, and you being like most Muslims,easily misled by one chant of Allah Hu akber, dont understand the real facts, If it was to prevent a Islamic Caliphate by a bunch of Talibs, who cant even secure support from their own people without hanging bodys in Markets and Bazaars, then why did the so called non Muslim west, support these people, these so called bringers of the caliphate during the Soviet War? Why dont they ban these Wahabist Saudi funded Litrature being poured into the West, since it promotes a world caliphate?

I guess you are like many others, complete arrogant of reality and facts, You produce to me books written by so called Kaffirs then you avoid other books that explain how people such as you are produced to serve the interests of the West to prolong their stay on the so called Muslim lands, To be honest, America coudnt give a toss about Muslims nor Islam, they are there for political and regional interests.

Its truely sad you cant see this.

Always remmeber this, America has 10,000 nukes, Russia has 8000 nukes, what do Muslims have?

Kind Regards

[Muslimah]

This is Christianity:

"I'm going to create man and woman with original sin. Then I'm going to impregnate a woman with myself as her child, so that I can be born. Once alive, I will kill myself as a sacrifice to myself, to save you from the sin I originally condemned you to "

Now that makes perfect sense and should be preached!

Clearly - people can try to shove Christianity in my face, and I am smart enough to know its not right. I don't think you have to be rich or educated to realize this.

So even if they're preaching to uneducated, poor people in Afghanistan - which I don't think ANYBODY is agreeing with on PF, I would assume that as a human, and as a Muslim, none of us are stupid enough to convert to Christianity unless it is for a selfish reason.

I think this thread is unnecessary. I know we are all Muslims and happy to be. I think the difference is that some people feel we can't deny the inevitable. We live in a world with people of many cultures and religions. As much as we don't like other religions and them being in our face, we have to deal with it and put up with it. We can't deny this. Just as people in North America often dispise Muslims preaching their faith. SOME people are just saying there isn't much we can do to stop Christianity from being spread, just as Christians cannot stop us. But the important thing is this:

Islam is spreading rapidy and is taking over. Christianity is declining. This is FACT!

So, for every Muslim we may loose to Christianity, which is very, very rare in itself, we gain hundreds of Muslims.

Try to think positive, and stop denying the inevitable. We live in a shared world and by no means do we control everything. If you want to, why don't you go create a massive nuclear weapon and threaten to wipe out the whole world if they don't listen to you.