Is the Burqa a Arab Pagan Dress?

[Lemar]

I risked my life taking this picture for PF! woman wearing burqa in Herat!

[Feroza_Banu]

oh yeah... herat city is still way more conservative than Kabul.

[Lemar]

Yeah but Kabul is huge and the population is twice as much as Herat's!

[ScimitarXEdge]

About the source that claims pre-Islamic Arab Pagan women used to veil

I noticed that it lacks any actual reference to confirm it, no citations, no references, no page numbers.

All allude to the possibility that this in fact could be a forgery.



have a look.

[tor_khan]

The burqa for those versed in the Khaleej is the face mask that large numbers of Arab women *used* to wear when they had a nomadic lifestyle.

It is now largely symbolic and burqas are sold for a rather fetching price in some instances. There have been other more recent replacements - niqabs etc., but this is not universal and they too come in many stylised forms.

The abaya is now haute coutre in the UAE and Abaya Fashion is a big money spinner with many rich patrons in the Gulf and Muslim women lapping up Abaya fashion globally.

The chadiri/shuttlecock (known as the burqa as known by fans of CNN and Fox) is something else altogether.

Personally when it comes to veiling etc., let it be. Forced/Not forced/Ugly/Aesthetically Pleasing - we're not going to get this right. If people are happy, then why should we complain? And yes, veiling is pre-Islamic. Shock horror. It existed before and in-spite of Islam as well as within.

I've always believed (as a man trying to make sense of a modern joined-up world) that it doesn't matter if women choose to wear "modern" jeans, Ascot Hats, a nine-yard saree or an Eskimo Yashmak. Families are different - let people find their own equilibriums. Men have much more pressing things to worry about, and though we bury our Nang into a lot of this, quite honestly, we are often way too busy thinking that we've solved everything with our own skewed politics to be qualified commentators of women's fashion.

[ScimitarXEdge]

The question so much is not whether it existed prior to Islam, but whether the Islamic Custom is derived on Pagan ideals or fully grounded in Islamic ones.

The information about this is often dubious, but it appears that the claim of veiling as a a standard social practice in Pagan Arabia is outweighed by information which demonstrates that it was not uncommon to see topless or nude women in Pagan Arabia, openly in the public.

[maneatinglizard]

According to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948)

That's all I had to read.

Thanks for proving how weak your mind is.

I asked for proof that free movement is a basic human right. Your "proof" consisted of the words of some Western commission.

So my question is simple: What makes the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights" universal and objective, and why have to chosen to accept this law instead of the Islamic law?

[kakargirl]

Burqa is a shame for a human being. You are putting on a coffin on a living human being. This is violation of the basic human right of free movement. With burqa no one can freely move. This makes the womenfolk unable to work, drive, see, walk, run, travel, read, pray, talk freely. Its one of the important cause of the waste of human resources. This makes 35 million Pashtun women just as redundant entities all the time laying at homes as out side they have to wear this monstrous dress.

Burka is not an original Pashtun dress.Pashtuns were not wearing before they were Muslims. Pashtuns are there for thousands of years but they are Muslims for 1500 years only. Even today Pashtun women are not wearing burqas in rural areas where they freely participate in economic an agricultural activities.

Burqa has nothing to do with Pashtun traditions. This is just the wrong application of a religious code on Pashtuns. Even Muslims through out the world dont wear it except in the Wahabi Saudi and few other places.Religion has nothing to do with dress otherwise all Muslims would wear exactly the same dress.

aww osho how caring you are that we can't move around freely i always thought it was hard to move and bend over in tight jeans and short skirts , but then again i wouldn't know i'v never worn the indecent clothing, i find it very easy to move in burqa i goto uni in one, i can easily run after my nephews and nieces, pick them up, i can see fine in it i can do everything just as a woman ,who dosnt wear it, again you enforce your liberation on us, as i said before the ones that want to wear will , and i will wear it no matter how many posts or debates are made, burqa will be there in the next 30 years even .

[kakargirl]

I risked my life taking this picture for PF! woman wearing burqa in Herat!

edris wror lol it seems as if the old man knew lol you took a pic of the women lol, you were very lucky you didn't get introuble lol

[Badlun]

The right of movement is universal as all of us have the right to move. Or Islam prohibits us to move!If one does not believe in the Universal human rights then at least can understand that movement is our right for both women and men.

Today is women day. Lets promise at least that we recognize woman is equal human being. And that 35 million Pashtuns women have the basic human rights as all humans have. The have the right to have their own source of income, free movement, can move around alone with out a male companion and that this menace of Burqa may not be imposed on them. They should have the same decent dress as women have at least in other Muslim countries like Turkey, Malysia or even the educated Tajiks or Punjabis.

[Badlun]

About the pagan issue is it not enough when the source quoted above refers
For example, the Roman African Christian Tertullian, writing in Chapter 17 of The Veiling of Virgins around 200 AD.

Here we have name of the author, name of the book and number of the chapter!

[shisha]

someone help me with my homeworkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!

[ScimitarXEdge]

Hmmmm When I was in Quetta one year, I saw many women in burqa around the markets; surprisingly enough, these women were also moving and apparently moving pretty fluidly. Much like our friend here I too believed that these women could not possibly have movement at all, and if they did they were probably walking around like the little Ghost characters in Pac-Man, like awkward penguins, bleeping around in disjointed leaps. I came to find however that they walked about fluidly, pacing about with ever fervent gusto.

Point being if we're going to argue against Burqa, something I personally do not favor, we can't do it using all these nonsensical false appeals like "universal right of movement" because if you ever see a woman in burqa, she moves ...perfectly fine. It's not even a heavy piece of cloth.

Any issue of the burqa must be addressed from the perspective of HEALTH and HEALTH only, because that is the ONLY ONE which has EVIDENCE based conclusions on the impact of practicing the burqa.

All other claims to put it frankly ...are TOTAL NONSENSE.

[Alchemist]

the inferences seems to be, that if a muslim man in afghanistan, sees a womans face, he will turn into a mad rapist or molester. this is very degrading assumpion about your men. the afghan men, who come to the west and see womens faces are not doing this or we would have heard about it.

ANY man that sees a woman's face may become infatuated with her...you don't need to exaggerate it to rape. Rape is a disguise for gratification by over powering...little boys get raped too but they don't dress provocatively.

This assumption is true for ALL men...more so for women.

Not just Afghan men, but indian and whites too in the west are always looking for temporary and immediate sexual gratification. The women in the west are stupid enough to consent to their own degradation. In fact, every weekend night western women dress like ****s and then willfully intoxicate themselves in order to loosen their inhibition and conscience at "bars" for the amusement of such men who do find pleasure in staring at women...


i bet more men stare at your butt than at your face... so before you even discuss the issue about face veils...figure out if this is what you want:

YouTube - Rear View Girls - Los Angeles

[Laila]

I risked my life taking this picture for PF! woman wearing burqa in Herat!

Wrora, i wanted to ask you......is there a different cultural diversity between Herat City and Kabul City or any other major city in Afghanistan? Do Heratis tend to be more moderate, liberal, conservative....overall as a general.

Because i have heard numerous time, the Dari is more like Irani Farsi, and there are some cultural aspects from Iran.

Hmmmm When I was in Quetta one year, I saw many women in burqa around the markets; surprisingly enough, these women were also moving and apparently moving pretty fluidly. Much like our friend here I too believed that these women could not possibly have movement at all, and if they did they were probably walking around like the little Ghost characters in Pac-Man, like awkward penguins, bleeping around in disjointed leaps. I came to find however that they walked about fluidly, pacing about with ever fervent gusto.

Point being if we're going to argue against Burqa, something I personally do not favor, we can't do it using all these nonsensical false appeals like "universal right of movement" because if you ever see a woman in burqa, she moves ...perfectly fine. It's not even a heavy piece of cloth.

Any issue of the burqa must be addressed from the perspective of HEALTH and HEALTH only, because that is the ONLY ONE which has EVIDENCE based conclusions on the impact of practicing the burqa.

All other claims to put it frankly ...are TOTAL NONSENSE.

The burqa is not hard to wear at all....in fact, a woman gets used to it in minutes.

I am one of those people, that as long as its not 'forced' by her own free will, then I am perfectly fine with it. Both my grandmothers wore burqa in Kabul during its 'modernization' era. My grandfathers never forced them to wear it, in fact, they wore it because they found comfort in wearing it.