Is the Burqa a Arab Pagan Dress?

[ScimitarXEdge]

anecdotes are not made up but have happened to someone. Like case reports in medicine. By themselves they could be random occurrences and do not constitute confirmed patterns for they may be random.
To make something up is a lie not an anecdote.
Belief on the other hand is an assumption, every one knows it is made up so it does not need to be called a lie, for it is what it is known to be, made up. So it is a belief that anyone can just make up. Anecdote has to happen, belief doesn't.
But that would be too inconvenient for you to bother with.

The problem with anecdotes is that they're merely short accounts of incidents, there's no prerequisite that it had to happen.
case reports are documented though; I would find it highly unsuitable for a doctor to compare agenda based anecdotes being passed as "truth" to documented cases reports which are recorded, verified and cataloged for everyone to be able to refer to.

hmmmmm but perhaps such people lie about their credentials as well?

Baygham I'd like to introduce to a new friend of yours; ...Anecdeotal Fallacy, Baygham , Baygham, Anecdotal Fallacy

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/volvofal.html

[Laila]

What are there like two threads about burqa?

[ScimitarXEdge]

This black and white, white slave master black slave, world is yours not mine. Never owned a black and never was a black. I am sorry you have been left out of the 'country club' except to clean the dishes but if that is what grandma did, there is no shame in it. My grandma told me of the hard times in the thirties when they buried the dead in 'poozi' as there was no money to buy a 'kaffan'.

The bottom line is, that was a different generation. Move on. There is a black president in your country, I am sure his grandma worked in a factory too, so what. Better than being a biatch in a harem and being traded every few years.

Well I'm happy for you Baygham, your chaploosi paid off, your persistence in felching every would be farangay has helped you moved up the ranks. I hope you didn't have to pull a Bibi Mubaraka visa' vis' Babur situation with "Tommy". Although That would explain why you ardently rationalize benamous customs . However, let's celebrate this momentous day, You're no longer merely chakar, you're HEAD chakar? It makes the sting of being known as simply a "chakar" a little more bearable. Maybe you too can be placed in some Symbolic yet equally impotent illusion of power like Chakar in Chief, Bibi Mu- Barak Obama; and hope that some day the delusion of an honorable existence through a dysfunctional degenerate culture, will infect other minds as well.

Who needs to be traded in harems, we have porn stars, models, pageant contestants, loose types who have all undergone the necessary frontal lobotomy to put themselves on the exchange, no more middle man. Heck, I'm sure you're anxious to give your very own "bibi mubaraka" into the mix as we speak.

[ScimitarXEdge]

^ma taa ta wanawayal... no za na pahegam che ta tsa waye

tanha da lewanitobi gada wada ghapegi la day tsakha zra di mah tangawa

[IamDZJ]

Starts banging the spoon against the plate***
SHEEN MOTAR PA SHAGO KI PAINCHAR DEY, MONG TA NAWEY RAKEY MAZDEGAR DEY.






i

[Baygham]

Well I'm happy for you Baygham, your chaploosi paid off, your persistence in felching every would be farangay has helped you moved up the ranks. I hope you didn't have to pull a Bibi Mubaraka visa' vis' Babur situation with "Tommy". Although That would explain why you ardently rationalize benamous customs . However, let's celebrate this momentous day, You're no longer merely chakar, you're HEAD chakar? It makes the sting of being known as simply a "chakar" a little more bearable. Maybe you too can be placed in some Symbolic yet equally impotent illusion of power like Chakar in Chief, Bibi Mu- Barak Obama; and hope that some day the delusion of an honorable existence through a dysfunctional degenerate culture, will infect other minds as well.

Who needs to be traded in harems, we have porn stars, models, pageant contestants, loose types who have all undergone the necessary frontal lobotomy to put themselves on the exchange, no more middle man. Heck, I'm sure you're anxious to give your very own "bibi mubaraka" into the mix as we speak.

I have no right to give or take any bibi, let alone a bibi mubarika, as I said I dont own other humans, that is slavery and ended in your country of birth a few centuries ago.
You are sensitized to a culture(western/american), it sure has its shortcomings, but what you feel is your experience. An anecdote, that is all. My experiences are not the same. I am not sensitized to the extend as you are. Yes it would hurt if my child grew up to be a porn star just like it would to see her in a bonded relationship as the third wife of a much older shiekh/amir. In either scenario the victim in my eyes may see themselves on top of the world and not feel or share the pain with me.

In the context of such difference, the question arises what constitutes a good common ground to allow us to live. Not live according to one set or another of sensitized individuals with anecdotal suffering. But one that is applicable to the most.

Lets strive to create such a place in watan. Why is that so painful and considered with such suspicion. I dont want to impose my anecdotal experience of suffering on you and dont want yours on me. Lets analyze our experiences one by one and go to one that has most utility and serves us (not some imaginary creation/belief/madeup unverifiable entity/or an outside colonial master).

[Baygham]

Starts banging the spoon against the plate***
SHEEN MOTAR PA SHAGO KI PAINCHAR DEY, MONG TA NAWEY RAKEY MAZDEGAR DEY.

i

Las ke me thelay dey dha ghurraski,
Aw sook ba wartha las ki


DZJ do you understand what he writes in pashto, what is that

tanha da lewanitobi gada wada ghapegi la day tsakha zra di mah tangawa

sa pa sar koona ii pooha shwi,

tanha (alone in urdu not pashto)da (him), lewanitobi (?lewantoob= madness, I dont think there is a word lewani-tobi, cant make a verb out of a noun like that in pashto) gada wada ghapegi (got that), and got the last part as well. But the sentence makes absolute no sense in pashto. Am I being too critical here or do they speak like that in some parts of pakhtunkhwa.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I have no right to give or take any bibi, let alone a bibi mubarika, as I said I dont own other humans, that is slavery and ended in your country of birth a few centuries ago.
You are sensitized to a culture(western/american), it sure has its shortcomings, but what you feel is your experience. An anecdote, that is all. My experiences are not the same. I am not sensitized to the extend as you are. Yes it would hurt if my child grew up to be a porn star just like it would to see her in a bonded relationship as the third wife of a much older shiekh/amir. In either scenario the victim in my eyes may see themselves on top of the world and not feel or share the pain with me.

In the context of such difference, the question arises what constitutes a good common ground to allow us to live. Not live according to one set or another of sensitized individuals with anecdotal suffering. But one that is applicable to the most. Hence why you don't really "need" to own a Bibi Mubaraka, she's already public domain, you can just be her "exchange handler".


Lets strive to create such a place in watan. Why is that so painful and considered with such suspicion. I dont want to impose my anecdotal experience of suffering on you and dont want yours on me. Lets analyze our experiences one by one and go to one that has most utility and serves us (not some imaginary creation/belief/madeup unverifiable entity/or an outside colonial master).

Of course slavery has ended; but somehow ragng fire exploitation and dysfunction of those times lingers on with more ferocity than ever before.. I mean Sure we have Bibi Mubarak Obama in office, a good symbolic figurehead leader give the illusion of equity, the masses stay gullible and pacified. However the Mamlouks at their worst prospered better than Barak at his best. Hence why you dont really need to officially own a Bibi Mubaraka; she's been taken off copy right and made public domain; she practically gives herself away, you can just call yourself her exchange handler from now on.

I'm at loss at what to say, The way you lateralize and equate measures of pain is extremely peculiar; One a state of self destruction, a distortion of the sexual instinct desecrating the womb, it's sanctity and defiling the reproductive faculty; the other just a long established variation on anthropological norms for maintaining that faculty; in fact it was one which propelled our evolution and perpetuity in this ecosystem. Yet both equate to the same pain for you. Are you ill Baygham, a little crazy/ Has years of Pseudo-intellectual farangay gobbly goop been taken to heart? Learn to question. And by question I don't mean snotty remarks against Islam because it doesnt "fit" in some degenerate culture's warped hegemony which you've taken to define some deranged standard of "progress"; I mean question the idiotic zeitgeist who's mental hallucination you're under.

Even stranger is how you call these diseases that practically define the culture as mere "short comings", as if they were tantamount to someone spilling coffee on the new rug. And on a side note, I do anticipate your Oh so generic default reaction of "if you're so against it ..why do you live here?" response; please don't disappoint me. Being late for work is a short coming, missing your dentist appointment is a short coming. Calling such a way of life a "short coming" is like calling Cancer a paper cut or AIDS a dander allergy.


There's reasons why we don't nor should never have to take such a framework of life back to "Watan". This doesn't mean "Watan" doesn't have problems; but that these are not the solutions to "Watan's" Problems. This culture is slavery, but it's a more strategic variety of slavery.It's the result of the worst type of slavery of all, mental slavery, the elephant in the room; the one that has made it so when they wave sh*t under your nose, and you actually believe them when they say it's roses; that's why your "experience seems pleasant". This culture should not exist elsewhere, not even here, or anywhere on this planet; it is parasitic, and like most parasites plays a detrimental role to the ecosystem at large. That's what it really comes down to. Not some narrow one sided vision of "WATAAAAAN"

You live a lie; and your presence here is not so you can "wake everyone up" and "show us the light" ; but rather so you can keep feeding into that psychologically desperate need to justify buying into the lie wherever you can, an apparition (metaphorically) that haunts you to your grave. You're not hard to figure out, you're very typical. You're trying to convince yourself here, not us.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Las ke me thelay dey dha ghurraski,
Aw sook ba wartha las ki


DZJ do you understand what he writes in pashto, what is that sa pa sar koona ii pooha shwi,

tanha (alone in urdu not pashto)da (him), lewanitobi (?lewantoob= madness, I dont think there is a word lewani-tobi, cant make a verb out of a noun like that in pashto) gada wada ghapegi (got that), and got the last part as well. But the sentence makes absolute no sense in pashto. Am I being too critical here or do they speak like that in some parts of pakhtunkhwa.

aaaah well see I think I can answer why it seems unintelligible to you

....... I didn't add enough INDO-FIED Phonetics into my sentences; hold on let me fix that


tanha DHHHHAAAAA lewanitobi gaDHHHHAAA WADHAAA ghaFFFFFegi la DHAAI tsakha zra DHHEEE mah tangOOOO

there more comprehensible to you now?

Lewanitobi is an adverb, not a noun

Khudaya dase tanha na kawey tsok pe gham ki, laka ze da yaar pa gham ki yum tanha - Rahman Baba

you can wipe your self esteem from the floor now "Ma Khugo" saab

[Baygham]

Of course slavery has ended; but somehow ragng fire exploitation and dysfunction of those times lingers on with more ferocity than ever before.. I mean Sure we have Bibi Mubarak Obama in office, a good symbolic figurehead leader give the illusion of equity, the masses stay gullible and pacified. However the Mamlouks at their worst prospered better than Barak at his best. Hence why you dont really need to officially own a Bibi Mubaraka; she's been taken off copy right and made public domain; she practically gives herself away, you can just call yourself her exchange handler from now on.

I'm at loss at what to say, The way you lateralize and equate measures of pain is extremely peculiar; One a state of self destruction, a distortion of the sexual instinct desecrating the womb, it's sanctity and defiling the reproductive faculty; the other just a long established variation on anthropological norms for maintaining that faculty; in fact it was one which propelled our evolution and perpetuity in this ecosystem. Yet both equate to the same pain for you. Are you ill Baygham, a little crazy/ Has years of Pseudo-intellectual farangay gobbly goop been taken to heart? Learn to question. And by question I don't mean snotty remarks against Islam because it doesnt "fit" in some degenerate culture's warped hegemony which you've taken to define some deranged standard of "progress"; I mean question the idiotic zeitgeist who's mental hallucination you're under.

Even stranger is how you call these diseases that practically define the culture as mere "short comings", as if they were tantamount to someone spilling coffee on the new rug. And on a side note, I do anticipate your Oh so generic default reaction of "if you're so against it ..why do you live here?" response; please don't disappoint me. Being late for work is a short coming, missing your dentist appointment is a short coming. Calling such a way of life a "short coming" is like calling Cancer a paper cut or AIDS a dander allergy.


There's reasons why we don't nor should never have to take such a framework of life back to "Watan". This doesn't mean "Watan" doesn't have problems; but that these are not the solutions to "Watan's" Problems. This culture is slavery, but it's a more strategic variety of slavery.It's the result of the worst type of slavery of all, mental slavery, the elephant in the room; the one that has made it so when they wave sh*t under your nose, and you actually believe them when they say it's roses; that's why your "experience seems pleasant". This culture should not exist elsewhere, not even here, or anywhere on this planet; it is parasitic, and like most parasites plays a detrimental role to the ecosystem at large. That's what it really comes down to. Not some narrow one sided vision of "WATAAAAAN"

You live a lie; and your presence here is not so you can "wake everyone up" and "show us the light" ; but rather so you can keep feeding into that psychologically desperate need to justify buying into the lie wherever you can, an apparition (metaphorically) that haunts you to your grave. You're not hard to figure out, you're very typical. You're trying to convince yourself here, not us.

I dont disagree with any thing you said, nor am I blind to the rampant disillusion of modernity. I know about the Barack deception, not unlike the name khyber pakhtunkwha given to NWFP by the powers to be, like a bone to a dog, the chanting populace rejoiced and took a sugar coated version of the same poison pill. One that was passed on before under a different label. Every one knows that, that is not a new revelation.
I agree with the acute crystalline focus with which you have highlighted the shortcoming, or lets call them outrageous misgivings of western culture but Sir when you turn around and pass even worse garbage of misgivings, that I have lived and tasted first hand, as a panacea, a passion fruit of the soul as an answer to every eternal question ever asked, to anything and everything. Well then you have, pardon the colloquialism, just shot yourself in the foot.
If you choose to see the world, bare, pure, with all its ignominious dark tones, well sir you have to give up the shade of belief as well, not hide in one little corner and comment on the rest as 'out there'.

[IamDZJ]

to hell with both of you. i can't figure out what either one of you is saying.

[Alchemist]

alchemist, i have never been particularly body conscious and now i am 62 i am, due mainly to the problems that arise with it's not working as it once did. so your 'women like me' are not women like me.
what i think needs to be done is, that men all over the planet, need to work out their issues of needing to dominate, own, abuse and intimidate those who do not have their physical strength. if they have that particular mental/emotional defect.
one of the excuses men give for their aggression is, 'it is natural, we've always been like this'. well, if it is natural, why aren't all men like this. they aren't and i maintain that, the majority aren't, just like i will continue to maintain that the majority do not need to make their fantasies about women into a reality.
personally, i think the existence of pornography shows that there is definitely a major screw up (no pun intended) in the view of what sexuality is and the way of being sexual. i saw an article about pornography in america and apparently now, the men are wanting the women to perform in the same manner as they are used to seeing in the videos. the one example i viewed of a porn movie was soooo false and brash, that i hate to think where the overuse of this role model is leading the young.

I could have sworn that in another thread you said you were 45. But I guess that's something else about women...that their age is always a mystery.

Anyway...I don't know why you mention physical strength and then link it with aggression. Another great mythical belief about the genders is that men are more aggressive than women. These are baseless beliefs held from olden times and never has been questioned by the scientific mind...until a few decades ago when some psychology professors tried to study the types of aggression observed in children they found that girls are just as aggressive as boys. Of course when we are speaking of aggression we mean to speak of abuse...but here is the real question: does emotional pain hurt more than physical pain? Ah yes, women are aggressive but their type of aggression is classified as "social aggression" - I am sure even you know the art of gossiping. If men have their testosterone to blame what does the other kind have to blame? Even on this forum you can detect aggression in some innocent girls, venom deadly enough to put down an elephant.


Just food for thought / it is because of man's spirit to conquer Nature that we are where are today. So if you have something against that spirit, that men fight like bulls, why do women so badly aspire to the same male values? ...why do women have to join the army, play sports and enter boxing rings? Just rebelling?

Men have flaws, but our physical strength isn't one of them. We build tools so that even women could hunt if they had to...so it's not like there is a male conspiracy to keep women "enslaved" to us out of necessity or need. If anything, our tools have feminized men and most have lost their physical strength having bellies that could fit four babies. In that respect, women have some excuse for not finding "the right man".

So faye, given then fact that you are older than my father, I'll try to be less critical of your archaic beliefs...my interest is only to demythologize the young so they don't repeat the mistakes of the old.

Salam

[Alchemist]

What about the heath issue already referred to?

Enveloping outer garments, such as the burqa, are believed to cause or worsen medical conditions in some individuals.In particular, they contribute to a predisposition for hypovitaminosis D, which can lead to rickets or osteoporosis and may increase the risk of seizures in infants born to affected mothers.
Burqa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dubitsky, Stephanie. "The Health Care Crisis Facing Women Under Taliban Rule in Afghanistan". Washington College of Law. American University. Retrieved 2010-09-15. "Furthermore, the mandatory act of wearing burqas itself causes health risks. They are so heavy and enveloping that they restrict women's activities by making it difficult for them to move. The simple act of walking outside becomes hazardous because the mesh opening severely restricts women's field of vision and they are unable to see their path clearly. In addition, burqas are linked to hearing loss, skin problems, headaches, cardiac disorder, asthma, and also can contribute to mental health problems."

Stuijt, Adriana (2009-05-08). "Women could endanger their health by wearing burqas". Digital Journal. Retrieved 2010-09-15. ""In Ireland, which is experiencing a large influx of muslim immigrants at the moment, women wearing the burqa, doctors are warning, 'are at increased risk of pelvic fractures during childbirth because of vitamin D deficiency due to a lack of sunlight. "And babies born to women with vitamin D deficiency are also more prone to seizures in their first week of life," according to Dr Miriam Casey, expert in Medicine for the Elderly at the Osteoporosis Unit in St James’s hospital in Dublin. The burqa - an all-enveloping outer garment, does not allow enough sunlight through to give women sufficient vitamin D, she warns."

Douglas, David (2007-06-25). "Middle Eastern women may have vitamin D deficiency". Reuters. Retrieved 2010-09-15.

Bandgar, TR; NS Shah. "Vitamin D and Hip Fractures: Indian Scenario". Journal of the Association of Physicians of India 58 (September 2010). Retrieved 2010-09-15. "Social and religious customs that require people to wear concealing clothing, veiling and traditional attire, such as the ‘‘Burqa’’, ‘‘salvar kameez’’ and sari significantly prevents sun exposure.".
Keim, Brandon (2007-06-26). "Could Dressing Conservatively Make Muslim Women Sick?". Wired. Retrieved 2010-09-15.

you only need 10 minutes of sunlight a day to get all your necessary vit D.

Also your hands and your face are most absorbent of sun light.

I could easily quote you science journals ...but seeing as to how you rely on WIRED, REUTER and wikipedia, you probably lack the scientific background to understand them...

adios weirdo

[Alchemist]

to hell with both of you. i can't figure out what either one of you is saying.

evidently you ain't smoking that La LaLa

[Alchemist]

huh??