Is the Burqa a Arab Pagan Dress?

[Laila]

and to laila i have family in kabul i have seen it a few years i just dont plaster things all over the forum, now this is my last post im leaving for good dance both you run the forum do what you please the royal pain is out .

Honey majority of my family resides in Kabul. I think i know what i am talking about. My father and mother were raised in Kabul. I never said you were plastering, i was clearing up the misconception about Kabul. I just feel that you make it seem as if that Pashtuns from Helmand/Kandahar are the only ones that wear chadari, where in fact, its not true at all. If you want, i can give you sources.

If you felt I insulted you in anyway, i didnt mean to at all....in fact i dont think i sounded like i was. But, i do apologize. But i feel insulted by some of your post because you make it seem as if just because you are wearing a burqa that shows you keeping up with your Pashtun culture, while us other Pashtun girls are running around in 'Western clothing' and have forgotten where we are from??? while its not true.

I dont want you to leave. So you wont be seeing me dancing around......royal pain of what?

[unknownprince]

i never spoke ill of kabul and people like you i dont give crap about , but when it comes to my ancestory i wont stand by and listen i'm more patriotic towards afghanistan so dont twist words and make lies up . and to laila i have family in kabul i have seen it a few years i just dont plaster things all over the forum, now this is my last post im leaving for good dance both you run the forum do what you please the royal pain is out .

kakargirl khorey, just ignore her.

dont leave for these people. just post when you can.

the royal families of Afghanistan have played a role in protecting all Afghans, not just Pashtuns. Anyone who has issues with them must be either NA or a Dostum type person.

[unknownprince]

i notice that conservative pashtanas seem to be scoffed at.

[emkhan]

I think burqa is need of the day ... west has degraded the woman so much that woman feels protection in modesty in burqa. Burqa is the best dress for a modest and thoughtful woman otherwise you can wear even nothing ... hehehe

[faye]

the men too were naked, a one big naked orgy tawaf, allah is great. actually the god they prayed to was also called allah - the arab moon god.

as far as covering oneself, even the hindu nobility had to cover itself. The peasants on the other hand, well that is another story.

nakedness does not necessarily equate to orgies all over the place.

[graveyardofempires]

Or he could thank Indians

thank you chaudary saab

[Wrayun]

nakedness does not necessarily equate to orgies all over the place.

Unfortunately you are dealing with an secularist atheist who doesn't quite understand what he always tries so hard to represent. No matter how much you expose his lies i.e Allah = moon god, he keeps repeating his nonsense over 'n over again. You realize that people like him are inherently blind and arrogant due to false pride and false sense of victimization. No Arab raped his grandma, or grand dad, neither did any Arab molest him. Most likely his grand dad, as an Islamic expansionist raped the locals of the region where his tribe now resides. Yet, this descendant of the holy Muslim warriors who chased pagan Hindu goppies across the Indus all the way up to Bihar, today feels it necessary to present himself as a victim.

[faye]

wrayan, not sure about all of that but i also read that 'allah' was a name for god used by pagans.

[Baygham]

Unfortunately you are dealing with an secularist atheist who doesn't quite understand what he always tries so hard to represent. No matter how much you expose his lies i.e Allah = moon god, he keeps repeating his nonsense over 'n over again. You realize that people like him are inherently blind and arrogant due to false pride and false sense of victimization. No Arab raped his grandma, or grand dad, neither did any Arab molest him. Most likely his grand dad, as an Islamic expansionist raped the locals of the region where his tribe now resides. Yet, this descendant of the holy Muslim warriors who chased pagan Hindu goppies across the Indus all the way up to Bihar, today feels it necessary to present himself as a victim.

Grandpa raped and pillaged for his own "wahshath" not for arabian moon god, but when asked and cornered, the moon god was a handy alibi.

And his story repeats over and over even to this day.

Hey wrayun, since you are a "khariji/bay-deen" now as well, tell me one thing, now that this arab awakening is going on, and this damn secular poison spreads to hijaz and your wahabi gods collapse in makkah/madina and the faithful start kissing and worshiping mohammads grave again; the punjabis will start singing 'GURU NANAK DEV JI" like fatah ali khan, aw kabbah rabandi badala ki; then what will the pashtoon do, zamoonga khu 'GURU NANAK DEV JI" hum nishta, munga ba sa kaw.

[Wrayun]

wrayan, not sure about all of that but i also read that 'allah' was a name for god used by pagans.

That's nonsense. Allah was the name of the Creator God, the Master of all the god's in Mecca. There was no idol associated with Allah. The Jews and Christians amongst Arabs, who predate Muslims, used and still use Allah to denote "the One and Only true" God. Why would they, who predate Muslims/Islam, use the title of the moon god for their monotheistic Creator?

Allah in Arabic, Alaha in Aramiac, and Eloh in Hebrew, means "the GOD". All these words come from the same root, and mean the exact same thing.

The moon god was called Hubal, and the idol of Hubal was smashed with the rest of the 360 gods in Mecca.

Hubal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The moon and crescent associated with Islam today doesn't represents the worship of Hubal. This symbol, which is today associated with Muslims/Islam, was first adopted by the Ismaili Fatimad Caliph, who were influenced by occult leaders associated with Harran, city of the moon god, Sin. Sin's daughter, is represented by a star, Ishtar/Venus. This is a political symbol, not religious one.

[Wrayun]

Grandpa raped and pillaged for his own "wahshath" not for arabian moon god, but when asked and cornered, the moon god was a handy alibi.

And his story repeats over and over even to this day.

Hey wrayun, since you are a "khariji/bay-deen" now as well, tell me one thing, now that this arab awakening is going on, and this damn secular poison spreads to hijaz and your wahabi gods collapse in makkah/madina and the faithful start kissing and worshiping mohammads grave again; the punjabis will start singing 'GURU NANAK DEV JI" like fatah ali khan, aw kabbah rabandi badala ki; then what will the pashtoon do, zamoonga khu 'GURU NANAK DEV JI" hum nishta, munga ba sa kaw.

My wahabi gods? lolllll Baygham saib, are you off your medication?

I hope democracy comes to all of the Middle East, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the vast majority of the Muslim world. You are a fool, what you see in the Middle East has nothing to do with secularism. Mubarak was secular, Ben Ali was secular, Gadafi is secular, the Syrian and Jordanian leaders are all secular. These people suppressed religion. Even that stooge Gadafi is blaming religion and Osama for his troubles, just like George W. Bush.

It is not the secular poison that is spreading, it is something else. Continue with your head in the sand buddy. Just watch as things unravel.

Democracy = Majority Will = Majority = Muslims = Muslim Will = Islam. It is inevitable.

The Wahabis, and their secular pro-democracy friends are crapping their pants. This is why all the chickens, Ben Ali and Mubarak, have gone home to roost, Saudi Arabia.

Get things in perspective. Lay off the CNN smoke screen.

[Wrayun]

As for Burkha, whether it is Arab, or Pagan, who cares? It is now part of Pukhtoon culture, and Pukhtoonwale. I dare any Pukhtoon, with the purest of blood, to try to remove it from Pukhtoon society. All this barking over the internet is useless, when ground reality is completely different.

It is part of Pukhtoon society, and it represents a purpose, which is justified in many cases due to lack of centralized security and governance. Once Pukhtoon areas are secured, there is centralized authority, the purpose of such extreme purdah will vanish.

Burkha was originally worn only by the elite and upper class women. When the average person inquired why the women of the elite are covered, the women of religious leaders, political leaders, kings and khans, they too started forcing their women to wear it.

The word chadri is Persian, and mostly used by Persians to refer to Burkha. Pukhtoons use Burkha, whether the word is Arabic or not, don't know.

Chador/Chadar is just a clock, and doesn't have face covering.

Chador - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The blue covering with face masks are burkhas/burkas. They are technically not chador/chadri.

[faye]

wrayan, i said nothing about the moon god. try googling 'pagan origin of word allah'

[Alchemist]

Some people always wonder the origins of the veil. Is is a Islamic dress or is it a dress used by Arab bediuon Women in Arabia?.

Well, the veilling of women is a Arab pagan dress, Arab pagans dressed their women in burqas way before Islam was ever created.

Take this quate for example:-

Roman African Christian Tertullian, writing in Chapter 17 of The Veiling of Virgins around 200 AD,
praises the modesty of those "pagan women of Arabia" who "not only cover their head, but their whole face...preferring to enjoy
half the light with one eye rather than prostituting their whole face."

Remmeber this was written in 200AD, so supporters and promotors of the Burqa, do not get excited because mankind during that period of time was very much different than now.

So, does this mean Islam has aspects of Arab Paganism? If so, why do Muslims promote this sense of happiness of leaving Paganism, but on one hand still keep hold onto some traditions of Pagans, that being veiling themselves?

It's ironic that you ask the question based on a fraction of quote, when the entire quote has the answer.

In the translation I found it isn't "pagan" but "heathen" and christain's consider jews as heathens also...and back then there were jews in Arabia...a lot.

Secondly the priest is saying that that though the heathens are barbaric, Nature has brought them to do what is "intrinsically" good because the truth shall prevail. So you are taking it totally the opposite way, and are mistaking chronology for causation. Just because you think A preceded B doesn't mean that A caused B...and like the author makes clear in chapter, third line..."it defies time and space"...so you've just jumped the gun and made your own haphazard conclusions and thus posted a loaded question...obviously osho likes those types of fallacies because he relies on simple heuristics for basing his judgment.

Chapter XVI. Tertullian, Having Shown His Defence to Be Consistent with Scripture, Nature, and Discipline, Appeals to the Virgins Themselves.

Herein consists the defence of our opinion, in accordance with Scripture, in accordance with Nature, in accordance with Discipline. Scripture founds the law; Nature joins to attest it; Discipline exacts it. Which of these (three) does a custom rounded on (mere) opinion appear in behalf of? or what is the colour of the opposite view? God's is Scripture; God's is Nature; God's is Discipline. Whatever is contrary to these is not God's. If Scripture is uncertain, Nature is manifest; and concerning Nature's testimony Scripture cannot be uncertain. [329] If there is a doubt about Nature, Discipline points out what is more sanctioned by God. For nothing is to Him dearer than humility; nothing more acceptable than modesty; nothing more offensive than "glory" and the study of men-pleasing. Let that, accordingly, be to you Scripture, and Nature, and Discipline, which you shall find to have been sanctioned by God; just as you are bidden to "examine all things, and diligently follow whatever is better." [330] It remains likewise that we turn to (the virgins) themselves, to induce them to accept these (suggestions) the more willingly. I pray you, be you mother, or sister, or virgin-daughter'let me address you according to the names proper to your years'veil your head: if a mother, for your sons' sakes; if a sister, for your brethren's sakes; if a daughter for your fathers' sakes. All ages are perilled in your person. Put on the panoply of modesty; surround yourself with the stockade of bashfulness; rear a rampart for your sex, which must neither allow your own eyes egress nor ingress to other people's. Wear the full garb of woman, to preserve the standing of virgin. Belie somewhat of your inward consciousness, in order to exhibit the truth to God alone. And yet you do not belie yourself in appearing as a bride. For wedded you are to Christ: to Him you have surrendered your flesh; to Him you have espoused your maturity. Walk in accordance with the will of your Espoused. Christ is He who bids the espoused and wives of others Veil themselves; [331] (and,) of course, ranch more His own.

Chapter XVII. An Appeal to the Married Women.

But we admonish you, too, women of the second (degree of) modesty, who have fallen into wedlock, not to outgrow so far the discipline of the veil, not even in a moment of an hour, as, because you cannot refuse it, to take some other means to nullify it, by going neither covered nor bare. For some, with their turbans and woollen bands, do not veil their head, but bind it up; protected, indeed, in front, but, where the head properly lies, bare. Others are to a certain extent covered over the region of the brain with linen coifs of small dimensions'I suppose for fear of pressing the head'and not reaching quite to the ears. If they are so weak in their hearing as not to be able to hear through a covering, I pity them. Let them know that the whole head constitutes "the woman." [332] Its limits and boundaries reach as far as the place where the robe begins. The region of the veil is co-extensive with the space covered by the hair when unbound; in order that the necks too may be encircled. For it is they which must be subjected, for the sake of which "power" ought to be "had on the head: "the veil is their yoke. Arabia's heathen females will be your judges, who cover not only the head, but the face also, so entirely, that they are content, with one eye free, to enjoy rather half the light than to prostitute the entire face. A female would rather see than be seen. And for this reason a certain Roman queen said that they were most unhappy, in that they could more easily fall in love than be fallen in love with; whereas they are rather happy, in their immunity from that second (and indeed more frequent) infelicity, that females are more apt to be fallen in love with than to fall in love. And the modesty of heathen discipline, indeed, is more simple, and, so to say, more barbaric. To us the Lord has, even by revelations, measured the space for the veil to extend over. For a certain sister of ours was thus addressed by an angel, beating her neck, as if in applause: "Elegant neck, and deservedly bare! it is well for thee to unveil thyself from the head fight down to the loins, lest withal this freedom of thy neck profit thee not!" And, of course, what you have said to one you have said to all. But how severe a chastisement will they likewise deserve, who, amid (the recital of) the Psalms, and at any mention of (the name of) God, continue uncovered; (who) even when about to spend time in prayer itself, with the utmost readiness place a fringe, or a tuft, or any thread whatever, on the crown of their heads, and suppose themselves to be covered? Of so small extent do they falsely imagine their head to be! Others, who think the palm of their hand plainly greater than any fringe or thread, misuse their head no less; like a certain (creature), more beast than bird, albeit winged, with small head, long legs, and moreover of erect carriage. She, they say, when she has to hide, thrusts away into a thicket her head alone'plainly the whole of it, (though)'leaving all the rest of herself exposed. Thus, while she is secure in head, (but) bare in her larger pans, she is taken wholly, head and all. Such will be their plight withal, covered as they are less than is useful.

interesting read though ...thanks for sharing.

[Alchemist]

wrayan, i said nothing about the moon god. try googling 'pagan origin of word allah'

Illah means God

Allah literally means The God.

Even pagan mythologies and various mysterious ultimately believe in a Supreme God. Because if it were true for them that the gods were of equal power then the world would have no order but be in total chaotic flux without space time continuum...


so you'd like to think that monotheism came from polytheism but we believe that all religions began with belief in One God until each was corrupted by the devil...Christianity being the most recent example. If you study it's history, you will find that most catholic rituals and symbols have very strong pagan influence..in most cases, like baptisim, they are exactly like the old religions of then, like Mitra. Westerners habitually transpose christain history unto Islam without even checking the records because they are so sure that all religions have the same fate. This is because they believe in their own myths about the history of this planet...which is shrouded in absolute mystery...but you'd think that we are the most advanced generation of the entire human history so naturally you'd take this logic backwards and suppose that religion is actually evolving in a progressive and linear fashion from A to B to C to D...this is how your mind words but not how things come to be in reality.