Is the Burqa a Arab Pagan Dress?

[roadrunner]

Scimitar,

Those two references do not prove a thing. Getting in a discussion with you is pointless since you provide pointless posts, and then say solid (primary) references are negated.

For example, "circumambulating the Ka'ba" does not equal "the pagan women of Arabia", a generic term for how pre-Islamic Arabic women dressed.

Carry on quoting that as a "negation". It's a mindnumbingly irrelevant reply.

[ScimitarXEdge]

They prove that women were not veiling in Pre-Islamic Arabia. Apparently you missed the "Naked", part and the part where it says, not to mention the part where "when the verse was revealed and "came out as if they had crows on their heads"

yep that settles it; Pashtuns adopted veiling while adopting Islam.

[roadrunner]

when i was researching about the veil and burkha, somewher back around the middle ages or before, it was the prostitutes that had to cover their faces.

Different societies may have used the veil in different ways.

But the veil goes back long before Islam, and is not a traditional Pashtun dress.

[ScimitarXEdge]

If you want to get technical road runner; wearing cloths is not traditional for humans if we want to go back 400,000 years.

But as far back as we have evidence of Pashto we have evidence of veiling. Hence it has been a Pashtun tradition at least since the Islamic Times.

No record of Pashto or Pashtuns BY NAME or tribal reference exists before Islamic times so we know that any reference of Pashtuns corresponds to Islamic Veiling.

[faye]

that is a shame scimitarx. to not have a record going further back. not even from crafts and statues or murals?

[roadrunner]

to not have a record going further back. not even from crafts and statues or murals?

There's many statues from the 1st century AD of Pashtun women without a veil.

That is because it's not tradition for Pashtun women to veil.

[ScimitarXEdge]

that is a shame scimitarx. to not have a record going further back. not even from crafts and stues or murals?

Faye; there are some ALLEGED records; like certain words or names which kind of sound like "Pakhto" but not really the same. There's also reference to "Afghan" but the word Afghan is a foreign word, it's not native to the Pashto language, so it's speculative that when Afghan was said in the 10th century that it meant the same thing it meant in the 15th. There's another reference in which chroniclers spoke of a language which was "not intelligible to farsi speakers" this may HINT at Pashto, but it's not conclusive.

but yes there is actually no solid concrete examples of Pashto language prior to the 1400's

I dont know if it's sad, it just means it's more than likely that Pashtuns just evolved from other groups when they mingled together.

[faye]

once again, roadrunner, i give you 10 out of 10 for persistence.

[ScimitarXEdge]

There's many statues from the 1st century AD of Pashtun women without a veil.

That is because it's not tradition for Pashtun women to veil.

No there isn't because there's no evidence that those women in the statues were in fact Pashtuns or some other ethnicity; and furthermore the languages found in those relics is not Pashto.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I would like to see if Road runner can show that the women in the statues he's referring to spoke Pashto; and explain why the inscriptions in those relics is not in Pashto.

[roadrunner]

If you can't understand that circumambulating the Ka'ba is not the same as a generic reference to Pagan women of Arabia, then there's no way you have the mental capacity to understand how a statue refers to Pashtun women.

And I'm not interested in explaining it to you to be honest. You're too stuck in your Arab ways.

[faye]

i agree. i saw the statue and thought the same. i would have expected the muslims to be great record keepers though.
i read in one excert that 'afghan' referred to pashtun people.

[roadrunner]

once again, roadrunner, i give you 10 out of 10 for persistence.

Doesn't take too long anyway.

[roadrunner]

i agree. i saw the statue and thought the same. i would have expected the muslims to be great record keepers though.
i read in one excert that 'afghan' referred to pashtun people.

True. Afghan was the name given to Pashtun people. Pashtuns have been known by various names throughout history.

Much of Pashtun history is lost, Faye. Part of the reason for this, is in modern times, there's the Mullah lot who say Afghan history began in the 9th century when Islam was introduced into the area by the Arabs.

Pashtun history is a lot older than that.

However it is possible to piece it together. Like an archeologist.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Roadrunner, the problem here is, you don't understand what naked means, you also don't understand what "tearing off their a piece of their garment and coming out as if they have crows on their heads" means. If Veiling was the norm, women wouldn't be seen naked or have to suddenly tear off a piece of cloth to cover themselves in. when a verse about veiling is revealed.


No matter how hard you try, those two references (even though there's quite a few more than that) stand in the way