Pakistan Census 2017 (pashtun Population)

[toughpashtun]

Then simply dont attack Pakistan and its Baba-i-qaum next time if you do not want to come across as demeaning to Pakistanis.

If you have problem with Pakistani government then you also have problem with Pakistani people who have elected it.

Baba e Qaum is another issue , but the Pakistanis themselves are never happy with whichever government is in power.

[Traveller]

[MENTION=19985]maneatinglizard[/MENTION] [MENTION=12154]toughpashtun[/MENTION]
سمندري ټوکې کوي.

[Samandri]

Baba e Qaum is another issue , but the Pakistanis themselves are never happy with whichever government is in power.

You and i criticize our governments , expect performance and betterment from it because we are Pakistani nationals and we live in this country. The government directly affect our lives.. Maneatinglizard , the American national of Afghanistan roots, on the other hand is a foreigner. He hates the fact that Pakistani government is incompetent, which does not make any sense as he is not a Pakistani. Why degeneration of Pakistani government is troubling him?. He is insisting that he has no other beef with Pakistan and its people. After harsh remarks against Jinnah and Pakistani government, he strongly reminds us that he does not mean to offend Pakistanis (he does this in every second post). Why it should not offend Pakistanis?. Crores of Pakistanis admire Jinnah baba and insulting him will offend those millions of Jinnah-parast Pakistanis. Insulting Pakistani government will definitely offend those millions of PML-N supporters among Pakistanis. So if an American is so careful and sensitive that he does not want to come across as demeaning to Pakistanis , he should simply refrain from passing derogatory remarks about its founder and its government.

[maneatinglizard]

That was a bit of an exaggeration. I just learned how to use a few. The reason I didn't learn before is that people in my family are extremely clean-mouthed. The worst I have ever heard is khar bachay.

You hail from a Akhund family, right? The only Pashtuns I've met that don't use bad language are a family of Akhundzadahs from Kandahar. Otherwise, I've even heard Pashtun alims use some colorful language lol.

A lot of people on the internet get surprised when they find out I'm a teenager.
As for my Pashto there are several reasons it got to the place where it is now:
1) I've visited Pakistan every year of my life which ensured that English didn't take over my Pashto too much.
2) I am a student of Arabic and studying Arabic grammar helped me understand how Pashto was supposed to work.
3) Starting about a year ago I began to slowly learn how to read and write Pashto. A few months ago I mastered it with the help of a book my uncle(who has a B.A. in Pashto) gave me called پښتوښود. It was written by a Wardak guy but I can't recall his full name. Learning to read and write really helped polish my language.
4) Every time I come across a word I don't know in writing or speech I search it up on the Pashto.com(Allah bless Moxet Khan for making that website). This has helped me purify my Pashto a ton.

Visiting Pakistan/Afghanistan so often must be awesome. I've only been to Pakistan once, and never to Afghanistan unfortunately. Inshallah I want to start going more often.

How long have you been studying Arabic? I studied it for a long time (most of it not seriously), but I'm very out of practice right now.

Is that book available on the Net? A Google search didn't turn anything up for me.

[MENTION=19985]maneatinglizard[/MENTION] [MENTION=12154]toughpashtun[/MENTION]
سمندري ټوکې کوي.

Honestly, it kinda seems to me like I struck a nerve, but he's trying to hide it with sarcasm and jokes.

[MENTION=18842]Samandri[/MENTION], lay off the chars.

[Traveller]

You hail from a Akhund family, right? The only Pashtuns I've met that don't use bad language are a family of Akhundzadahs from Kandahar. Otherwise, I've even heard Pashtun alims use some colorful language lol.



Visiting Pakistan/Afghanistan so often must be awesome. I've only been to Pakistan once, and never to Afghanistan unfortunately. Inshallah I want to start going more often.

How long have you been studying Arabic? I studied it for a long time (most of it not seriously), but I'm very out of practice right now.

Is that book available on the Net? A Google search didn't turn anything up for me.



Honestly, it kinda seems to me like I struck a nerve, but he's trying to hide it with sarcasm and jokes.

[MENTION=18842]Samandri[/MENTION], lay off the chars.

I think the Akhund thing has a lot to do with it. We have non-Pashtun(Turkic to be specific) lineage so we don't have a lot of the "pure" Pashtun traits.
You should definitely go more often. Visiting your homeland and making connections with your family is very important.
I started(seriously)learning Arabic two-three years ago although I feel like I haven't been making a lot of progress the last year and a half. My goal by the end of this school year is to be able to read basic Arabic texts. Right now my Arabic is pretty decent for a non-Arab(The arabs at my masjid get impressed that a Pakistani kid can speak Arabic as well as I do) but it's still broken and I often find myself not being able to fully express my thoughts. The main resource I'm using is Bayyinah TV but I'm also studying Quranic Arabic vocabulary.
The Pashto book is extremely rare and out of print. My uncle had to give me a photocopy.

[toughpashtun]

You and i criticize our governments , expect performance and betterment from it because we are Pakistani nationals and we live in this country. The government directly affect our lives.. Maneatinglizard , the American national of Afghanistan roots, on the other hand is a foreigner. He hates the fact that Pakistani government is incompetent, which does not make any sense as he is not a Pakistani. Why degeneration of Pakistani government is troubling him?. He is insisting that he has no other beef with Pakistan and its people. After harsh remarks against Jinnah and Pakistani government, he strongly reminds us that he does not mean to offend Pakistanis (he does this in every second post). Why it should not offend Pakistanis?. Crores of Pakistanis admire Jinnah baba and insulting him will offend those millions of Jinnah-parast Pakistanis. Insulting Pakistani government will definitely offend those millions of PML-N supporters among Pakistanis. So if an American is so careful and sensitive that he does not want to come across as demeaning to Pakistanis , he should simply refrain from passing derogatory remarks about its founder and its government.

Baba e Qaum (Quaid e Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah) is a figure that is deeply respected by nearly everyone in Pakistan , so I repeat what I said before that any insult to Jinnah will be offensive to a Pakistani.
As far as govt. is concerned , you do have a point to some extent (logically) but I still do not completely agree with you.Anyway , just let it be.

[TaRzAn kHaN]

Pakistan was created by a Westernized Ismaili Indian with little input from its Pashtun population, who were fooled and lied to by Jinnah when he claimed that they'd preserve their autonomy. Pakistan continues to mistreat large portions of its Pashtun population, and sees them as outsiders rather than citizens.

But what would you expect from a guy who thinks his Pakistani-ism is more important than his Islam? Who knows if you're actually a Pashtun or not, it's not that important when you're a brainwashed nationalist in any case.

Your nationalism is accepted, our nationalism is fake. You aren't considered a brainwashed sick, but we are considered. Great justice! WOW

[maneatinglizard]

Your nationalism is accepted, our nationalism is fake. You aren't considered a brainwashed sick, but we are considered. Great justice! WOW

Where did you get the impression that I'm a nationalist?

Every nationalism is stupid. Feeling proud because some random elites rule over the land you inhabit without you having anything to do with who those elites are, or where that land is, is among the worst aspects of modern human culture. In reality it's just a stupid form of social control Europe adopted to control their populations after urbanization, industrialization, and other forms of modernization began to loosen the effects of traditional communal bonds like religion or ethnicity.

Thinking you're better or different than someone else because of who issued your passport is one of the dumbest ideas humanity ever came up with. I look forward to the day that it's thrown into the trash heap of failed ideas like human sacrifice and eugenics Inshallah.

[Kaushika]

If anything with help of time, most of Desis of eastern pakistan will slowly desify iranic pashtuns both genetically and cultureally.

One language - Urdu
One religion - Islam
And one perople - Desified Pakistanis.

[salman47]

Baba e Qaum (Quaid e Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah) is a figure that is deeply respected by nearly everyone in Pakistan , so I repeat what I said before that any insult to Jinnah will be offensive to a Pakistani.
As far as govt. is concerned , you do have a point to some extent (logically) but I still do not completely agree with you.Anyway , just let it be.

Some of our (non-military)masharan do insult him though!!

P.S. One of them made a funny parody on the National Anthem(i forgot but regardless).

[Traveller]

Some of our (non-military)masharan do insult him though!!

P.S. One of them made a funny parody on the National Anthem(i forgot but regardless).

This was probably in Afghanistan. I can't see a Pakistani Pashtun doing something like this.

[maneatinglizard]

This was probably in Afghanistan. I can't see a Pakistani Pashtun doing something like this.

The one Pakistani Pashtun I know used to make fun of Pakistan all the time. I can't remember if he ever outright made fun of Jinnah, but he was a hardcore Wahabi so I doubt he had much respect for him either way. And aren't there still separatist Pakistani Pashtuns? Would they still feel bad to hear disrespect for the flag/anthem/Jinnah?

Regardless, we need to stop being brainwashed by nationalist rhetoric. It always amazes me that even very religious Turkish people are afraid to say anything bad about Ataturk, even though he was a blaspheming kaffir who disrespected Islam and ended the Khilafa. While they may not be as bad as Ataturk, the love Pakistanis have for Jinnah, or Afghans have for the beghairat Amanallah Khan, is totally unwarranted and people should resist the attempts at deifying them by nationalist propagandists. They were just people, and, despite the accomplishments they may have made that are worth praising, weren't very good people, and certainly not role models.

We have plenty of actual good role models, both as Muslims and as Pashtuns, that we can look up to and appreciate, without having to mentally enslave ourselves to nationalistic pantheons that were created to instill unquestioning loyalty in a population.

[Traveller]

The one Pakistani Pashtun I know used to make fun of Pakistan all the time. I can't remember if he ever outright made fun of Jinnah, but he was a hardcore Wahabi so I doubt he had much respect for him either way. And aren't there still separatist Pakistani Pashtuns? Would they still feel bad to hear disrespect for the flag/anthem/Jinnah?

Regardless, we need to stop being brainwashed by nationalist rhetoric. It always amazes me that even very religious Turkish people are afraid to say anything bad about Ataturk, even though he was a blaspheming kaffir who disrespected Islam and ended the Khilafa. While they may not be as bad as Ataturk, the love Pakistanis have for Jinnah, or Afghans have for the beghairat Amanallah Khan, is totally unwarranted and people should resist the attempts at deifying them by nationalist propagandists. They were just people, and, despite the accomplishments they may have made that are worth praising, not very good people, and certainly not role models.

We have plenty of actual good role models, both as Muslims and as Pashtuns, that we can look up to and appreciate, without having to mentally enslave ourselves to nationalistic pantheons that were created to instill unquestioning loyalty in a population.

Most Pakistani Pashtuns in Pakistan are pretty patriotic and the seperatist ones are a small minority. As for the guy that you knew, most Pakistani Pashtuns who grew up outside of Pakistan(including me) have trouble identifying with Pakistan as we feel that Pakistani identity is based around Punjabis and Muhajirs and doesn't adequately represent us. I know several cases where a Pakistani Pashtun decided to start saying they were from Afghanistan because they were tired of being associated with Indics.

And I agree with you on nationalism. There's nothing special about these people and we shouldn't glorify them. Having reasonable pride over your cultural background and the land you're from is fine but this flag-waving bs based on fake borders is stupid.

[Ironhide]

Pakistan Pashtuns Vs Tajiks and Aghani Pashtuns Vs Punabies

It very clear to me that Pashtuns from Afghnistan hate Punjabies more than the Pakistan Pashtuns themselves.. while expecting Pakistani pashtuns to do the same without realizing that Pakistani Pashtuns have quite good working relationship with punjabaies etc.

Similarly Pakistani Pashtuns hate Tajiks/Farsiwans with passsion while Pashtuns on the afghanistan side of the border want to have working relationship with them.

Bottomline, in my opinion, is that both sides should give up the idea of united pashtunistan and concentrate on their respective countries.

I have no doubt i my mind that pashtuns on both side of the border can be very sucessful. And hopefully a day would come when the borders between the two countries wont matter, eg Europe etc.

[Admin Khan]

Most Pakistani Pashtuns in Pakistan are pretty patriotic and the seperatist ones are a small minority. As for the guy that you knew, most Pakistani Pashtuns who grew up outside of Pakistan(including me) have trouble identifying with Pakistan as we feel that Pakistani identity is based around Punjabis and Muhajirs and doesn't adequately represent us. I know several cases where a Pakistani Pashtun decided to start saying they were from Afghanistan because they were tired of being associated with Indics.

And I agree with you on nationalism. There's nothing special about these people and we shouldn't glorify them. Having reasonable pride over your cultural background and the land you're from is fine but this flag-waving bs based on fake borders is stupid.

This is true for nearly every Pashtun that I have met from Pakistan. They quite proudly claim they are Afghan, which is a true statement, ethnically.