Pakistan Census 2017 (pashtun Population)

[salman47]

[MENTION=19846]Traveller[/MENTION] and [MENTION=18842]Samandri[/MENTION] ,
I will point out another reason for Pashtun patriotism towards Pakistan.In the last 10-15 years , Pashtuns of Pakistan have suffered greatly due to militancy and associated terrorism in the form of suicide bombings , killing of tribal leaders etc. Military ops forced out many Pashtuns and they became IDPs.
In the end however , their areas were cleared , military efforts contributed to peace.
It was a triumph for the army and Pakistani nation , and since conditions improved for Pashtuns , that jazba of Pakistaniat increased.
The bad situation in Pashtun areas was blamed on India and Afghanistan , so the Pashtuns developed even more love for Pakistan and its armed forces.

I'd say that there is more patriotism now than there was even twenty years ago.
One thing I'd point out though , that in 1948 , just one year after Pakistan's independence , Pashtuns lashkars from FATA and KPK ( particularly from Waziristan) were on the front lines in Kashmir fighting voluntarily against the Indian troops.This goes on to show that these Pashtuns have had a love for Pakistan from the start.

A little off-topic: 1948, 14 August --> Babra Massacre
Anyway at the end Money talks.

[Shapur]

Also add to the fact that most of the Pashtuns in Pakistan felt the betrayal from the Afghan side since 1893(don't regurgitate the same boring Afghan POV, remember there are 2 sides of a story/fight/whatever).
When Pakistani 'DACA' came into play(recall that Pashtuns had nothing to do with it), the Afghan Pashtuns treated the Pakistani Pashtuns very badly(to the point of kidnapping children and some other horrible stories).

P.S. I am not a patriot, I do criticize the Army/ISI/Government from time to time. But still I think of protection of my beloved Pakhtunkhwa from joining Afghanistan(I am saying this because bad/horrible/blinding/deafening things will happen if we were to join Afghanistan, sure there are good people everywhere but remember they will always be living UNDER THE BRIDGE).

Never trust a conquering Army, doesn't matter if they are hardcore Muslims(esp.)

Lol, what? Care to provide some sources?

[Shapur]

[MENTION=19846]Traveller[/MENTION] and [MENTION=18842]Samandri[/MENTION] ,
I will point out another reason for Pashtun patriotism towards Pakistan.In the last 10-15 years , Pashtuns of Pakistan have suffered greatly due to militancy and associated terrorism in the form of suicide bombings , killing of tribal leaders etc. Military ops forced out many Pashtuns and they became IDPs.
In the end however , their areas were cleared , military efforts contributed to peace.
It was a triumph for the army and Pakistani nation , and since conditions improved for Pashtuns , that jazba of Pakistaniat increased.
The bad situation in Pashtun areas was blamed on India and Afghanistan , so the Pashtuns developed even more love for Pakistan and its armed forces.

I'd say that there is more patriotism now than there was even twenty years ago.
One thing I'd point out though , that in 1948 , just one year after Pakistan's independence , Pashtuns lashkars from FATA and KPK ( particularly from Waziristan) were on the front lines in Kashmir fighting voluntarily against the Indian troops.This goes on to show that these Pashtuns have had a love for Pakistan from the start.

The main question one should ask is, does being part of Pakistan serve the intsrests of Pashtuns in the long run? How will staying part of Pakistan and increased Pakistani nationalism impact Pashtun identity , language and culture. By staying part of Pakistan whose identity is deeply rooted in Indic muslim culture of sub continent, pashtuns will get desified overtime if they haven't already. Pashtuns of Pakistan are already more proficiant in Urdu than in Pashto (except rural ones) and know more about Nazria e Pakistan and Indian history than they do about Pashtun history.

The solution is not joining Afghanistan or independent Pashtunistan but asking for autonomy and promoting Pashtun intsrests while remaining part of Pakistan., at least for now. We can start by rejecting Urdu as medium of language and communication and replacing it with Pashto/English. What is the use of Urdu to Pashtuns?

Pashtuns have fought to defend muslims before Pakistan even existed. It wasn't the love for Pakistan but their love for Islam which compelled them to help kashmiris as their did their ancestor Ahmad Shah Durrani did 200 years before them.

[Samandri]

@Traveller and @Samandri ,

One thing I'd point out though , that in 1948 , just one year after Pakistan's independence , Pashtuns lashkars from FATA and KPK ( particularly from Waziristan) were on the front lines in Kashmir fighting voluntarily against the Indian troops.This goes on to show that these Pashtuns have had a love for Pakistan from the start.

These tribesmen had also participated in Nadir Shah's war against Bacha Saqao in 1928. It had nothing to do with love for newly born Pakistan , it was for glory associated with warring.

Moreover 1947-1948 war on Kashmir is first chapter of Pakistani policy of using Pashtun tribesmen as non-state actors and disposable cannon fodders. Mehsuds were the most numerous component of the tribals sent to Kashmir in 1948, and look at their sorry conditions today, they are destroyed and ruined , they are mostly homeless and every one of them is seen as potential terrorist.

[Ironhide]

Pashto as a medium of education

Yes, i agree with the idea that pashto should be made one of the official languages of Pakistan and should be made medium of education in Pushtu districts of Pakistan. These things can be achieved by staying within Pakistan.

The main hindrance in achieving the said are mostly Punjabi. Not because they are propagating Punjabi language, as the new culture among them is teaching their children English which results in their children knowing no language spoken in the country, but because they have never valued their language and since they are too many in number the same idea is imposed on other ethnic groups.

Also with economic and technological progress soon it will be very easy for any government to introduce regional languages, we have seen numerous examples in the developed world.

[toughpashtun]

A little off-topic: 1948, 14 August --> Babra Massacre
Anyway at the end Money talks.

That is one unfortunate incident , but keep in mind the general perception of Pashtuns towards Pakistan.

[toughpashtun]

The main question one should ask is, does being part of Pakistan serve the intsrests of Pashtuns in the long run? How will staying part of Pakistan and increased Pakistani nationalism impact Pashtun identity , language and culture. By staying part of Pakistan whose identity is deeply rooted in Indic muslim culture of sub continent, pashtuns will get desified overtime if they haven't already. Pashtuns of Pakistan are already more proficiant in Urdu than in Pashto (except rural ones) and know more about Nazria e Pakistan and Indian history than they do about Pashtun history.

The solution is not joining Afghanistan or independent Pashtunistan but asking for autonomy and promoting Pashtun intsrests while remaining part of Pakistan., at least for now. We can start by rejecting Urdu as medium of language and communication and replacing it with Pashto/English. What is the use of Urdu to Pashtuns?

Pashtuns have fought to defend muslims before Pakistan even existed. It wasn't the love for Pakistan but their love for Islam which compelled them to help kashmiris as their did their ancestor Ahmad Shah Durrani did 200 years before them.

You have expressed a valid concern of the desification of Pashtuns if they stay part of Pakistan.The thing is that maintaining their language and culture and identity is something which is in the hands of Pashtuns themselves , but they unfortunately have a lethargic attitude towards it.The provincial government ,if it wants can easily make Pashto a compulsory subject in schools , which is a very important and needed step.Being a part of Pakistan does not mean that the federal govt is on an agenda to 'desify' Pashtuns.
You said that apart from rural Pashtuns , they are more proficient in Urdu than Pashto.That's not true.Pashtuns are the one ethnic group which do not let go of their language that easily.
You said that Pashtuns should promote their own interests.I agree 100%.The fault is within ourselves , not the state.

[toughpashtun]

These tribesmen had also participated in Nadir Shah's war against Bacha Saqao in 1928. It had nothing to do with love for newly born Pakistan , it was for glory associated with warring.

Moreover 1947-1948 war on Kashmir is first chapter of Pakistani policy of using Pashtun tribesmen as non-state actors and disposable cannon fodders. Mehsuds were the most numerous component of the tribals sent to Kashmir in 1948, and look at their sorry conditions today, they are destroyed and ruined , they are mostly homeless and every one of them is seen as potential terrorist.

If you see the interviews of Mahsud and Wazir tribal elders of today , they keep on proudly mentioning their role in the Kashmir war and give that as an example to show how they are always ready to offer any sacrifice for Pakistan.
Of course , that may be intrepreted to mean that these tribals only want to give the impression that they love Pakistan as to not be considered anti-state.
But I am looking at things as they seem apparently , and to be honest , the vast majority of Pashtuns , be they FATA ,KP or Balochistan , are 'Gul Khans'.

[Ironhide]

i agree. Moreover, Farsi has replaced pashto enmass in Afghanistan. not in pakistan..

[maneatinglizard]

i agree. Moreover, Farsi has replaced pashto enmass in Afghanistan. not in pakistan..

This is completely untrue. Pashto is more respected and known today in Afghanistan than it has been as far back as Pashto history goes.

Take a look at Afghan vs Pakistani Pashtun Facebook pages or YouTube videos. The Afghan ones will mostly have comments made in proper Pashto (even if spelling still remains pretty bad). On Pakistani pages most discussions are in Urdu, and even when someone tries to write Pashto, he'll use either English or Urdu characters to do it. It's so lame to see a bunch of Urdu comments on a video in Pashto.

Don't let your love for Pakistan blind you to reality. Pashto is much, much weaker in Pakistan than it is in Afghanistan, and only the most deluded Pakistani nationalists could argue otherwise.

[maneatinglizard]

Also add to the fact that most of the Pashtuns in Pakistan felt the betrayal from the Afghan side since 1893(don't regurgitate the same boring Afghan POV, remember there are 2 sides of a story/fight/whatever).
When Pakistani 'DACA' came into play(recall that Pashtuns had nothing to do with it), the Afghan Pashtuns treated the Pakistani Pashtuns very badly(to the point of kidnapping children and some other horrible stories).

P.S. I am not a patriot, I do criticize the Army/ISI/Government from time to time. But still I think of protection of my beloved Pakhtunkhwa from joining Afghanistan(I am saying this because bad/horrible/blinding/deafening things will happen if we were to join Afghanistan, sure there are good people everywhere but remember they will always be living UNDER THE BRIDGE).

Never trust a conquering Army, doesn't matter if they are hardcore Muslims(esp.)

I'm not really sure what you're talking about, but if Pakistani Pashtunistan ever reunited with Afghanistan, it'll almost definitely be by choice, not because of an invading army.

[Shapur]

You have expressed a valid concern of the desification of Pashtuns if they stay part of Pakistan.The thing is that maintaining their language and culture and identity is something which is in the hands of Pashtuns themselves , but they unfortunately have a lethargic attitude towards it.The provincial government ,if it wants can easily make Pashto a compulsory subject in schools , which is a very important and needed step.Being a part of Pakistan does not mean that the federal govt is on an agenda to 'desify' Pashtuns.
You said that apart from rural Pashtuns , they are more proficient in Urdu than Pashto.That's not true.Pashtuns are the one ethnic group which do not let go of their language that easily.
You said that Pashtuns should promote their own interests.I agree 100%.The fault is within ourselves , not the state.

I know it is up to Pashtuns to preserve their identity but its is 100 times harder when there is no incentive to read and write in Pashto as it is not used as a medium of education/official documents etc. Pashto has no status in KPK other than a symbolic one and a spoken language. How many scientific journals are published in Pashto or how much funding is given for the promotion of Pashto language and cukture? I guess none. Unless the language is fully utilized at all levels in every day life it will die out. There is no escaping it. I know the state is not deliberately trying to desify people, they don't have to since the dominant culture of the state is desi anyway and people will adopt the dominant culture over time. Its upto the people to demand these changes but some might even be ashamed to ask for their basic rights out of fear for causing ethnic division or preferring ethni identity over national identity. Punjabis/ Sindhis will turn around and say we have accepted Urdu, why can't Pashtuns do the same.

I have been to KPK and I know for a fact that the people find it easier to read and write in Urdu and English than in Pashto. I am sure Samandri and others will confirm this.

In Afghanistan things are slightly better as the educated Pashtuns ard able to read/ write in Pashto but there are millions of Pashtuns in Northern and western Afghanistan who are deprived of getting an education in their mother tongue due to lack government funding and attention. Both countries face slightly different challenges and the only solution is to rise above Afghan/Pakistani petty nationalism and work together for our shared interests.

[Samandri]

I have been to KPK and I know for a fact that the people find it easier to read and write in Urdu and English than in Pashto. I am sure Samandri and others will confirm this.

.

This indeed is the case, i confirm it but their proficiency is limited to written Urdu . English is a different matter. Majority of the educated people with Masters and Bachelor degrees struggle with writing a sentence let alone a paragraph in English. The quality of education is extremely low.

A friend of mine has a private school running in his town. On my suggestion, he introduced Pashto subject in the school and hired an Afghan teacher for it. Within a year he was approached by the parents of the students that Pashto subject is a burden on their sons and that it has little or no utility . So the program failed.

[Friends of Baloch]

I know it is up to Pashtuns to preserve their identity but its is 100 times harder when there is no incentive to read and write in Pashto as it is not used as a medium of education/official documents etc. Pashto has no status in KPK other than a symbolic one and a spoken language. How many scientific journals are published in Pashto or how much funding is given for the promotion of Pashto language and cukture? I guess none. Unless the language is fully utilized at all levels in every day life it will die out. There is no escaping it. I know the state is not deliberately trying to desify people, they don't have to since the dominant culture of the state is desi anyway and people will adopt the dominant culture over time. Its upto the people to demand these changes but some might even be ashamed to ask for their basic rights out of fear for causing ethnic division or preferring ethni identity over national identity. Punjabis/ Sindhis will turn around and say we have accepted Urdu, why can't Pashtuns do the same.

I have been to KPK and I know for a fact that the people find it easier to read and write in Urdu and English than in Pashto. I am sure Samandri and others will confirm this.

In Afghanistan things are slightly better as the educated Pashtuns ard able to read/ write in Pashto but there are millions of Pashtuns in Northern and western Afghanistan who are deprived of getting an education in their mother tongue due to lack government funding and attention. Both countries face slightly different challenges and the only solution is to rise above Afghan/Pakistani petty nationalism and work together for our shared interests.

Bengalis and Sindhis did not accept the imposition of Urdu on them after becoming part of Pakiland.

Punjabis are the only people to have embraced Urdu whole heartedly at the expense of their own mother tongue. They were doing this even before the British "quit" India. Their case against their own language was two-fold: 1) that Urdu was so called 'Islamic' and the 'unifying' language of Muslims and 2) that Punjabi language had a very weak literary tradition, no standard alphabet (Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims used different alphabets to write Punjabi) and is a mostly spoken dialect with a very limited history of written works. This is the basis of Pakiland's language policy since the country's invention. The policy might seem beneficial only to Urdu-speakers, but it is also driven by Punjabis' inferiority complex towards their own language which also links them to their Hindu heritage.

Any sense of meaningful diversity has always been percieved by Punjabis as a threat to the idea of Pakiland. This particularly extends to the question of Urdu vs other languages like Pashto, Balochi, Sindhi, Bengali etc

The same inferiority complex Punjabis have regarding their Dalit language is also falsely projected by them through Pakiland nationalist propaganda on Pashtuns and Baloch etc by saying that these languages are also unviable and too inadequate to be 'official' and that they are also somehow not associated enough with 'Islam' like Urdu is.

To the credit of the Bengalis and Sindhis, they struggled and made sacrifices in blood to challenge the imposition of Urdu on them. Bengalis of course eventually got their independence, Sindhis on the other hand suceeded in forcing Pakiland to accept Sindhi as an official language in Sindh in the 1970s. Originally Sindhis tried to make Sindhi the only official language of Sindh, but eventually made a compromise that Urdu could retain its official status in Sindh alongside Sindhi.

Pashtuns have so far failed to fight for Pashto like Bengalis and Sindhis did for their languages. The renaming of NWFP took long enough, but that was several years ago now and Urdu is still the official medium.

[Traveller]

I know it is up to Pashtuns to preserve their identity but its is 100 times harder when there is no incentive to read and write in Pashto as it is not used as a medium of education/official documents etc. Pashto has no status in KPK other than a symbolic one and a spoken language. How many scientific journals are published in Pashto or how much funding is given for the promotion of Pashto language and cukture? I guess none. Unless the language is fully utilized at all levels in every day life it will die out. There is no escaping it. I know the state is not deliberately trying to desify people, they don't have to since the dominant culture of the state is desi anyway and people will adopt the dominant culture over time. Its upto the people to demand these changes but some might even be ashamed to ask for their basic rights out of fear for causing ethnic division or preferring ethni identity over national identity. Punjabis/ Sindhis will turn around and say we have accepted Urdu, why can't Pashtuns do the same.

I have been to KPK and I know for a fact that the people find it easier to read and write in Urdu and English than in Pashto. I am sure Samandri and others will confirm this.

In Afghanistan things are slightly better as the educated Pashtuns ard able to read/ write in Pashto but there are millions of Pashtuns in Northern and western Afghanistan who are deprived of getting an education in their mother tongue due to lack government funding and attention. Both countries face slightly different challenges and the only solution is to rise above Afghan/Pakistani petty nationalism and work together for our shared interests.

As friends of Baloch has stated Sindhis haven't accepted Urdu and unlike Pashtuns, most of of them can read and write their language.