Who's The Problem?

[Talal]

Yahya Khan who people claim to be Pashtun = Qizilbash
AQ Khan is not Pashtun at all, That is nonsense.

You start to name sport stars lmao.......That is all? out of 30million thats all you have?


Anyone who can not speak Pashto or live with the Pashtun principles is not Pashtun.

yahya khan

South Asia: a short history (1990) By Hugh Tinker page 248

Ayub Khan
Conflict between India and Pakistan: an encyclopedia By Peter Lyon


AQ Khan

Q. Why did they pick on Pakistan and on you?

A. If you become so subservient, even a child can jump and sit on your back. If you have no pride and you become a crony and a stooge, this sort of thing happens.

I am a Pathan (a Pakistani ethnic group). I can take a lot of things. But my wife is European. And my children and grandchildren, my family, my daughter could not come for one whole year.

pathans see afghans. Comes to mean those tribes not living in Afghanistan itself.

http://web.archive.org/web/20071225035825/http://www.bl.uk/collections/afghan/afghanglossary.html

McClatchy Newspapers 2008

[Talal]

Any sources to prove they are Pashtun?

also you said that thing about out of 30 million, i just stated these few because i have nothing to prove as it is a well-known fact that all pashtuns along with all other ethnicities are treated as equals, why shouldnt they ? Pakistan is their land just as much as it is mine and they love it just as much as i do.

[Admin Khan]

This is my last and final warning. If you can not keep this debate in a civil manner. Please stop.

[IamDZJ]

^ you have got to be kidding me. khan you have to work on that tone of yours. didn't sound very convincing.

[Talal]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8407786.stm


No they are not. This is not true.

I provided a source, can you provide one ?

Also the report above yes it is sadly true most of the people in karachi and all they are under hysteria as most of the TTP have come from the tribal areas so they are hesitant in providing them protection. But this isn't based on any ethnic biggotry, Karachi has the biggest pashtun population in the world bigger than Peshawar, kabul or kandahar..A fact that the reported calmly skimmed over before he reffered to them as "second class" citizens is that this isnt due to any ethnic reasons rather tensions in karachi are at an all time high becuase taliban have vowed to take down that city and are increasingky targetting pashtuns and karachi people alike..so if you like to look at this without bias then you will see that the panic the hysteria makes sense, that has nothing to do with them being treated as second class citizens

Also need i mention the massive budget that has been allocated to these areas for their rehabilitation and infrastructure development ? several crucial projects have been on hold for the last two years and the money instead has been directed towards these areas.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7884222.stm

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Did you hear that from your Mother ?

Yugoslavia wanted to last longer than 1993 but it failed. The 3rd Reich was supposed to last a thousand years but it didn't manage to do so.... So yes, Pakistan is a temporary entity.

You are F****g idiot who do not know that Mughals came from Afghanistan.

Are you an Indian ???

I like how you're showing your true colors with your delightful use of vocabulary here.

Two things - the Mughals were ethnic Turks who came from Ferghana, Uzbekistan. They claimed Mongol ancestry. So they were neither Pashtuns nor Afghans. Secondly, I am not an Indian though I there's nothing wrong with being one. I am a Pashtun.

This is the Answer to the propaganda you have been learning from your Cow Piss drinker Masters.

United Afpak to Kick Indians out !
[/IMG]

So you want Punjabi dominion to extend all the way towards Mazar-e-Sharif? Good for you.... though your plan is highly unrealistic. The Pakistani establishment achieved strategic depth only to have the same criminals that it used to achieve that wreak havoc in the mother country. Go figure.

Well well ..... You are not only an idiot but also you have been drinking for some while haven't you ?

I don't believe that I'm an idiot and I've been stone cold sober for a couple of weeks at least. I hope that alleviates your doubts.

Pakistan Provides Full rights to its all citizens without discrimination and if some idiot thinks that its this way it wont change the Realities .

Yeah... and the freedom movements in East Pakistan and Balochistan were a result of the nocturnal activities of foreign agencies, correct?

Post me a Neutral database if you have some , Not your Indian Sources .

I haven't quoted a single Indian source. Why do you automatically align me with India? I think the answer to that question should be quite telling.

[Dinosaur Khan]

@Swat
You give very disappointing impression by using foul langauge. You were not supposed to be provoked. Bls and levanay were debating in very civilized manner with heavy points you were suppose to do the same but your attacks and labellings spoil the whole thread.

[*Mahzala*]

I read the thread and its very disappointing. I wouldnt have got myself into it, but some replies are just not acceptable.

Swati you have ignited a debate, but it seems you were not well prepared for it. Or it seems you were not expecting any negative remarks in regards to what you may consider true or fact. Or it may be that youre just turning a blind eye. Whatever your stance, there is no need to go into disrespecting other members, who like you, believe they are entitled to free expression. There is always two sides to every story, and the other side of the coin is not always satisfying, neither to our beliefs, nor to our deisres. If we are not aware of something, it does not mean it is not true, or it doesnt exist. Learn to appreciate what others have to offer, even if it seems negative to you, there is always a lesson in it. Ive also seen your response to a few female members, and that too, is out of line. The basis of any debate or argument is research - of the good and the bad. Take both sides of a story, and work your way through to what lies in between the two. Research is about elimination and enlightenment. Go for facts, views and opinions, but also go for things you are not naturally inclined to believe or agree with. Stand by your view, by all means, but learn to accept the view of others, and at times defeat.

I told you earlier your posts are worth reading, and I didnt want to regret saying that. Think twice before saying anything...because that little extra thought can save you a dark line you might end up in. My intentions are not to disappoint.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

PML-N, ANP agree on NWFP new name

i know mate thats why i asked, anyways here is to nay-sayers because we actually got something to argue on

Islamabad—PML-N and ANP have reportedly reached a consensus over the new name for NWFP, as Pakhtoonkhwa Hazara.

Sources have announced that a meeting of specially formed committee of PML-N and ANP Parliamentarians, convened by PML-N’s Sartaj Aziz, which also included Haji Adeel, Sardar Mehtab, Zahid Khan, Saranjam Khan, and Sabir Shah. The meeting unanimously decided in favour of renaming the name of NWFP; something that should be acceptable to Provincial aspirations. Expressing their reservations over the title of Pakhtoonkhwa as the new name of NWFP, PML-N informed ANP, that Frontier was home not only to Pakhtoons, but also housed many other ethnic community as well; who also deserved to be represented.

The committee presented a variety of names out of which, Pakhtoonkhwa Hazara was accepted by majority.It was also decided to announce the decision soon, and both parties would maintain a perpetual consensus over this issue. —Online

Actually this info is not correct, here is the latest news

http://www.regionaltimes.com/26mar2010/frontpagenews/joint.htm

http://www.samaa.tv/News18442-Deadlock_persists_in_Reforms_body_meeting.aspx

[Pakhtunzai]

Disunity is the problem

[Talal]

Actually this info is not correct, here is the latest news

http://www.regionaltimes.com/26mar2010/frontpagenews/joint.htm

http://www.samaa.tv/News18442-Deadlo...y_meeting.aspx

^I knew it was too good to be true,

That website did not seem much reliable at all.

Disunity is the problem

Alright people lets calm down here and actually look into the details. The article i posted is correct, it is from january and PML and ANP met in january and they agreed on a consesus to rename NWFP to "pakhtoonkhwa hazaara", this was to be carried out in the 18th consititutional ammendment that was going to be presented this month.

Now the conflict here isn't in renaming, PML fully supports renaming it. The issue here is the second part of the name, initially it was put forth that NWFP be renamed to ''pakhtoonkwa hazaara'', hazaara was added to represent the other ethnicity residing within NWFP. Later on ANP changed it to "Pakhtoonkhwa afghania" whereas in their meeting in march it was decided that the new name should be "pakhtoonkwa abaseen" to represent the people along the hazaran and other ethnicities on the tribal belt. so you see the conflict wasn't in why the name is 'pakhtoonkhwa' its the secondpart that has been hindering this deal. ANP today presented it as " Pakhtoonkwha Afghania" which the PML opposed because it "Afghania" doesnt represent the other ethnicities residing within

nevertheless, the bill has just been postponed so that PML and ANP can agree on a name for the second part. NWFP will be renamed to pakhtoonkhwa very soon inshallah, i'd give it a month.

EDIT: The new update should be sufficient, pakistan knows how to take care of its own

Latest Update on the issue

PCCR rejects PML-N objections
ISLAMABAD (updated on: March 26, 2010, 16:45 PST): The Parliamentary Committee on Constitutional Reforms (PCCR) has rejected objection of PML-N with regard to the appointment of the judges, Aaj News reported.

According to the report, PCCR met again on Friday with the Senator Mian Raza Rabbani in the chair to resolve the differences over judges' appointment and renaming of NWFP province.

The signing ceremony of the final report of the PCCR was postponed on Thursday due to reservations of the PML-N chief Mian Nawaz Sharif over the matter of judicial commission and renaming of NWFP province.

ISLAMABAD: The unresolved issue of renaming the NWFP will be definitely settled in a meeting between the PML-N Quaid Nawaz Sharif and the Awami National Party (ANP) President Asfandyar Wali Khan, who would hold a session any time next week.

“Such a meeting is due between the two leaders,” a PML-N source said. Its date is yet to be firmed up. Nawaz Sharif flies back to Pakistan from Britain in a day or so and his party leaders say he may even announce the acceptance of the ANP’s proposed name, Pakhtunkhwa, even before meeting his one-time past ally, Asfandyar Wali Khan.

“If the finalisation of the 18th Amendment is dependent on consensus between our two parties on the new name for the NWFP, this is not a problem with us. It should be taken as resolved,” one PML-N leader told The News.

He said in the changed circumstances, there was no significance to the name of a province, as it would not connote anything harmful for the country except the provincial identity under a new title. “If Nawaz Sharif did not make public the acceptance of the demand even prior to talks, Nawaz and Asfandyar will hardly take a few seconds to reach a consensus on the new name after they would meet,” he said.

The PML-N leader conceded his party had left it to its NWFP chapter to sort out this issue in talks with the ANP, but it failed, showing unnecessary inflexibility to accommodate the ANP’s demand. “Now there is no way left for us but to get it resolved in a meeting between Nawaz Sharif and Asfandyar Wali,” he said.

A member of the Raza Rabbani-led parliamentary committee on constitutional reforms told this correspondent that by and large the body had determined afresh the quantum of provincial autonomy, which was the last but the most sensitive item on its agenda, and whatever little work that remained to be done by it on the issue would be certainly disposed of next week.

He thought by the end of the week, the constitutional bill would be ready in all respects except the new consensus name of the NWFP, if the PML-N and the ANP did not agree to it. “But we will wait for the conclusion arrived at by the two parties,” he said.

Not only the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) but also all the smaller parties, which have representation in the parliamentary committee, agree to the ANP’s proposed name. The PML-N has been its main opponent, believing it might send a negative message to the Hazara Division where it has considerable political say. The PML-Q’s stand is similar to that of the PML-N.

During his last dinner meeting with Nawaz Sharif at the Aiwan-e-Sadr, President Asif Zardari had urged him to settle with the ANP the issue of renaming the NWFP because disagreement existed only between the PML-N and the ANP. He had said he would accept whatever decision the two parties would take.

The committee member said after finalisation of the constitutional package, the law ministry would prepare its draft, which would be sent back to the parliamentary panel to see if it matches all their recommendations.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

If they really did name the 'NWFP' as Pashtunkhwa-Hazara, I would've always gone out of my way to call it "Subha Sarhad" or "NWFP".

Pashtunkhwa/Afghania = preferable
Pashtunkhwa-Khyber/Pashtunkhwa-Abaseen = acceptable

Anything else is simply unacceptable.

Why doesn't the PML (N) name Punjab as Punjab-Seraikai? .... or something else because the Pakistani province of Punjab no longer has 5 rivers....

Edit: I think the PML (N) is doing a good job at stalling the renaming issue. Eventually, it'll become stone-walled and be relegated to status of a 'non-issue'.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Yaraa lewanaye asal kae daa yaw siyaasee gandh pml jorr karrae da..kaaga largee dee. Pa Afghanistan, Pashtunkhwa ao Kashmir kae dyuu da talibano ao noro militia saraa ba ae mrastha kawal...ao che kala 10 dhamakae pae raaghlal nu hawaa warnaa laarra. Don't expect much from them. Khabaraa dasae da pakistan establishment pakhtun/afghan identity par zidh dee..dyuu khpla nazar bandae pakhtun tol duniya tha raamakhae tha karree dee ya'anee pakhtun = taliban. Kho dyuu na ghwaree chae pakhtun siyasee ddalae khpla khabaraa raa makhae tha kee, wa lae che bya pakistan establishment/isi ao milli urdu altha murdaaree gee. Dyuu da ham nashee manalae chae daa ddalarae/aid che zee agha dae pashtunkhwa tha awal na zee kho dae awal federal hukumath ao army tha zee ao bya pashtunkhwa tha. daa ae hal dae chae 62 kaala na pass hum mung dagha num badhlawalo tha walarr yuu.

[Talal]

If they really did name the 'NWFP' as Pashtunkhwa-Hazara, I would've always gone out of my way to call it "Subha Sarhad" or "NWFP".

Pashtunkhwa/Afghania = preferable
Pashtunkhwa-Khyber/Pashtunkhwa-Abaseen = acceptable

Anything else is simply unacceptable.

Why doesn't the PML (N) name Punjab as Punjab-Seraikai? .... or something else because the Pakistani province of Punjab no longer has 5 rivers....

Edit: I think the PML (N) is doing a good job at stalling the renaming issue. Eventually, it'll become stone-walled and be relegated to status of a 'non-issue'.

it doesnt matter whats acceptable to you unless your a pakistani, this choice rests alone with the related parties.

Also despite what your views about punjabis or pakistan's government in general, this particular matter has very little to do with the renaming issue. It is an issue but there are other factors which must be duly noted in order to understand the problem completely, read the article below

And the name today was rejected for its use of the word "afghania", that is a highly unlikely scenario

And a little geography check for you, should i count them for you too ?

Gilani gets a taste of Nawaz’s rock-shock politics

Friday, March 26, 2010

By Rauf Klasra

ISLAMABAD: The PML-N leaders are said to have conveniently let down Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on Thursday as he had signed two official summaries — first to officially invite President Asif Zardari to address the joint sitting of Parliament and secondly to lay the 18th Amendment draft — after duly consulting the Nawaz camp about the official business of the National Assembly today (Friday).

Prime Minister Gilani was said to have been caught off guard when he came to know about the decision of the PML-N to back out from its earlier commitment given to him that its leaders were fully satisfied with the outcome of the almost year-long deliberations of the Parliamentary Committee on Constitutional Reforms (PCCR).

One source commented that so far this was believed that the prime minister was perhaps using top leaders of the PML-N whenever there was any political crisis in Islamabad to bail out President Zardari and his own government. But, this time the PML-N leaders seemed to have settled all the previous scores by giving Prime Minister Gilani a “surprise” by refusing to back these reforms in the House at the eleventh hour. After the dramatic somersault by the PML-N leaders, the Law Ministry was said to have hurriedly changed the official business for todayÃs (FridayÃs) sitting as now a new date will be announced for the tabling of the bill followed by address of Asif Zardari.

Giving inside information, the sources said, actually one top leader of the PML-N who was also member of the PCCR had created this whole mess as he had given his consent to the government to summon the joint session today (Friday) so as the constitutional package could be tabled followed by the address of President Zardari. After getting satisfied with the response of the PML-N camp, Prime Minister Gilani informed President Zardari to get ready to address the Parliament today (Friday).

The sources said this was also the idea of members of the PML-N to call the final meeting of the constitutional committee on Thursday evening in the Parliament House to sign the constitutional reform document so as no party could back out from the agreed changes in the clauses. But, the sources said, to much surprise of members of the committee, Senator Ishaq Dar representing the PML-N in the committee did not turn up for the meeting. These members were said to have smelled something foul in the meeting when they were informed that Dar would not be available to sign the document.

The sources said the mystery behind the absence of Dar was soon resolved when news television channels started live coverage of extraordinary press conference by Nawaz Sharif.

The sources said, Prime Minister Gilani had been accommodating the concerns of the PML-N at every stage and had even played a major role in convincing President Zardari to implement the Charter of Democracy (CoD) and shift his sweeping powers to the prime minister. These sources said unlike the public perception that Zardari would not give up his powers, he had ultimately agreed to hand over his powers to appoint chief of army staff to his own hand-picked prime minister. But, the sources said, this time government was in a serious mood to table the constitutional bill in the House today (Friday) to put an end to long controversy, when suddenly it was revealed that this time none other than the PML-N leaders themselves were not ready to back those proposals on laughable excuses. The sources said the new stance of Nawaz about process of judges’ appointment did not carry weight particularly when Chief Justice of Pakistan Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry during a course of hearing of one case the other day had appreciated the idea of parliamentary commission to evaluate and confirm the appointment of judges in the light of recommendation of judicial commission headed by Chief Justice of Pakistan himself. One source said the irony was that in the last one year the PML-N never missed a chance to blast Asif Zardari for applying delaying tactics to finalise the constitutional bill. But, when the time came to table these reforms in the House after a general consensus among all the parties, it was revealed that this time the PML-N leaders were not serious in bringing about much talked reforms in the constitution for some “unknown reasons” trigging new speculation about their intentions.

[JAMALUDEEN]

Amateur Socialists!