Women and Sport...

[roadrunner]

does anybody here believe some cultures are more superior than others? yes, which ones and why?

[Breshna]

Wawrina, im sure your clever enough to work this fool out, let me show you how twisted this tamed animal is. first she expresses how she doesnt mind any dress aslong as its not a safety on track and field, lets take females 100metres as an example



Then she changes it to



now shes gone all Islamic LOL...it gets even worse when she types:



i guess the 100 metre girls outfit doesnt expose anything in a manner which is against Islam does it.

and about talking about dress sence....ermmmm...how about here:



and that was one of the initial posts on this thread!. Believe me this one is a crack head, dont waste your time.

I understand it...all too...well now.

Thank..you.

[IamDZJ]

I wouldn't join a...National...team.

I wouldn't let...my sisters...join.

If..i ever have a...daughter..(Inshallah)

She wouldn't be...allowed..either.

So plain...No.

in....third ...grade...they...teach...students....to ...type
proper
sentences....
have...you...ever...stepped...foot...in ...
to
a.... classroom?
or.... are...you ...trying...to ..speak..broken..english
to...
conceal...your..actual identity.....
??

if so then please explain to me what " so....plain...no." means.


and to the ****head that it probably does concern,

i said they should be allowed to wear what the want to wear. first of all, i don't see how that translates to "they should walk around in shorts and bikinis", secondly, if a non hijabi afghan wants to be a member of a certain team and the hijab is part of the dress code requirement, wouldn't it be stupid to have her wear a hijab while she is in the field and shorts or skirts when she pleases??
if a hijabi wants to participate and she is not allowed because she is wearing a scarf, wouldn't that be a shame?? what else does" they should wear whatever they want" translate to??
because you have given your dogs alot more opportunities to practice freedom of thought and decision making skills on their own than you have to your daughters and sisters, you are afraid that should you let them choose what they should be wearing in public, they will most likely end up walking around in skimpiest thing available. THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO WEAR WHAT THEY WANT translates to they will dress up like *****s.
that is really good to know. the amount of faith that you have in the judgments of your sisters and mothers is just amazing. so if it wasn't for you, they would be *****s.

[Manzareh]

and to the ****head that it probably does concern,

would be interesting to hear you say that in your indian accent, must be hilarious

[B] i said they should be allowed to wear what the want to wear. first of all, i don't see how that translates to "they should walk around in shorts and bikinis" [B]

from wearing what they need to as a safety risk to wearing what they want to wear, what the heck are you muddling up. i bet when you talk to people they just stare at you and then turn around and walk off thinking how much drugs you take.

actually you probly dont take drugs more a case of being one of the most boring people out there, locked in your house forced to be a human dishwasher yet you play mrs.freedom on the internet to relieve your frustration..either way, who cares.

[B], secondly, if a non hijabi afghan wants to be a member of a certain team and the hijab is part of the dress code requirement, wouldn't it be stupid to have her wear a hijab while she is in the field and shorts or skirts when she pleases??[B]

I guess your sister or females in the family are the non hijabi type then.

[B]if a hijabi wants to participate and she is not allowed because she is wearing a scarf, wouldn't that be a shame?? what else does" they should wear whatever they want" translate to??[B]

blah blah blah

[B]because you have given your dogs alot more opportunities to practice freedom of thought and decision making skills on their own than you have to your daughters and sisters,[B]

says who? you speaking from first hand experience. im so very sorry to be hearing that you have been valued less than your pet dog

[B]you are afraid that should you let them choose what they should be wearing in public, they will most likely end up walking around in skimpiest thing available. THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO WEAR WHAT THEY WANT translates to they will dress up like *****s. [B]

how about good parenting and teaching the daughters of the dangers of dressing inappropriately to a level were the children have free will and yet still hold Islamic dress sense. yee seems like a better idea. like i said may allah have mercy on your daughters to be inshallah and guide them as you dont seem like a fit guidance to anybody. woman your on your knees to the angrez please dont get on your all fours, save yourself some dignity.

that is really good to know. the amount of faith that you have in the judgments of your sisters and mothers is just amazing. so if it wasn't for you, they would be *****s.

if it wasnt for their understanding, upbringing and faith in Allah..yeah they probably would be.

[faye]

[QUOTE=Wawrina;583568]No...the mental..picture..is enough.

Here's a little education...for you Faye.

i am not an irish catholic, i'm not even a christian so why show that to me, lol?
i don't need an education about bathers. i have my views already, dear.

[Pakhtunzai]

Manzareh wrora, shes too ignorant to understand what your saying, why do you think the majority of the kuffar completely ignore the truth of islam, the genocides committed by their own armies and actually follow the bullcrap fed to them via the media.

One thing I can say, well done dajjal and implementers of the dajjal system! And the deception created by shaytan.

[Catya Sher]

That's a good question that Haris asked.

I have not read the replies,
but I must say I think it is in TERRIBLE TASTE for women to be
there before the eyes of the world
participating in sports.
Especially ones like figure skating or any of these which require the
skimpiest of costume.
Actually, these sports have evolved into this style of horrible outfits ;
it did not have to be this way. But they get worse and worse with the years.

Furthermore, for team sports like soccer, baseball, etc.,
I don't see ANY need for this at all. It's just the women imitating the men.
A century ago, no women would have been out on a field playing lacrosse
or doing crew - rowing boats on rivers for competition.

It all seems so tacky. Frankly, show-offy. "Look at me" these girls
and women are saying.

I am on record on a Gym thread earlier on Pf saying that women should NOT
appear in T-shirts and shorts and that kind of thing at a public gym.
Even if it's an all-women's gym, which is rare.

Exercise, if really sincerely sought, can be done without catering to spectators, and wearing
decent attire. However, it's probably difficult in many Western countries these
days to find for example, a venue for swimming that is really appropriate.
It's a pity because swimming is virtually an ideal exercise.

In Iran, they have some kind of swimming hijab, I remember writing.

+++++++

Re the above,
Good work, Manzareh, 3 Cheers !!!

[roadrunner]

spoken like a true fat woman.

let's face it, women may enjoy kicking a football, like men do. if they prefer to wear less in order to cool down, it really is their choice. The perverts would be the ones who think they're doing it for some other reason.

[roadrunner]

if people can't control themselves, they shouldnt be looking.

[Manzareh]

if people can't control themselves, they shouldnt be looking.

Its not about controlling yourself its about the other person exposing themselves son. You have the same views as a non muslim white person, that says alot about you alone. see you later John.

[roadrunner]

oh dear oh dear, a bit bitter are we?

you've gone from being a mullah saying Islam has no races to bringing race/color into the discussion.

it's ALL about the other person controlling themselves. if you weren't so horny/desperate, women could make their own way and make their own decisions.

[Manzareh]

oh dear oh dear, a bit bitter are we?

you've gone from being a mullah saying Islam has no races to bringing race/color into the discussion.

it's ALL about the other person controlling themselves. if you weren't so horny/desperate, women could make their own way and make their own decisions.

Listen to yourself, dont try and twist things you know exactly what i mean, i brought race into this because it seems your culture is that of what the white races culture is, and you agree with what the average non muslim white person perceives (which is against the views of Islam).

Just because i have some knowledge about Islam im a Mullah?, id love to see you debate with a Mullah. if you think im acting like a mullah then are you one of those that call women wearing a scarf extreme muslims.? afterall you call anyone that doesnt want to dress inappropriately as fat.

were is your stance and opinions coming from anyway? from a non muslim? if thats the case then fine, from a muslim? then surely even if your religious or not, you know the things you have mentioned are against Islam completely, do you agree?? if not then does watching your sister dance around in a mini skirt comply with Islam.

maybe you should visit the mosque once in a while and review the rules of Islam and argue with a scholar, see what he thinks of your outlook on calling him and every single Islamic practicing person a horny person that cannot control themselves.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

so why don't the men have to cover up too?

Hi Faye,

Here is a reference:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...n-objects.html

I think its fair to say that men and women are inherently different in the way that they percieve each other and in the way that they respond to stimuli and cues.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/po...jects-09-02-17

"Princeton psychologist Susan Fiske presented findings from a new study this past Sunday, at the American Association for the Advancement of Science annual meeting in Chicago, where she and her colleagues compared, "...heterosexual men’s perceptions of scantily clad women, scantily clad men, and fully clothed men and women."
And what they found is the 21 male subjects had the best memory for photos of sexy bikini-clad women. No surprise. Then they had the men look at the photos while their brains were scanned and what she found was that, "...this memory correlated with activation in part of the brain that is a pre-motor, having intentions to act on something, so it was as if they immediately thought about how they might act on these bodies.""

Generally, this issue of what men and women wear is relatively unimportant in the context of greater issues facing the Muslim world right now. Whether its a secularist in Iran or a religionist in Afghanistan or a Saudi tribesman, these people all together should realize that the issue facing the Muslim world is learning to understand that murder is likely, in the eyes of a Creator, worse than flirting and skirt sellers. These discussions side line a central goal that all these people should be working on: sovereignty. Attainment of it wont lead to immediate peace or stability, but it will permit self driven progress.

However, I'll answer the question in the best way I can:

I think that the common response I hear from fans of Mr. Dawkins and professed agnostics in regard to why behaviors of the past are irreconcilabe with "modernity" is: "well, haven't we evolved beyond that?"

Its sort of an ironic viewpoint though. On the one hand these folks are championing science and reason as the basis for enlightment and potentially for subsequent social stability. Yet I find it interesting that their ideals ignore the science behind who we are according to their paradigms. We are basically a part of the animal kingdom and what sets us apart is a more developed cerebral cortex. That rub is that the cortex doesn't make is divine or free us from our basic animal needs: food, shelter, and the drive to reproduce.

So for instance, when these folks ask: "Well, why can't a woman who flaunts herself be judged by society exactly as a man would be?" It appears to be some cross cultural phenomena where men are seen as stallions if they bed many women and women are seen as loose moralled if they do the same with men.
Doesnt the science that we all profess to study remind us that spermatids are like cheap quartz crystal and the ovum is like a diamond in terms of relative value? The explanation behind certain aspects of mate gaurding behavior find their foundations on weighing the value of the egg against the value of the sperm. That is not religion, neither Christianity nor Islam that puts forth that view. So it seems ludicrous to me that they view as as a part of teh animal kingdom and have an established knowledge base of how members of the animal kingdom behave, and then they castigate humans for obeying aspects of their animal nature.

Instead, I would say that my reading of the Quranic text does not support your statement above. The Quranic text makes it clear that men and women have spiritual equality before God's judgement throne. A man wandering off the marriage pasture will, in no uncertain terms, be punished in the same way as a woman who does the same. There is no injunction that gives women a 101 punishments versus a man's 100 punishments. However, the Quran makes it clear that men and women are inherently different, yet these differences complement eachother. It reminds a man who hates his wife that he "may hate a thing that is good for him." It assigns the man certain roles in society and it gives the woman certain commandments (e.g. feeding the child with breast milk for 2 full years). I will not try to accomodate Western sentiment and say that the Quran passes a bill of rights that clearly says: women have all the same rights as men. In fact it says "and women have rights similar as to the man, but the man has a degree of authority because he has been given (fadl - certain advantages). These advantages are not defined literally. Despite the best attempts of the Christian polemacist they cannot make the Quran say that "Women are evil, women are dumber, or women are less worthy."

Why the Quran doesnt support your assessment is that it doesnt ask women to cover up because they are sex objects at all. The only words used in conjunction with covering as that it is "for their protection." Perhaps Fiske's work unmasks why this additional clothing is a protection of sorts that allows women to NOT be objectified. Modesty may have its own inherent virtue in this regard. Note also that the Quran makes it clear to man that his visual gaze is what activates the brain circuity and fires up the neurons that are programmed to objectify women in this way. It asks him to lower his gaze appropriately. However, Islam is a religion of common sense as well. It endorses man's animal nature and attempts to moderate it for his own benefit. So what the sunnah of the Prophet asks man to do is to marry early because there is a recognition in Islam that the sex drive is a major part of our being.

However, the answer to your question seems to be found in Fiske's work in that no matter how hard you may try to think it is not so, you cannot make men and women's brains work the same way. Then the answer is that modesty is not a punishment, but that it is the natural and most appropriate way to answer the call of our biological being.

[roadrunner]

"Princeton psychologist Susan Fiske presented findings from a new study this past Sunday, at the American Association for the Advancement of Science annual meeting in Chicago, where she and her colleagues compared, "...heterosexual men’s perceptions of scantily clad women, scantily clad men, and fully clothed men and women."
And what they found is the 21 male subjects had the best memory for photos of sexy bikini-clad women. No surprise. Then they had the men look at the photos while their brains were scanned and what she found was that, "...this memory correlated with activation in part of the brain that is a pre-motor, having intentions to act on something, so it was as if they immediately thought about how they might act on these bodies.""

You're not suggesting that women are different to men in thinking based on that, are you?

[Catya Sher]

I just was reading back through the earlier pages of the thread, as well
as catching up on later ones.

SHREWD comment by the very observant Pakhtunzai :

"I just find it a bit strange that, the majority of things Faye says here is what our nafs demands,
"to be liberal" and act upon what it desires. And many a time has she tried to convince girls to her way of thinking. "

I am glad to see Gulalai standing up to faye and sticking up for traditional
women's values. This proves to faye that her plan to corrupt all of PF women
or get them on her side to form a group to attack some of the stronger members here. Good work, too, Gulalai.

Thank you Manzareh for your many excellent comments which hit the target exactly. It's just that several of these persnickety members are too
dazed / dense / devilish to take in your points without childishly hitting back
as they habitually do. I appreciate the defense as ...
NO ONE has ever called ME fat ! Ha Ha what a joke. Of course the first one
would have to be the chronically rude, intrusive ROTErunner. He repeats stock answers, never has anything original...

However on the topic of sports when young, I guess I would say that
I was constantly participating in sports, every single day horseback riding,
playing tennis and swimming usually. At least 2 out of the 3
Plus all those team sports one is forced into in the school system
It's the latter ones - part of the curriculum, where one has no choice -
which I felt were a waste. I never gained anything from them.

The best advice for women in sports is to find sports that are really of
true interest and not be pressured for any reason to join a team or
take up this or that.

Sometimes people do this to antidote their feelings of being inadequate at sports. These are after all a big component of Western society's social life.

My belief is that it is sheer waste to be pleasing other people - ever,
in any category, but especially something so superficial as a sport.

There is little benefit to the soul - UNLESS it is some activity that the woman
really has a great interest in ON HER OWN - without others cajoling "You need
to develop your backhand". Or daring her : "You should be able to slalom down that
vertical ski slope over there" , making the person feel she MUST take on
the challenge, whether she has any interest in doing so, or not.

In short, there are too many OUTSIDE PRESSURES from people who may NOT
be her well-wisher ANYWAY, leading to possible accidents.
How many people I knew had serious falls when skiing, leading to
years of recovery ! It's NOT worth it to fit in with the expectations of others,
including family members, too.