Helping hamsayas to return to their ethno-cultural-linguistic roots

[khushal]

Damon are dancers right?

I think again the paksitani version is different from ours. a "dam" is someone who beats the drum. damon is the plural for it. For some reason the word damon is attached to them when in reality that is something they do very little of.

[khushal]

[MENTION=18475]marwat[/MENTION] even basic terminology of pashtunwali is mystery for these western Pashtuns of North America and Europe.

When I google hamsaya with pashtunwali, every book and written record has different meaning to the term. Maybe its just different in different parts of pashtunland.

Are there any Qandaharis/Helmendis in here? How do you guys see this word?

[marwat]

All Kamaya (kammi) and inki (hindki ) are hamsaya but not all hamsayas are kammi......Some pashtun families and weak clans might also seek protection of stronger clans and accept status as hamsaya......hamsaya means sharing the same shadow, pashtuns and their vassals share the same shadow

seeking protection of stronger clans are things mentioned only in books or were practiced some 50 years before. today an isolated waziri family living in my area who buy a land from me will be considered hamsaya no matter how big landlord or warrior he is in waziristan.
i have a question for you. people of Abakhel and dalokhel are not ethnic pashtun yet they enjoy much status and respect in whole marwat community than surrounding villages of ethnic pashtun. and it has nothing to do with the fact that they are the descendants of Aba shaheed khel a saint considered as syed, but the status and respect and leverage over ordinary pashtun they enjoy is because they are not vulnerable, they are landlord and possess the tit for tat traits. they are known for feuds, criminal activities, selling drugs and of course education. why they are not considered hamsaya ? our MNA belongs from this village, how can a pasthun vote for hamsaya? isn't it means the word hamsaya has nothing to do with ethnicity but with vulnerability?

[khushal]

Smarty,
I also have a question. If a person that has badi and escapes to a neighboring tribe and asks for sayma to someone of the nieghbering tribe. is that person considered a hamsaya of the one he is asking sayma?

[marwat]

The precise definition of the word "kam-nasal" is "someone who is from Afghanistan" lol

We should have a new caste system where descendants of Afkooni kanjar are at the bottom and Indian Dalits are at the top.

you must be indian dalit for sure

[marwat]

So are you, I mean just look at your face.
Typical Marwat Indic Jatt features and black skin colour you have.

thanks god, you accepted that you are ghul. why is this that you hate yourself so much?

[tilla_jogian]

Majority of Pashtuns in Panjab that own businesses and land are Ghilzai.

Plus making fun of poor people is not proper behavior. YOu panjos need to learn some manners and learn how to behave. I guess when Afgans were teaching you Islam, you were sick on the day they were teaching you manners.

You are again making up stuff out of your a**, I already told you to stick with your own village. And first at least be a muslim, because for bacha baz afghanis only hell is awaiting after death.

And no they are not ghilzai, and even if they were then no one would know. You don't even know anything about your own village in Afghanistan so what else is expected, I don't blame you since you never been to Afghanistan.

Some of Pakistani pashtuns are here since 100-150 years and are bilingual in pashto/punjabi. Others have migrated since 1947. Afghanis have shops in Peshawar but here for reason reason they live like gypsy in tents unlike Pakistani pashtuns. I am not making fun of poor people just telling how afghanis live. Anyway in Punjab we don't discriminate based on someone ethnic group, we are not like afghanis or urdu speakers in Karachi. Or even ANP racist thugs.

[Kushan Prince]

Damon are dancers right?

Aren't Damom's or Daman's a baloch/Brahui tribe?

[tilla_jogian]

Aren't Damom's or Daman's a baloch/Brahui tribe?

damom are dalits.

[Kushan Prince]

damom are dalits.

There is also a Brahui tribe called Daman or Damanzai but i think they are separate from the indic ones. Also, why do they seem to be discriminated against on both sides?

[tilla_jogian]

There is also a Brahui tribe called Daman or Damanzai but i think they are separate from the indic ones. Also, why do they seem to be discriminated against on both sides?

Because they had misfortune to be born as dalits in both sides. But only in rural areas, in Pakistani cities they are doing well for themselves.

[tilla_jogian]

What are you? I am a Dalit

I am mussali. But since I was born in Pakistan it doesn't matter now.

[Kushan Prince]

Because they had misfortune to be born as dalits in both sides. But only in rural areas, in Pakistani cities they are doing well for themselves.

But why is that? Aren't they human themselves?

Ranjit Singh's most trusted high-ranking general was a Dalit himself.

[tilla_jogian]

But why is that? Aren't they human themselves?

Ranjit Singh's most trusted general was a Dalit himself.

Yes dalits in Afghanistan and Pakistan are human as well, but in jahil societies they have been suffering.

Don't talk about sikhs, they are racist bunch. Yes sikhsm initially gave equal rights to low caste dalits, they are known as mazhabhi sikhs. But even now all the land holders are jatts while mazhabhis sikhs continue to be landless kammi despite serving in british army and sikh empire. Thats why many mazhabhi sikhs converted to christianity when british came.

Sikh jatts don't even allow mazhabhi sikhs to enter their gurdawaras. I am not aware of Ranjeet singh general being dalit.

I think out of 12 sikh misls, 10 belonged to sikh jatts. Around 50% of today sikhs are jatts or 25-30% of Indian punjab population is jatts yet it seem like they are majority. Also mazhabhi sikhs were loyal to India in 1984 when sikh jatts were demanding separate homeland. Why is that? Because they knew what would happen to them in sikh jatt dominated country. This is lesson for all those kammi people of KPK who think themselves as more pashtuns then pashtun themselves.

"In addition to their soldiering reputation, the Mazhabi Sikhs are renowned for their loyalty and reliability. During Operation Blue Star in 1984, when the Indian Army entered the Golden Temple, Jatt Sikh[33][34] soldiers broke out in mutiny against their officers in the Sikh Regiment[35][36] and Punjab regiments[37] A total of 2000 Sikh personnel took part in the mutinies.[38] In the most sensational case 1400 Sikhs Mainly Jatt Sikhs deserted after killing their commanding officer and armed themselves.[39] "

[Toramana]

I am more interested about why people do what they do instead of what they should do. If you know the "WHY," then you can control the "WHAT."
I get it, you didn't get my point which was that PEOPLE do this, not particularly PASHTUNS. Look at America for example: Is Obama seen as an American, sure some people do but not all. Even Giuliani questioned his Americaness while others criticized Giuliani for saying such a thing:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/theova...rica/23662799/

I exactly explained that point in other threads, i. e., why a tribal society in the first place, by saying that organizing society in tribes is the best way in certain natural environments to have access to and control over resources (agricultural land, pasture, water, grazing grounds). Besides, it provides a mean of protection against foes that are competing for the same resources.

Usually tribal societies exist in places where there is little land for large-scale agriculture and people mostly are reliant on cattle herding , subsistence agriculture, and a nomadic way of life. The resource base is so weak that you cannot tax people to have a permanent army and therefore a state.

That is why in a tribal society there is only the concept of a lashkar (an emergency force raised in haste in the time of need ) but no army because the folk cannot afford to have an army. In such societies there can be a rudimentary form of state (that also rarely) but not an advanced and well-developed state.

But if your land is fertile and can produce surplus food and generate other forms/means of wealth, soon there is going to be a state either formed by yourself or imposed on you by some invader (remembers invaders seek resources). Such a state is going to organize you (i. e., your people) along feudal lines. This happens when one or more individuals grab more resources and organize a force that is strong enough to subdue the rest and impose an order on them.

Feudalism and agrarian structure is an advanced form of social organization. Often it is characterized by the presence of a state, a sizeable trading class and other artisan classes (because there are wealthy people who want better and fancier things in life ), a good degree of artistic and cultural activity, and other creative, productive endeavours.

In tribal societies on the other hand, there doesn't even exist a sizeable artisan class because you don't have the means to pay them. A tribal person is usually, the mason, the cobbler, a shoe maker, an architect, etc. all at the same time. So there is no specialization and when there is no specialization there is no artistic beauty in the material form of culture. Everything is so crude. For example look at the homes that tribal people construct or the dress they wear or the food they eat, etc.

As there is nothing in terms of art and culture that tribal societies can be proud of so they try to compensate for the lacking by gloating over their fighting capacity, which is usually un-organized/un-channelled and more a consequences of their economic circumstances and not an evidence of some inherent ability.