Helping hamsayas to return to their ethno-cultural-linguistic roots

[tilla_jogian]

No that is wrong. Rape is not tolerated and have horrible consequences even if the offender is powerful and the victim very poor. Usually, the offender faces death. Moreover, the society generally doesn't tolerate rape.

Unfortunately, in Punjab people don't stand to oppression and don't side with the weaker party or the victim.

Pashtun society in this respect is virtuous than Punjab society.

please stick to your pashtun society where your women are considered fair game by real pashtuns. And forcing on kammi like you is not rape for them. Don't teach me about punjabi society.

In fact real pashtuns like gandools brag about raping kasabar or whatever women. Because there is no law/police, just bunch of tribals forcing on kammi people like you.

[Toramana]

please stick to your pashtun society where your women are considered fair game by real pashtuns. And forcing on kammi like you is not rape for them. Don't teach me about punjabi society.

In fact real pashtuns like gandools brag about raping kasabar or whatever women. Because there is no law/police, just bunch of tribals forcing on kammi people like you.

I don't think that is true. Kammi is a word used in Punjab that it inherited from the Hindu past with the caste based system. There is no such thing as "kammie" in KP and in KP some areas in proximity to Punjab may be affected by it but it is not the case generally.

My point is we should stand up to this and fight against it instead of taking pride in it or using it to inflate our egos. It is a collective shame of the society and not the stigma of any particular class.

[tilla_jogian]

I don't think that is true. Kammi is a word used in Punjab that it inherited from the Hindu past with the caste based system. There is no such thing as "kammie" in KP and in KP some areas in proximity to Punjab may be affected by it but it is not the case generally.

My point is we should stand up to this and fight against it instead of taking pride in it or using it to inflate our egos. It is a collective shame of the society and not the stigma of any particular class.

And the system among pashtuns is caste based just like hindus. Don't forget your true roots. Yes there is such a thing as kammi in kpk, no matter what you call them. Hamsaya, kasabar, dom, etc Stop living in delusions, you are landless kammi and pashtuns are landowners.

Did you read about low caste mazhabhi sikhs and landowners jatt sikhs in 1984? You was suggesting similar thing, why did khalistan movement fail? Because it was jatt sikh movement, mostly concentrated on western part of Indian punjab. Other sikhs especially khatris and mazhabhis supported Indian gov.

Landless low caste mazhabi sikhs quickly realized they will be ****ed in separate khalistan. Also didn't taliban rise in swat have to do with similar thing? Landless people rising against zamindar pashtuns.

People of your ethnic background future is in Pakistan, unless ofcourse you are happy to become 2nd class citizens in racist society.

[Toramana]

And the system among pashtuns is caste based just like hindus. Don't forget your true roots. Yes there is such a thing as kammi in kpk, no matter what you call them. Hamsaya, kasabar, dom, etc Stop living in delusions, you are landless kammi and pashtuns are landowners.

I think the word "kammie" is a bit more discriminating than the word "hamsaya" which is not even a pure Pashto word as many have pointed here. Now words do carry social meanings and perceptions. A hamsaya simply means a neighbour, which means you are not a part of the dominant group but still are a neighbour.

Kammie on the other hand means inferior which is almost the same type of designation as "achoth" or "untouchable" in Hindu caste system albeit much moderated.

A kasabgar means "artisan". It doesn't carry the connotation of "being inferior" to that degree.

Did you read about low caste mazhabhi sikhs and landowners jatt sikhs in 1984? You was suggesting similar thing, why did khalistan movement fail? Because it was jatt sikh movement, mostly concentrated on western part of Indian punjab. Other sikhs especially khatris and mazhabhis supported Indian gov.

Landless low caste mazhabi sikhs quickly realized they will be ****ed in separate khalistan. Also didn't taliban rise in swat have to do with similar thing? Landless people rising against zamindar pashtuns.

People of your ethnic background future is in Pakistan, unless ofcourse you are happy to become 2nd class citizens in racist society.

I have much knowledge of the caste system in Punjab(both east, west), Sindh, India and I tell you on merit KP is far far better. Afghanistan is even better than KP.

As a kommie (lol), I will prefer KP to Punjab although I will stand with the victim and try to change things. And by the way things have changed in KP much much quicker. KP and other Pashtun areas are not just feudal prisons.

I am saying this on merit not against Punjab.

[tilla_jogian]

I think the word "kammie" is a bit more discriminating than the word "hamsaya" which is not even a pure Pashto word as many have pointed here. Now words do carry social meanings and perceptions. A hamsaya simply means a neighbour, which means you are not a part of the dominant group but still are a neighbour.

Kammie on the other hand means inferior which is almost the same type of designation as "achoth" or "untouchable" in Hindu caste system albeit much moderated.

A kasabgar means "artisan". It doesn't carry the connotation of "being inferior" to that degree.



I have much knowledge of the caste system in Punjab(both east, west), Sindh, India and I tell you on merit KP is far far better. Afghanistan is even better than KP.

As a kommie (lol), I will prefer KP than Punjab although I will stand with the victim and try to change things. And by the way things have changed in KP much much quicker. KP and other Pashtun areas are not just feudal prisons.

I am saying this on merit not against Punjab.

Only recently I have put some real sense in to you. And now you are telling you know about this system better then me? I know inner working of this system and how zamindar treat people like you lr think about them.

Artisan are tarkhans, karigars etc still known as kammi. First you need to know what kammi word actually mean.

Ok tell me what you guys call tarkhan, kasai, mochi, nai, mirasi etc what does kam-sal mean? Kammi is just word for kammi people which mean they are landless and are there to serve zamindars. Its not anymore degrading then what ever they call you. Kammi doesn't mean inferior. ''Kam'' mean work and kammi mean someone who work.

You are some piracha who are well off compared to other low caste people. You will prefer KPK as long as is part of Pakistan, otherwise your kin back home will suffer. While you enjoy your freedom in Canada.

[Kushan Prince]

I am not a Paracha but I am not a Pashtun (and Yousafzai) either. On one or two occasions, when I mentioned this to my Pashtun friends just in an academic context they were kind of upset as to why I am separating myself from Pashtuns. Lol-

Because I speak the same language and my family has lived for centuries with Pashtuns, my interests align with Pashtuns and I will put my lot with them but I will strive for every body to have the same rights and status.

By the way, this is increasingly becoming irrelevant as well. As I mentioned Malakand Division and Peshawar Valley have changed almost completely with tribal lineages no longer counting much in deciding a person's position in society.

And it is inevitable that the society will change more and with more rapidity.



Akhundkhels are Tajaks actually. They are the descendants of Akhun Dervaiza Baba who was a 16th-17th Century Saint of Tajak origin. This he writes himself in his "Tazkir-al- Abrar-wal-Ashrars".

Hmm, i did not know that. If you are telling the truth about lineage, then all the power to you. As for Akhund khels, there seems to different opinions on their ancestry. Some say they are descendants of Hazrat Usman from his third wife bibi naila which could indeed make them of Syed descent. They may have adopted the title "Tajik" since they were alien to the land and not of Pashtun origin.

Either way, their origins are obscure.

[khushal]

. you Kammi doesn't mean inferior. ''Kam'' mean work and kammi mean someone who work.

Many of these terms are from Moghul times since they were farsiwan. You dont really know the foundation of these terms.

"Kam" is farsi word. It means "less."

[khushal]

Afghanis are homosexuals, the main purpose they would invade any country would be to rape young boys.

are you talking from experience.

[khushal]

The whole world knows, you guys are famous for it

Why are you avoiding the question, is it because its true. Is that what happened to you?

[khushal]

Yes. An Afghani tried to rape a little boy in my neighbourhood. That little boy was another Afghani, maybe it was your father lol

Why are you getting mad. I asked you a question. We need to explore the psychological implications of your sexual experience with this Afghan man. It seems what your doing is what psychologists call transference. Your transferring your anger on to all Afghans. We need to help you cope so lets continue.

So your answer is Yes.

Next question:
Was this rape sanctioned by your village elders. I ask this because it is common in pakiland that village elders sanction rape as punishment and if so, what was your alleged crime that made the village elders sanctions this punishment.

[Smarty]

No rapes because people don't consider forcing on anyone as rape but part of culture. Look at gandool moderator proudly wishing to rape other members family. Forcing on bachas is also not considered rape lol

[MENTION=1068]gadoonwal[/MENTION] might be "wishing" but he knows very well that he is not capable of doing it. Thats the whole point, there are every kind of Koni and shameless individuals among Pashtuns but rape is unthinkable for them due to difficulty and consequences. Outsiders are not even allowed to roam around in a village without local reference. Pashtuns have strict local laws so rapes are rare, in areas where sharia is strictly enforced, rapes would also be rare there. If every rapist in Punjab pay the consequences for his act, cases of rapes would diminish. In every areas, people even form security patrol parties for protection of villages, this level of community sense and organization is absent in Punjab . Punjab and india has historically relied on rulers for protection and security, pashtuns have been protecting themselves and honour of their women on their own.

[khushal]

Tajiks are gay but they are better than Afkooni Pathans

Dose this mean that you also have sex experience with Tajik men and they are better.

Dude I mean no offence but I think you are on the wrong website if you are looking for Tajik and afghan men to have sex with you.

This is not a dating site.

[khushal]

Don't worry, I am not an Afghan, so how could I be gay?

Any site with Afghans on it is a gay dating site. Remember that.

Then why make a comment about how Tajik gay men are better than Afghan gay men and why are you looking for Gay websites and making a thread about it here on this Forum:
see here:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=46297

Your lost and confused, this is not a dating site.

[khushal]

[MENTION=1068]gadoonwal[/MENTION] might be "wishing" but he knows very well that he is not capable of doing it. Thats the whole point, there are every kind of Koni and shameless individuals among Pashtuns but rape is unthinkable for them due to difficulty and consequences. Outsiders are not even allowed to roam around in a village without local reference. Pashtuns have strict local laws so rapes are rare, in areas where sharia is strictly enforced, rapes would also be rare there. If every rapist in Punjab pay the consequences for his act, cases of rapes would diminish. In every areas, people even form security patrol parties for protection of villages, this level of community sense and organization is absent in Punjab . Punjab and india has historically relied on rulers for protection and security, pashtuns have been protecting themselves and honour of their women on their own.

Its the caste system. The upper caste think they have a RIGHT(HAQ) to rape people from the lower caste and the lower caste believe that they should not resist or they would be born again in a lower caste.

It is this mentality reinforced to them over generations that has made them submissive to all invaders.

[tilla_jogian]

@gadoonwal might be "wishing" but he knows very well that he is not capable of doing it. Thats the whole point, there are every kind of Koni and shameless individuals among Pashtuns but rape is unthinkable for them due to difficulty and consequences. Outsiders are not even allowed to roam around in a village without local reference. Pashtuns have strict local laws so rapes are rare, in areas where sharia is strictly enforced, rapes would also be rare there. If every rapist in Punjab pay the consequences for his act, cases of rapes would diminish. In every areas, people even form security patrol parties for protection of villages, this level of community sense and organization is absent in Punjab . Punjab and india has historically relied on rulers for protection and security, pashtuns have been protecting themselves and honour of their women on their own.

Gandon posts clearly point toward particular thinking and culture. Taliban when came to power used to force themselves on women. They believe its their right and not considered rape. Afghani refugees in Europe have become famous for gang rapes, again culture is given as excuse.

Children rapes are done openly in pashtun belt. Are these not considered rapes? Don't you guys have 1 kid to go along with to show mardangi?

As far as villages goes, rape rarely happen if ever. I only hear about murders but never rape. Village are small and different ball game compared to cities. You don't know jack **** about punjab villages, stick with your own unknown village. Lol

Rulers never protect anyone, especially in ancient times. Most things you say about pashtun do that and this are just normal tribal primitive rural society rules. Nothing really strange in them or unheard of even in Tamilnadu.