US Or Canada for Immigration?

[faye]

Comparison of the health care systems in Canada and the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[faye]

i met americans in india for operations and dentalcare, admin, that they could not afford in america. some of the people who become homeless and are not worthy of care from your government, are in that situation due to huge medical expenses.
i also know australians who are recovering from cancer, who did not have to go to america for treatment.

i don't doubt, as you appear to presume, that you have some very good universities etc, but that is only one side of the coin.
not everyone has the intelligence or the opportunity to be a university student.
my dad's parents couldn't afford for him to go to uni, which he wanted to do, and my parents couldn't afford to send me to art school but not because they were bums.

[Friend]

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Thats true. France's health care system stands to be the best.

[SiiNii]

Most of the homeless I've encountered are drug addicts or alcoholics and we need to open treatment centers for them. Or, they have mental issues and need to be cared for in institutions. That there doesn't seem to be any progress towards fixing the homeless situation is a scathing indictment of our society.

But - it shouldn't figure into your decision regarding where to immigrate.

[Admin Khan]

Comparison of the health care systems in Canada and the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Faye,
The rankings you posted are for 'System's. I told you this, and I will repeat, the USA will not spoon feed you. It will help you to a certain extent, it will pay for your school, your university education, etc. If you are a drug addict, you receive some kind of a stipend, however, that is not enough to live a lavish life nor does the health care system cater for such people. France is a welfare country, like Canada, that will give you health care, but tax your behind off. I say it openly, the USA does not have the best SYSTEM, but it does have the best resources; and if you are educated you can take advantage of it all. France does NOT have the world's best medical schools, or hospitals, there are situations where the French are running to New York cause they want to see a certain specialist, the reverse is never true.

Like I said Faye, speaking of health care of once again, the world's top doctors, and the world's top medical schools, the world's best hospitals, along with the world's best universities, are in the USA(which fuels the economy, which is why the economy of Manhattan is the size of Australia's, get it?).

Best,

[Friend]

Faye,
The rankings you posted are for 'System's. I told you this, and I will repeat, the USA will not spoon feed you. It will help you to a certain extent, it will pay for your school, your university education, etc. If you are a drug addict, you receive some kind of a stipend, however, that is not enough to live a lavish life nor does the health care system cater for such people. France is a welfare country, like Canada, that will give you health care, but tax your behind off. I say it openly, the USA does not have the best SYSTEM, but it does have the best resources; and if you are educated you can take advantage of it all. France does NOT have the world's best medical schools, or hospitals, there are situations where the French are running to New York cause they want to see a certain specialist, the reverse is never true.

Like I said Faye, speaking of health care of once again, the world's top doctors, and the world's top medical schools, the world's best hospitals, along with the world's best universities, are in the USA(which fuels the economy, which is why the economy of Manhattan is the size of Australia's, get it?).

Best,

Thats true the doctors in France are qualified from America. may be they dont have the best medical school but the healthcare system is very good.

[faye]

Most of the homeless I've encountered are drug addicts or alcoholics and we need to open treatment centers for them. Or, they have mental issues and need to be cared for in institutions. That there doesn't seem to be any progress towards fixing the homeless situation is a scathing indictment of our society.

But - it shouldn't figure into your decision regarding where to immigrate.

i had a lot of involvement with the homeless and a couple of drug addicts, in seattle.
one guy i knew from an organisation assisting the homeless, told me that some people become mentally ill/unstable BECAUSE they are on the streets. no where to wash, go toilet, in a society that abhors or ignores them and other factors like fear and stress. the common theme i heard from americans, is that the 'homeless people, choose to be there'.
i was with a group of american fellow workers, in the winter, in the rain and a man with no legs in a wheelchair was begging. i went and gave him some money and thinking of his situation made me get tears in my eyes. my best american friend, with me, said he had never seen anyone respond this way, to homeless people, before.

[faye]

Faye,
The rankings you posted are for 'System's. I told you this, and I will repeat, the USA will not spoon feed you. It will help you to a certain extent, it will pay for your school, your university education, etc. If you are a drug addict, you receive some kind of a stipend, however, that is not enough to live a lavish life nor does the health care system cater for such people. France is a welfare country, like Canada, that will give you health care, but tax your behind off. I say it openly, the USA does not have the best SYSTEM, but it does have the best resources; and if you are educated you can take advantage of it all. France does NOT have the world's best medical schools, or hospitals, there are situations where the French are running to New York cause they want to see a certain specialist, the reverse is never true.

Like I said Faye, speaking of health care of once again, the world's top doctors, and the world's top medical schools, the world's best hospitals, along with the world's best universities, are in the USA(which fuels the economy, which is why the economy of Manhattan is the size of Australia's, get it?).

Best,

what you call 'spoon feed', i call assistance. if you are not helping the jobless and poor you are open to more crime. anything that goes to the assistance of the poor goes straight back into the economic system, as it is usually a basic, just get by on, amount.
so, how much are you spending on 'spoon feeding' those behind bars?

you keep talking about all these freebies, then how come there are so many with these student debts? is it only free for those from outside the country?

since i have seen with my own eyes, the homeless, it is not a generalistion, it is what i saw in america, as compared to india and about 25 other countries i have been to.

you know admin, i really don't care if you have the best of these things, because it does not seem to make americans, in general, any better, healthier or more intelligent than other people. in fact, many higher educated people in america are white collar criminals, initiators and supporters of american hegemony and more wars.
i just think that when one is to educate one should give the full story.

re; physics of the poet? a poet who attains wisdom of god, must have earned it, through personal jihad, upon his own ego, pride, nationalism and attachment to this world.

[SiiNii]

if you are not helping the jobless and poor you are open to more crime.

My family was jobless and poor for a while and I grew up around many who were the same way, one step away from being on welfare. But we never had to resort to crime to obtain food shelter education or clean water. Nobody in the United States does its free!* People who use this excuse to commit crimes are lying to you because they know you have soft hearts and will believe it. This isn't the days of Oliver Twist. Poor kids steal not because they need to eat but for the thrill of the crime, the respect of their peers and older kids, laziness to earn, simply its 'the thing to do'. The same can be applied to many other petty crimes. I know this because these thieves were my friends and I was one myself.

* Here are a few and the list goes on:
Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) | Food and Nutrition Service
Housing Choice Voucher Program Section 8
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)
US Welfare System - Help for US Citizens
various public education free school breakfast and lunch programs

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Admin,

I obviously have conflicts of interest here - but I think I can provide a solid example of American prowess in the medical world to illustrate the chasm of difference between the innovative psyche in this system and what is going on abroad.

echocardiography is a way to assess heart function, NONINVASIVELY via ultrasound. The other ways we have to do this are with catheters that are placed via a vein in the neck and floated into the inlet of the lung circulation (swan ganz catheterization).

Now, we have visiting Chinese professors from China's top medical institute coming to see how we run echocardiography here in the US. The problem with many foreign countries is that ultrasound technologists both perform and interpret the echo. In the US, its the heart doctor himself who learns to perform and interpret this data (as you grow in the ranks techs do the echo but you are the one that is expected to view them). So to reiterate, what this means is that in China's top institutes, technologists, and not doctors are utilizing echocardiograms to make assessments.

To show you the innovation of the Americans, I refer you to this excellent paper that is one of my favorites:

http://www.problemsinanes.com/pt/re/...?nav=reference

It lays the basis for using a completely noninvasive approach (echocardiography) as a surrogate for swan (admittedly this is highly operator dependent).

This was such an important development that the modern father of the field weighed in an article entitled very aptly:

Echocardiography as a Noninvasive Swan Ganz Catheter

http://www.problemsinanes.com/pt/re/...?nav=reference

I mean that is AMAZING. It lays the foundation for the development of noninvasive ways to monitor patients in an ICU setting. Companies both here and abroad (Israel) are now developing such technology to be one day implemented. It will take a long time, but what we may be able to see one day is a device engineered to be placed by the physician on the patient's chest (preferably nonobese ) and it can transmit the hemodynamics in a noninvasive way that limits some of the criticisms given to more invasive approaches.

This brand of innovation is uniquely American in its flavor.

Does that mean that American doctors are inherently more awesome or better etc? No, I dont think thats the case as the clinical skill sets of those from places where they do not rely as much on technology is at times sharper than our own. But these same folks usually lament the lack of technological prowess in their own countries.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

The other thing that most visiting professors are awed by is how trainees are given such wide access and held as members of the team. British trained physicians are constantly astounded by how trainees can run a large assembly report while the elder more knowledgable professionals sit in the same room and contribute in a way that builds on the socratic method. They cannot believe how we were able to debate, discuss, and offer our diagnostic opinions to those elder physicians who pretty much invented the foundations of the field. They are astounded by how there is not this culture of a rigid heirarchy (though there is still an important heirarchy to be aware of) where a trainee cannot even look his senior in the eye - but rather how everyone is expected to speak and contribute.

Is there waste in our system??? Sure, here is an excellent paper Ill dig up discussing how certain device and surgical procedures have only lateralized and not advanced care resulting in cost to the American peopel and the consumer. But even the fact that we have MPHs to research and bring this to light is a testament to how advanced this system is.

[SiiNii]

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

in your face & KP

[Admin Khan]

BA,
You are spot on. Most highly educated Canadians sooner or later leave Canada for the USA, since the USA offers more opportunities with better resources that encourages research and innovation. The same is true for most countries. Every nation in the world suffers from a brain drain to the USA. If Australia has 100 geniuses, each of the 100 will more than likely aim for MIT, Stanford, UC Berkeley, Yale, Princeton, Harvard, CalTech, UIUC, Columbia; and if they get reject(which happens quite often, since the aforementioned generally admits Olympians from international competitions), they settle for the top 20-100, which still offers better opportunities and research than most schools on earth.

Orthopedic surgeons in Canada make less than half the $440,000 average net income of colleagues in the States while doing more procedures, two U.S. health-policy professors concluded in one of the most detailed looks yet at the differences in doctor compensation between nations.

Canada should not ignore the wage gap, as a sudden shortage of certain specialists in the States could trigger a drain from here, said Dr. John Haggie, president of the Canadian Medical Association. Canada saw a net loss of doctors to the U.S. in the 1990s, as provinces instituted doctor pay caps and tried to rein-in fee increases as a way to corral health costs.

Canadian doctors still make dramatically less than U.S. counterparts: study | News | National Post

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Uh oh the T-man-a has logged on and activated reflexively. Looks like I am about to get an ikhwani comment coming my way for discussing American technology.

[faye]

by the way, admin khan, it is not my fault that there are reports like these, about american education lagging behind. i have seen them and documentary reports for a few years now.
New Report Shows U.S. Lagging on Education Indicators - US News and World Report

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-19/the-real-reason-americas-schools-stink