Toramana appreciation thread

[IamDZJ]

I dont see why our concern should concern you

and by the way it's not concern, it's jest.

mine is curiosity not concern. mind you edge, you are fine and all that but you fight like women. that is an ability even i being a woman don't admire.

[ScimitarXEdge]

mine is curiosity not concern. mind you edge, you are fine and all that but you fight like women. that is an ability even i being a woman don't admire.

You perceive it that way because of your own mode of behavior; but it's really not that dramatic.You fail to see that you're what you despise.

[IamDZJ]

unfortunately for you, people and their interests or lack of it has nor ever will concern me.

there is a lot more to a person's being before their being of a man or a woman. i am many things before i am a woman.. that is something they forget about themselves as well as others. once again, it doesn't bother me.

[Baygham]

Also, regarding the Afghan King you speak of: remember Abdurrahman Khan, aka the Iron Amir, the forefather of the modern opportunist and sloppy politician, "Prince" Ali Seraj was maintained in power by the British and for the British. In Qandahar he devastated the Durrani confederacy and deported many of our tribal members to northern Afghanistan, guaranteeing the outcome we see today in terms of internicine strife. He also endorsed the durand line. What is interesting is that Dost Mohammad and Amanullah, each with a bit more of internal legitimacy, left the Nursitanis and others well enough alone compared to the Iron Amir. So once again, the fruits of western interventionalism were bitter for Afghanistan.

"Abdur Rahman was officially recognized as Amir, granted assistance in arms and money, and promised, in case of unprovoked foreign aggression, such further aid as might be necessary to repel it, provided that he align his foreign policy with the British. The British evacuation of Afghanistan was settled on the terms proposed, and in 1881, the British troops also handed over Kandahar to the new Amir."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdur_Rahman_Khan

so he did it to please the british, wow, they did give him muscats, but not to kill tor kafir whom they hardly counted as significant. he saw an oppurtunity that the afghans were waiting for, for centuries and that was the only reason no one else attempted before him, they remembered what happened to Tamur.
was the queen directing Tamurlane too, whose puppet was he, (I dont think Jeferson kaka was around) remember he tried to wipe them out centuries before as well. These damn tur kafir, damn hard to kill.

Regarding the usage of the term sur kafir: the point here was not to degrade Matthew Hoh, Michael Scheuer, or any of my American colleagues. Rather my point was to show you that someone with no investment in the Pakistani establishment, a marine commander with a conservative track record, an the head of the Afghan study group, a Christian without any support of Pan Islamism take the data you analyzed and comes to a completely different conclusion than you. Moreover, hypothesis that subseqeuntly were put out by him prove true again and again because his interpretation provides a dynamic ground level model for which to predict outcomes.

now you are being a simpleton, wrora. The pakistani establishment is the second biggest investment of the united states army after isreal. And Do you even know how much money is made on just the contractor side of this war (mostly by ex military guys). He is probably shifting to south sudan for more lucrative action and is throwing some nonsense for excuse and guys are falling over because a "sur kafar" said it, must be absolutely true.
His tenure appears to be getting over and a lucrative consultancy is likely being sought.

America is the best thing that has happened to us since slice bread. Now we have to learn to eat bread with some nice Jam and butter.LOL

[BarakzaiAbdali]

so he did it to please the british, wow, they did give him muscats, but not to kill tor kafir whom they hardly counted as significant. he saw an oppurtunity that the afghans were waiting for, for centuries and that was the only reason no one else attempted before him, they remembered what happened to Tamur.
was the queen directing Tamurlane too, whose puppet was he, (I dont think Jeferson kaka was around) remember he tried to wipe them out centuries before as well. These damn tur kafir, damn hard to kill.

now you are being a simpleton, wrora. The pakistani establishment is the second biggest investment of the united states army after isreal. And Do you even know how much money is made on just the contractor side of this war (mostly by ex military guys). He is probably shifting to south sudan for more lucrative action and is throwing some nonsense for excuse and guys are falling over because a "sur kafar" said it, must be absolutely true.
His tenure appears to be getting over and a lucrative consultancy is likely being sought.

America is the best thing that has happened to us since slice bread. Now we have to learn to eat bread with some nice Jam and butter.LOL

They could have easily killed them in Abdali's time, what stopped them then? The point was that Amir Dost Muhammad was in general, a moderate stabilizing force... Abdurrahman was a disaster and left behind disaster in his wake that screwed us over to this day. The British did not take over his cerebral cortex, but his stupidity is no different than Saddam's was for his country or Shah Pehlavi's was for his own country. How you can argue that an outside imposed leader will have the greater likelihood of caring for his nation and improving it against the evidences just in the modern world show an astounding naivete.

Regarding Hoh and Scheuer, they sacrificed personal gain and ambitions. No lucrative oil contracts for those guys... instead Scheuer subsequently lost a high ranked fellow position at the Jamestown foundation for continued speaking out and Hoh heads up the Afghan study group:

http://www.afghanistanstudygroup.org...r-afghanistan/

http://www.antiwar.com/scheuer/?articleid=14221

So try again brother... as usual you imposed a narrative that somehow grew in your own mind. You should be an author as your fiction skills are impressive to say the least!

[BarakzaiAbdali]

so he did it to please the british, wow, they did give him muscats, but not to kill tor kafir whom they hardly counted as significant. he saw an oppurtunity that the afghans were waiting for, for centuries and that was the only reason no one else attempted before him, they remembered what happened to Tamur.
was the queen directing Tamurlane too, whose puppet was he, (I dont think Jeferson kaka was around) remember he tried to wipe them out centuries before as well. These damn tur kafir, damn hard to kill.

now you are being a simpleton, wrora. The pakistani establishment is the second biggest investment of the united states army after isreal. And Do you even know how much money is made on just the contractor side of this war (mostly by ex military guys). He is probably shifting to south sudan for more lucrative action and is throwing some nonsense for excuse and guys are falling over because a "sur kafar" said it, must be absolutely true.
His tenure appears to be getting over and a lucrative consultancy is likely being sought.

America is the best thing that has happened to us since slice bread. Now we have to learn to eat bread with some nice Jam and butter.LOL

Also, America might very well be the best thing that has happend to Afghanistan because it appears to be a war that will once again, show on the fence supporters that the the acolytes of Osama Bin Ladin and the Taliban were correct that a superpower can be defeated with little arms and a lot of resolve and faith. It will happen slowly and surely, but it appears to be happening.

This is why I take exception with your view. You do not understand that you are actually hurting our new adopted country with your advocacy of adventurism and fighting demons abroad. The goal of America's adversaries is to involve us in a series of foreign expeditions to spread our forces thin and hammer our economy. They were overjoyed with the Iraqi invasion as that completley devastated America's security and regional agenda.

So it may very well be the case that as the Afghans once again earn their freedom and slough off another empire's hand, that a renewel will occur once and for all as the outside powers recede. In this way, America's presence is a blessing, but for her enemies brother.

This is exactly why you lead our fellow countrymen down the dark path of destruction and send them where you ought to be going to fight in their place. I prefer you to be airdropped into Wana with a M16 and allowed to form a sqaudron with Toramana and Maseed. You guys could call yourself the C-Team.

[Baygham]

Also, America might very well be the best thing that has happend to Afghanistan because it appears to be a war that will once again, show on the fence supporters that the the acolytes of Osama Bin Ladin and the Taliban were correct that a superpower can be defeated with little arms and a lot of resolve and faith. It will happen slowly and surely, but it appears to be happening.

This is why I take exception with your view. You do not understand that you are actually hurting our new adopted country with your advocacy of adventurism and fighting demons abroad. The goal of America's adversaries is to involve us in a series of foreign expeditions to spread our forces thin and hammer our economy. They were overjoyed with the Iraqi invasion as that completley devastated America's security and regional agenda.

So it may very well be the case that as the Afghans once again earn their freedom and slough off another empire's hand, that a renewel will occur once and for all as the outside powers recede. In this way, America's presence is a blessing, but for her enemies brother.

This is exactly why you lead our fellow countrymen down the dark path of destruction and send them where you ought to be going to fight in their place. I prefer you to be airdropped into Wana with a M16 and allowed to form a sqaudron with Toramana and Maseed. You guys could call yourself the C-Team.

Stop pretending to be a patriotic american, which you are not. You will blow this great country tomorrow for arabian honor. Just for what is written on the wall in the Jefferson memorial I will let a thousand talibs perish, if it is threatened. to be honest, I dont even consider it american, america is a human achievement, build by humans from all corners of the world. I want the land of my father and forefathers to prosper and shine like America has. A red neck in Texas or that biatch from alaska, what the hell they know about Jefferson or what made this country great, I do feel threatened by them and the christen right who bring Jesus to everything, and I am not too thrilled by these liberal idiots either, who constantly spew bull crap like chomsky. Not understanding what is at stake.

American foriegn policy has made many mistakes, when personal ambition of the likes of Kessinger and other front man for military industrial complex have tarnished what has otherwise been the greatest human achievement. A nation which lets the best in an individual come out, which lets you live to the fullest, to tackle previously unthinkable challenges, the moon, medicine, physics, arts, brain sciences. Not for a few nobles and aristrocrats but for millions and millions of ordinary people.

[Baygham]

They could have easily killed them in Abdali's time, what stopped them then? The point was that Amir Dost Muhammad was in general, a moderate stabilizing force... Abdurrahman was a disaster and left behind disaster in his wake that screwed us over to this day. The British did not take over his cerebral cortex, but his stupidity is no different than Saddam's was for his country or Shah Pehlavi's was for his own country. How you can argue that an outside imposed leader will have the greater likelihood of caring for his nation and improving it against the evidences just in the modern world show an astounding naivete.

Regarding Hoh and Scheuer, they sacrificed personal gain and ambitions. No lucrative oil contracts for those guys... instead Scheuer subsequently lost a high ranked fellow position at the Jamestown foundation for continued speaking out and Hoh heads up the Afghan study group:

http://www.afghanistanstudygroup.org...r-afghanistan/

http://www.antiwar.com/scheuer/?articleid=14221

So try again brother... as usual you imposed a narrative that somehow grew in your own mind. You should be an author as your fiction skills are impressive to say the least!

If the mighty tamurlane could not kill them, the puny abdali most certainly could not. Secondly why would he waste his breath on desolate nuristan when the riches of India lay bare. He may have been many things but i dont think abdali baba was a fool. If india had been settled, and his army free, along with myth of treasure in nuristan ripe, they would be sunny muslims a century earlier, i agree.

Never have I advocated a subservient role for pashtoons viz a viz a foriegn power. To me the arabs are as alien to pashtoon as american. May be more, because now that america is here ( i did not invite either them or the arabs) I rather side with them and use it as an opportunity to guide ourself to a future where some of the good of america can be replicated in watan. i see no good coming out of hijaz or raiwand or jaddah that is worth a single pashtoon red blood corpuscle.

I also know that america cannot and will not stay forever in afghanistan. The damn arab backed lunatics will for sure stay for a very long time. So even more paranoia.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Stop pretending to be a patriotic american, which you are not. You will blow this great country tomorrow for arabian honor. Just for what is written on the wall in the Jefferson memorial I will let a thousand talibs perish, if it is threatened. to be honest, I dont even consider it american, america is a human achievement, build by humans from all corners of the world. I want the land of my father and forefathers to prosper and shine like America has. A red neck in Texas or that biatch from alaska, what the hell they know about Jefferson or what made this country great, I do feel threatened by them and the christen right who bring Jesus to everything, and I am not too thrilled by these liberal idiots either, who constantly spew bull crap like chomsky. Not understanding what is at stake.

American foriegn policy has made many mistakes, when personal ambition of the likes of Kessinger and other front man for military industrial complex have tarnished what has otherwise been the greatest human achievement. A nation which lets the best in an individual come out, which lets you live to the fullest, to tackle previously unthinkable challenges, the moon, medicine, physics, arts, brain sciences. Not for a few nobles and aristrocrats but for millions and millions of ordinary people.

Hardly, I know I am more patriotic than you as I prefer that my fellow citizens that I grew up with avoid death and destruction. My best friend is an American Marine that is a Catholic redneck raised in Alabama serving in Bagram. Rather, it appears that you are willing to spill the blood of those whose forefathers built this country to further your vain desires over there.

Once again your ability to delete history and stated intentions of an occupier buttresses your fiction writing capability. When they (they meaning the neocons that you endorse) state that their goal is to send a man from Swabi to the moon you can be the first to volunteer for that role. I am sure that you can follow right along with those Egyptians, Tunisians, Iraqis, Iranians pre revolution, Pakistanis as of now, and step into history following their astronaut teams that the Americans have all sent to the moon. Then you can also hug the nobel prize winner in Physics when the Americans build the first collider lab in Swabi for you... right?

Are you this naieve?

Then, when you wake up from this dream that the constitution and progress follow the march of the flag and realize that instead of an astronauts suit you are wearing a red, white, and blue clown suit.

Once again, I urge you to take Toramana, Maseed, and yourself and fight those Arab inspired fanatics over there. You can find Fazlullah first and then take care of ole Hakimullah on your side of the durand fence brother. Though I figure you will feel far more comfortable as an arm chair warrior crying about "what is at stake."

What is at stake? Civilization because some rag tag group of people that comprise an enemy that is 3 feet tall that you have made 13 feet tall is going to nuke us? We could turn that whole place into green glass in 3 seconds if we wanted to.

Ill tell you what is at stake: its you, learning to shoot an M16 and going in place of my medical school roommate to Bagram so that he can sleep in his bed in Alabama at night while you deal with your own mess.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

If the mighty tamurlane could not kill them, the puny abdali most certainly could not. Secondly why would he waste his breath on desolate nuristan when the riches of India lay bare. He may have been many things but i dont think abdali baba was a fool. If india had been settled, and his army free, along with myth of treasure in nuristan ripe, they would be sunny muslims a century earlier, i agree.

Never have I advocated a subservient role for pashtoons viz a viz a foriegn power. To me the arabs are as alien to pashtoon as american. May be more, because now that america is here ( i did not invite either them or the arabs) I rather side with them and use it as an opportunity to guide ourself to a future where some of the good of america can be replicated in watan. i see no good coming out of hijaz or raiwand or jaddah that is worth a single pashtoon red blood corpuscle.

I also know that america cannot and will not stay forever in afghanistan. The damn arab backed lunatics will for sure stay for a very long time. So even more paranoia.

Mayhap you did not invite them, but the rest of Pashtunistan appeared to do so and welcomed them with open arms from Wardag to Qandahar. They fought alongside the Pashtuns and expelled the Russian jaugernaut.

Once again, your next work of fiction ought to be called:
A Brave New Pashtun World by Baygham

In it you can continue to imagine that the American Tooth Ferry is there to "benefit" you. Have you seen the cheap crap that the firms are using to build the Afghan infrastructure? Somehow in your warped world, they are transplanting the financial district of Manhattan to Qandahar. Such fiction is amazing in its capacity to avoid coming to grips with reality.

If you like them so much, please take them to Khybar Pashtunkhwa and let them stay in Swabi... it appears that we do not want them in our neck of the woods.

[Baygham]

Hardly, I know I am more patriotic than you as I prefer that my fellow citizens that I grew up with avoid death and destruction. My best friend is an American Marine that is a Catholic redneck raised in Alabama serving in Bagram. Rather, it appears that you are willing to spill the blood of those whose forefathers built this country to further your vain desires over there.

Once again your ability to delete history and stated intentions of an occupier buttresses your fiction writing capability. When they (they meaning the neocons that you endorse) state that their goal is to send a man from Swabi to the moon you can be the first to volunteer for that role. I am sure that you can follow right along with those Egyptians, Tunisians, Iraqis, Iranians pre revolution, Pakistanis as of now, and step into history following their astronaut teams that the Americans have all sent to the moon. Then you can also hug the nobel prize winner in Physics when the Americans build the first collider lab in Swabi for you... right?

Are you this naieve?

Then, when you wake up from this dream that the constitution and progress follow the march of the flag and realize that instead of an astronauts suit you are wearing a red, white, and blue clown suit.

Once again, I urge you to take Toramana, Maseed, and yourself and fight those Arab inspired fanatics over there. You can find Fazlullah first and then take care of ole Hakimullah on your side of the durand fence brother. Though I figure you will feel far more comfortable as an arm chair warrior crying about "what is at stake."

What is at stake? Civilization because some rag tag group of people that comprise an enemy that is 3 feet tall that you have made 13 feet tall is going to nuke us? We could turn that whole place into green glass in 3 seconds if we wanted to.

Ill tell you what is at stake: its you, learning to shoot an M16 and going in place of my medical school roommate to Bagram so that he can sleep in his bed in Alabama at night while you deal with your own mess.

If he is scarred help him return the money he took for college, or did you do the same and now you are peeing in your pants. Its a volunteer army, were you guys drunk when you volunteered. Chi ookhan saathi no darwazee ba dhangi saathi, tinga ka. Now even the dont ask dont tell can be used. Other wise you two could have arranged some drama, if you get my drift. LOL.

As we are having this imaginary policy talk, 150000 soldiers from NATO and a quarter of million others are in Afghanistan. I honestly dont remember sending a single invitation. But I wont mind 150000 in pakhtunkwha, do you have some more roommates, guys come over and payoff the loans that you took. Where is Rumsfield kaka when you need him.

[Alchemist]

Dr. Abdali,
Every time I read this bayghairat's opinion I feel sick to my stomach.
It is such an unsettling feeling to know that there exists an Afghan who has been so subjugated and indoctrinated by the enemies of his forefather, that he would rather kill his own than tarnish the "highest achievement of humanity". He must be referring to the colonial prowess of Americans as they efficiently exterminated the indigenous, used negros for their plantations, and made war in other countries and keeps the largest arsenal of nuclear weapons. Oh yeah, but those damn arabs...they brought Islam which is the what causes him nightmares...and you sit there dabbling with this fool like his opinion is valuable?
This fool watches his sister date americans...it goes without saying that he wants america to run afghanistan. When did the arabs ever rule over afghanistan? You are talking about 300 years ago ..this fool is ranting about 1400 years ago...he hates islam, he hates the fact that 99% of Pashtuns are muslims so why do you keep taking the stick and stirring his b.s? Please doc ... you are causing more harm than good this way.

[Baygham]

Dr. Abdali,
Every time I read this bayghairat's opinion I feel sick to my stomach.
It is such an unsettling feeling to know that there exists an Afghan who has been so subjugated and indoctrinated by the enemies of his forefather, that he would rather kill his own than tarnish the "highest achievement of humanity". He must be referring to the colonial prowess of Americans as they efficiently exterminated the indigenous, used negros for their plantations, and made war in other countries and keeps the largest arsenal of nuclear weapons. Oh yeah, but those damn arabs...they brought Islam which is the what causes him nightmares...and you sit there dabbling with this fool like his opinion is valuable?
This fool watches his sister date americans...it goes without saying that he wants america to run afghanistan. When did the arabs ever rule over afghanistan? You are talking about 300 years ago ..this fool is ranting about 1400 years ago...he hates islam, he hates the fact that 99% of Pashtuns are muslims so why do you keep taking the stick and stirring his b.s? Please doc ... you are causing more harm than good this way.

Dear BA, heed the advice of your fellow chakra inspired alchemist, run run for beygham may eat you alive, he is a big "baww". His sister dates americans, how scary. And he would kidnap all your roommates, and put them on guard duty in waziristan.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

If he is scarred help him return the money he took for college, or did you do the same and now you are peeing in your pants. Its a volunteer army, were you guys drunk when you volunteered. Chi ookhan saathi no darwazee ba dhangi saathi, tinga ka. Now even the dont ask dont tell can be used. Other wise you two could have arranged some drama, if you get my drift. LOL.

As we are having this imaginary policy talk, 150000 soldiers from NATO and a quarter of million others are in Afghanistan. I honestly dont remember sending a single invitation. But I wont mind 150000 in pakhtunkwha, do you have some more roommates, guys come over and payoff the loans that you took. Where is Rumsfield kaka when you need him.

Sorry to ruin yet another fiction generated storyline that you started. Seriously, you must write these down as you could collect a short story book out of them. This can be about a doctor that you suspect is madhabi salafi with a long flowing beard who wears a koofi to work and yet has taken many loans and yanks at the paaryaan tombaan of the devotees as they line up for prayer.

The reality is, my friend, my tuition was free as I was educated through a physician scientist/MSTP pathway my friend! So by God's grace, I have $0.00 loan debt.

His family has served in the military since the confederacy and he had no fear whatsoever of going.

The issue though is that you have not served or ever fired a pistol... are you ready to be air dropped into Wana? Are you ready to quit emulating Rumsfeld kaka who would be doing what you do and sending others to hunt Fazlullah and Hakimullah down for you?

I can see it now... a dusty Waziristan day and a helicopter overhead... Mazlum Yaar Massed is a little slow so he doesnt deploy his parachute on time. The last two members of the C-Team, Toramana and Baygham must brave the elements to catch two rogue mullahs and save Khybar Pashtunkhwa.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Dear BA, heed the advice of your fellow chakra inspired alchemist, run run for beygham may eat you alive, he is a big "baww". His sister dates americans, how scary. And he would kidnap all your roommates, and put them on guard duty in waziristan.

Remember, reality is a whole lot more entertaining Baygham. Please join us there one day. You will require the following tools: a grasp on logic, evidence for statements, losing that ability to generate filler storylines for what you do not know of history, a compass for your upcoming C Team battle in Waziristan!