Toramana appreciation thread

[Baygham]

Great hedging answer.

I read that back and forth with Wrayun way back when. Do you live on some Pashtun colony on Mars comprised of folks that have lost complete touch with reality?

What kind of sick nut case are you? Oh right, the kind that somehow ignores American, Russian, and every other nation's textbooks on Najib and somehow turns a ******* into a saint.

People like you ought to be airdropped right into the middle of Kandahar so you can see how long you last when you mouth your filth in the open. That, my friend, would be the ultimate real world test of your ideology.

See how long you last in any village chowk with a loud horn when you say what you do. At least your colleague Osho had enough sense to admit that the Pashtun majority think of you guys as depraved automatons mouthing the same rhetoric as if you read off the same script.

Why are you so "garam". Sarra khra wrora, I have no intention of fighting with you or any one else here. I have my point of view and you have yours.

How many of kandaharis will let you put a stent through the groin of there daughter/sister. Does that make it right if she dies with preventable disease that you could have expertly cured.

You take a loud horn and say, I took mullah omars sister to the cath lab and cleaned her groin with betadine, (just verbatum translate the cath report in pashto) and I will see how long you stand in the chowk in kandahar. And if that does not get you killed narrate a colonoscopy report on mullah baradar, he is likely due for one. LOL

With village idiots you talk at their level. If you are that idiot please let me know so I make corrections to my reports.

[randolph85]

You Pashtuns just don\'t get it.

explain it to me since i am just a dumb pashtun and persian nationalists seem to have such a handle on broad religious understanding. go ahead and tell me why an arabized religion is against ethnic nationalism.

[Parsistani]

explain it to me since i am just a dumb pashtun and persian nationalists seem to have such a handle on broad religious understanding. go ahead and tell me why an arabized religion is against ethnic nationalism.

Islam has also been used by Arabs to represent Arab nationalism and to keep Arab language strong. Look at how when Arabs invaded Persia they burned our books and they killed our intellectuals. It was Saudi who funded the Taliban

[Baygham]

Islam has also been used by Arabs to represent Arab nationalism and to keep Arab language strong. Look at how when Arabs invaded Persia they burned our books and they killed our intellectuals. It was Saudi who funded the Taliban

I am with you bro, but just let me know one thing before I march in your company. Which religion do you subscribe to.

I do agree this arab nationalism has killed not only persian heritage, it has killed pashtoon heritage as well.

[randolph85]

Islam has also been used by Arabs to represent Arab nationalism and to keep Arab language strong. Look at how when Arabs invaded Persia they burned our books and they killed our intellectuals. It was Saudi who funded the Taliban

so the learning of the language of the quran is nationalism to u? if someone wants to read rumi, would u recommend a foreign language or farsi?

how did the arabs kill ur intellectuals when persian muslim scholars were the backbone of islamic works? tell me the people the arabs killed, go ahead.

and what is ur point that the saudis funded the taliban? so the did pakis. the russians, indians, and iranians funded the northern alliance. countries with interests fund movements who are friendly to them, is that such a big suprise to u?

[Wrayun]

Islam has also been used by Arabs to represent Arab nationalism and to keep Arab language strong. Look at how when Arabs invaded Persia they burned our books and they killed our intellectuals. It was Saudi who funded the Taliban

Really? How many non-Arab states today speak Arabic? Majority of the Muslims today speak their own respective languages, and majority of the Muslims are not even Arabs. Arabs, that includes Arabized Arabs, make only 13% of the Muslims.

And what Islam did for Persian...how can you forget that Persian, became the lingua franca of many Islamic states, including the area which today is divided into Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Muslim regions of India. Persians also use Islam to export their culture, under the banner of Shiaism. Sunnism exports Arabism, particularly the Salafi types. Deobandi and Bravelis export their own respective cultures/heritage using Islam. So all in all, every one has used Islam to export their culture and heritage. Even Taliban exported Pukhtoonism, using Islam. Don't take my word for it, that's what all the Parsiwanan said and still say till this day.

If anything, Islam and Quran, exports Abrahamic/Hebrew beliefs and traditions. Islam was as alien to Arabs as it is to Persians and Pukhtoons.

Get a book.

[Parsistani]

I am with you bro, but just let me know one thing before I march in your company. Which religion do you subscribe to.

I do agree this arab nationalism has killed not only persian heritage, it has killed pashtoon heritage as well.

please read my article in your pashtun culture section.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Why are you so "garam". Sarra khra wrora, I have no intention of fighting with you or any one else here. I have my point of view and you have yours.

How many of kandaharis will let you put a stent through the groin of there daughter/sister. Does that make it right if she dies with preventable disease that you could have expertly cured.

You take a loud horn and say, I took mullah omars sister to the cath lab and cleaned her groin with betadine, (just verbatum translate the cath report in pashto) and I will see how long you stand in the chowk in kandahar. And if that does not get you killed narrate a colonoscopy report on mullah baradar, he is likely due for one. LOL

With village idiots you talk at their level. If you are that idiot please let me know so I make corrections to my reports.

Actually on the medical mission through Waziristan, through the proper channels and through what even the Americans understand is utilizing a cultural respect, I was able to deal with many many women and that was an american medical student doing an abroad rotation.

Your question is nonsensical. In America, if I catheterized Pamela Anderson and then stood in the Chowk in front of her husbands house announcing I had done that, I think he would be offended and might attack me as well.

I am merely pointing out that Toramana, and perhaps yourself back the US incursions. Have you studied your history? Do you not yet see a pattern emerging? This is not, as the ANP chapters would love the populace to believe, some sort of new inflammatory reaction where the Mullah class popped out of nowhere.

Just as the body has its B memory cells... so too does the Pashtun have his patterns of uprising. Mir Wais Neka -->secured a fatwa for war; Ahmad Shah Baba --> secured a fatwa for war and was a student of Shah Waliullah; Wazir Akbar --> referred to his hit and run campaigns on the British as jihad and his troops as the ghazis. Ahmad Yusufzai the barelvi --> Unified jihad against the Sikhs. Amanullah the Kamalist even called his Anglo Afghan wars a jihaad and rallied the Wazirs to his banner.

So how can you as a physician not understand that for about the past 1000 years or so the Pashtuns, like many Muslim cultures, respond to outside invaders (germs) the same way that our body does (it has a memorized pathway).

To me, its like you mix up cause and effect. You cry out against what you see is extremism and abuse against females etc, yet that to me, is like calling the fever and chills the cause, and the infection the effect.

Think about all the mess of invaders in that area in just the last 300 years (the Iranians against Mir Wais, then again under Nadir Shah, the Mughals, the British, the Russians, and now the Americans).

Just as the Americans rally around God, Flag, and Country when they saw the Red Menace and now what they call Islamo Fascism... so to do the Pashtuns answer the threat of an outside invader by rallying in a defensive poster (i.e. defensive jihaad without the need of a caliph) around their religious establishment.

Basically, to me its like you as a fellow physician are working with me... we have a septic patient and the nidus is known... the pathogen is in the lungs. I want to implement Early Goal Directed Therapy ala Manny Rivers and you want to give the poor patient just Tylenol alone. So you forget the antibiotics, you forget sustaining his MAPs... you basically forgot that the guy has a germ that is causing his body to respond in the way that it does.

More than that, what you promote, is bloody interventionalism that just gaurantees an endless war of attrition that ensures yet another generation of Pashtuns has to be the body's B cell response.

"Invariably, when there is an emergence of extreme violence within Pashtun society, their clergy will be deeply involved. The exact opposite
is true when the Pashtuns are at peace: the mullah class is quiet and remains within its mosques and madrassas."

Here is a reference with some historical insight.

http://www.tribalanalysiscenter.com/...%20Mullahs.pdf

By the way, sorry for the tone, Im just sick and tired of the same rhetoric devoid of evidence again and again and again and again and again and again from the nationaleestas. Its all about pulling America into your struggles (even though Afghanistan proper has no connection to your tribe, clan, or zmakaa) and having them bomb the hell out of us to further secular nationalist ends that the people just do not want. With sustaining this bloody cycle and pulling Bob, Tom, Steve, and Tim who were doing just fine in Tennessee into that BS so that innocent Americans can kill innocent Afgahns while the ANP and Afghan Mellat stand on the sidelines watching is horrendous and sickening.

[Baygham]

Actually on the medical mission through Waziristan, through the proper channels and through what even the Americans understand is utilizing a cultural respect, I was able to deal with many many women and that was an american medical student doing an abroad rotation.

Your question is nonsensical. In America, if I catheterized Pamela Anderson and then stood in the Chowk in front of her husbands house announcing I had done that, I think he would be offended and might attack me as well.

I am merely pointing out that Toramana, and perhaps yourself back the US incursions. Have you studied your history? Do you not yet see a pattern emerging? This is not, as the ANP chapters would love the populace to believe, some sort of new inflammatory reaction where the Mullah class popped out of nowhere.

Just as the body has its B memory cells... so too does the Pashtun have his patterns of uprising. Mir Wais Neka -->secured a fatwa for war; Ahmad Shah Baba --> secured a fatwa for war and was a student of Shah Waliullah; Wazir Akbar --> referred to his hit and run campaigns on the British as jihad and his troops as the ghazis. Ahmad Yusufzai the barelvi --> Unified jihad against the Sikhs. Amanullah the Kamalist even called his Anglo Afghan wars a jihaad and rallied the Wazirs to his banner.

So how can you as a physician not understand that for about the past 1000 years or so the Pashtuns, like many Muslim cultures, respond to outside invaders (germs) the same way that our body does (it has a memorized pathway).

To me, its like you mix up cause and effect. You cry out against what you see is extremism and abuse against females etc, yet that to me, is like calling the fever and chills the cause, and the infection the effect.

Think about all the mess of invaders in that area in just the last 300 years (the Iranians against Mir Wais, then again under Nadir Shah, the Mughals, the British, the Russians, and now the Americans).

Just as the Americans rally around God, Flag, and Country when they saw the Red Menace and now what they call Islamo Fascism... so to do the Pashtuns answer the threat of an outside invader by rallying in a defensive poster (i.e. defensive jihaad without the need of a caliph) around their religious establishment.

Basically, to me its like you as a fellow physician are working with me... we have a septic patient and the nidus is known... the pathogen is in the lungs. I want to implement Early Goal Directed Therapy ala Manny Rivers and you want to give the poor patient just Tylenol alone. So you forget the antibiotics, you forget sustaining his MAPs... you basically forgot that the guy has a germ that is causing his body to respond in the way that it does.

More than that, what you promote, is bloody interventionalism that just gaurantees an endless war of attrition that ensures yet another generation of Pashtuns has to be the body's B cell response.

"Invariably, when there is an emergence of extreme violence within Pashtun society, their clergy will be deeply involved. The exact opposite
is true when the Pashtuns are at peace: the mullah class is quiet and remains within its mosques and madrassas."

Here is a reference with some historical insight.

http://www.tribalanalysiscenter.com/...%20Mullahs.pdf

By the way, sorry for the tone, Im just sick and tired of the same rhetoric devoid of evidence again and again and again and again and again and again from the nationaleestas. Its all about pulling America into your struggles (even though Afghanistan proper has no connection to your tribe, clan, or zmakaa) and having them bomb the hell out of us to further secular nationalist ends that the people just do not want. With sustaining this bloody cycle and pulling Bob, Tom, Steve, and Tim who were doing just fine in Tennessee into that BS so that innocent Americans can kill innocent Afgahns while the ANP and Afghan Mellat stand on the sidelines watching is horrendous and sickening.

Things have changed, look at eygpt. Its 5000+ years history they have never had non authoritarian rule. And what is the demand now in the recent uprising.

Muhammad himself was just one person. When he stood against prevailing pagan doctrines of millenia. So what if the pashtoons were savages once, pashtoons have fought for sikhs, hindus, pagans, iranians, mughals, russians, arabs, punjabis, english, and now americans. Even your name sake abdali was once a ghilzai prisoner and would have died in the gallows if not for persian conquest. Our khushal khan himself was a paid vassal of mughals whom latter turned his own son against him.

so now we take money from this and that, nothing has changed except the world.

The pashtoons are a weak, small but significant group of people in todays world, The world is not going to allow them to maintain there loot and plunder ways of past. You cannot raid india or persia now. Now you work like a dog just like the chinese and indians and compete in global arena, one step at a time.

This is a time to change our ways not pour more gasoline on ourselves so we combust faster.

And having lived amongst the religion wheelers and dealers in pakhtunkhwa, I know how courageous they are and who will sell for what. Essentially the majority have no moral basis of existence (including the ANP leadership). Those that cherish religion truly don't mix it with worldly gains and are innocent bystanders and equally exploited. A very small but alive subset, want a change, away from the use of religion fear mongering, anti western, anti indian bull crap. They had not seen an american in swabi or swat, yet they are exploited worse than those living in jalalabad.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I am with you bro, but just let me know one thing before I march in your company. Which religion do you subscribe to.

I do agree this arab nationalism has killed not only persian heritage, it has killed pashtoon heritage as well.

how do you kill Pashtoon heritage when you find Pashtoons retaining almost all of their historical values and traits for extensive periods of time even till this day?

Sounds like orientalist/imperialist divide and rule babble.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Islam has also been used by Arabs to represent Arab nationalism and to keep Arab language strong. Look at how when Arabs invaded Persia they burned our books and they killed our intellectuals. It was Saudi who funded the Taliban

'

Is that why Islaam went up against the Arabian cultural establishment and altered all the Ethnic customs and values that were held by Arabs of that time, including their religion? Why would they do that if they're out to promote Arab supremacy?

Iran is right now funding the Taliban, what's your point?

[ScimitarXEdge]

You Pashtuns just don\'t get it.

We get it, persian nationalists who have an inferiority complex because the empire they adored which was rife with corruption, perversion and immorality was purged are trying hard to play the victim's role. Let's not forget the fact how Persian rulers have historically tried to make Pashtoons bow to Persian society and to exterminate the language and values of Pashtoons.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I am with you bro, but just let me know one thing before I march in your company. Which religion do you subscribe to.

I do agree this arab nationalism has killed not only persian heritage, it has killed pashtoon heritage as well.

What a disgraceful display of spinelessness and disingenuousness ; one hand posturing yourself as a Pashtun Nationalist; then seeking kinship with "Persian Nationalists" who have demonstratively throughout history shown more enmity, attempted tyrannized and sought to destroy Pashtoons than any Arab has ever done in any evidence of history. You'll forsake even your false claim of Pashtoon nationalism just to go against Islaam. This lends credence to exactly what I have been saying; that your Nationalism is really just a pretense for an anti Islamic agenda. And who funds such anti islamic agendas than Capitalist Imperialists?

[Baygham]

What a disgraceful display of spinelessness and disingenuousness ; one hand posturing yourself as a Pashtun Nationalist; then seeking kinship with "Persian Nationalists" who have demonstratively throughout history shown more enmity, attempted tyrannized and sought to destroy Pashtoons than any Arab has ever done in any evidence of history. You'll forsake even your false claim of Pashtoon nationalism just to go against Islaam. This lends credence to exactly what I have been saying; that your Nationalism is really just a pretense for an anti Islamic agenda. And who funds such anti islamic agendas than Capitalist Imperialists?

Pashtoon nationalist is your label, not mine. Persiwans are our brothers and neighbours. We will find a way to live in harmony with one another. We do not have such relations with say the chinese or the arabs or nubians in africa. We wish them well and only are upset if they interfere in our affairs by exporting deadly ideologies. If iran is doing the same to parsiwans and that causes more turmoil than shame on that too. Pakistan has been doing the same for decades.

In the end we will have to live with each other and that requires that we stop dying for outsiders. Since most of the turmoil is religious, stop dying for arabs first, than iran, than others. There are sunni parsiwans too, they wont want iranian hegemony over them.

In any case things in pakhtunkhwa are a touch different. we have a lot more structure and capacity to integrate globally. as things stand this american presence can be pure Gold for us. Now a little change of kaaba and we will be all set.LOL

[graveyardofempires]

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Baygham you are one sick person