Who were the Ormuri?

[Bost Bastan News]

Ormuri people are one of the original people of our country and maybe Pakistan´s. They were once living a large area between Kabul and Peshawar and still can be found in some corners of Peshawar. Today, a group of them called Baraki Barak are living in Logar and Laghman. They identify themselves with Farsiwans. They speak a Dari dialect called Sucha. Also the Farmoolis are related with them and belong to Farsiwans. Other Ormuris are assimilated into Pashtuns when we moved demographical toward their regions. In Laghman there are two regions I know where they still speak their own language.

Pir Roshan never called himself Pashtun. He claimed being descendent from a Turkish king from Turkey whose family moved to Afghanistan when Usman take power in Turkey. Pir Roshan did a great job for Pashtu language. He modefied it. Other non-Pashtuns were shaer darwaza and akhnd darwaza.

[Bost Bastan News]

They are also called Barki or Burki. Depends our Pakistanized the people are.

[khushal]

Ormuri people are one of the original people of our country and maybe Pakistan´s. They were once living a large area between Kabul and Peshawar and still can be found in some corners of Peshawar. Today, a group of them called Baraki Barak are living in Logar and Laghman. They identify themselves with Farsiwans. They speak a Dari dialect called Sucha. Also the Farmoolis are related with them and belong to Farsiwans. Other Ormuris are assimilated into Pashtuns when we moved demographical toward their regions. In Laghman there are two regions I know where they still speak their own language.

Pir Roshan never called himself Pashtun. He claimed being descendent from a Turkish king from Turkey whose family moved to Afghanistan when Usman take power in Turkey. Pir Roshan did a great job for Pashtu language. He modefied it. Other non-Pashtuns were shaer darwaza and akhnd darwaza.

your a complete ghul. They don't live in laghman and they don't identify with farsiwan because they don't live amongst them. They live in Pashtun areas and identify with Pashtuns. Your inferiority complex is overwhelming.

[pashtanajan]

Ormuri people are one of the original people of our country and maybe Pakistan´s. They were once living a large area between Kabul and Peshawar and still can be found in some corners of Peshawar. Today, a group of them called Baraki Barak are living in Logar and Laghman. They identify themselves with Farsiwans. They speak a Dari dialect called Sucha. Also the Farmoolis are related with them and belong to Farsiwans. Other Ormuris are assimilated into Pashtuns when we moved demographical toward their regions. In Laghman there are two regions I know where they still speak their own language.

Pir Roshan never called himself Pashtun. He claimed being descendent from a Turkish king from Turkey whose family moved to Afghanistan when Usman take power in Turkey. Pir Roshan did a great job for Pashtu language. He modefied it. Other non-Pashtuns were shaer darwaza and akhnd darwaza.

I've searched throughout the internet for the so-called dialect of Sucha and I cannot find any information on it.

[Tjanaparh]

Are there any registrations of Ormuri ? Poetry ???

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Ormuri/Barki are not pashtun but still they are proud of being Ormuri.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

If they are pashtunized then why are they included in the sarban tribal group? And how do they come from logar, which is a majority pashtun area and not be pashtun?

Daman's speak pashto but they aren't seen as pashtuns by Afghans. Anyways, they don't have written history like Pashtuns so we can't make broad assumptions since there is hardly anything written about them.

because WIkipedia isn't always based on well researched information but is trolled by random Pashtuns who want to make their narratives appear factual.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Ormori though are spread throughout KPK.But they basically are from kanigoram in South waziristan.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

MOst of you , especially this Bostan fellow, have no idea what they're talking about. You're just spewing things you found through the internet without any real analysis and examination.

Khushal's statement is the most accurate, they ARE Pashtunized, the claim that they're Sarban Pashtuns seems to be recently invented claim by Pashtun nationalists. They're neither Farsiwan nor Pashtun, but in the old days some people claimed them as "Farsiwan" because they didn't traditionally speak Pashto.

Ormuris are NOT Turk, the story relating the to Turks is some narrative that Sultan Mahmud Ghaznawi imported them from Yemen during his rule and Ghaznawids were Saljuk Turks. This is probably false though since Burki is Indo-Iranian and not Semitic and there are no native Indo-Iranian language speakers in Yemen.

What's interesting about the Ormuris is that their "Pashtunization" is still in transition, meaning that while they have by in large adopted Pashtun culture and to some degree are being regarded as Pashtuns, they're still known as a distinct ethnic identity.


What does this imply? That there are definite "holes" n the Homogeneous Hypothesis of Pashtun origins i.e. the claim that Pashtuns have all come from a singular source and gives credence to the Heterogeneous origins of Pashtuns, the hypothesis that Pashtuns are really the result of an AMALGAMATION of different ethnic groups who were absorbed into the Tribal spectrum OVER different periods of time.

I believe the Karlanis and Baitanis are not originally Pashtuns, but Sarbans are. But Ormuris are not Sarbans, this was forged.

[pashtanajan]

MOst of you , especially this Bostan fellow, have no idea what they're talking about. You're just spewing things you found through the internet without any real analysis and examination.

Khushal's statement is the most accurate, they ARE Pashtunized, the claim that they're Sarban Pashtuns seems to be recently invented claim by Pashtun nationalists. They're neither Farsiwan nor Pashtun, but in the old days some people claimed them as "Farsiwan" because they didn't traditionally speak Pashto.

Ormuris are NOT Turk, the story relating the to Turks is some narrative that Sultan Mahmud Ghaznawi imported them from Yemen during his rule and Ghaznawids were Saljuk Turks. This is probably false though since Burki is Indo-Iranian and not Semitic and there are no native Indo-Iranian language speakers in Yemen.

What's interesting about the Ormuris is that their "Pashtunization" is still in transition, meaning that while they have by in large adopted Pashtun culture and to some degree are being regarded as Pashtuns, they're still known as a distinct ethnic identity.


What does this imply? That there are definite "holes" n the Homogeneous Hypothesis of Pashtun origins i.e. the claim that Pashtuns have all come from a singular source and gives credence to the Heterogeneous origins of Pashtuns, the hypothesis that Pashtuns are really the result of an AMALGAMATION of different ethnic groups who were absorbed into the Tribal spectrum OVER different periods of time.

I believe the Karlanis and Baitanis are not originally Pashtuns, but Sarbans are. But Ormuris are not Sarbans, this was forged.

With what information I've seen, I agree that many groups were assimilated into the greater Pashtun population over time. All ethnic groups are mixed to some degree, and the claim that all Pashtuns are direct descendants of Afghana is ridiculous. I think our extreme variation in phenotypes (from nordic-looking to north indid looking) may hint at our heterogeneous origin.

So what makes you think Karlanis may not have originally been Pashtuns?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

So what makes you think Karlanis may not have originally been Pashtuns?

Just their locale and they're usually not mentioned in the maintream Pashtun genealogies.

however Baitanis are but Baitani tribes have names which have Turkic origins like Hotak for example or Andar

Ghaljis are Baitani. I guess Ghaljis like myself are a mixture of Native Afghans and Turkic clans who came later.

[Kushan Prince]

I don't believe Pashtuns are heterogeneous since 77% of them belong to the R1a halpogroup. You people can belittle pashtuns all you want but it just won't work. But these are all just opinions so i don't believe any of them.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

You're confusing ethnicity with Genetic Heritage. Those are two different vectors which are often linearly independent (i.e. not dependent on each other).There are groups in Central Asia who currently speak a Turkic language and are ethnically Turkic who have a predominance of R1a

Lots of ethnic groups have a predominance of R1a Haplogroups that are not even Pashtun, ethnicity and Genetic heritage are not the same thing. Your Haplogroup has very little to do with your ethnicity.

and also 77% ....that means 23% do NOT have that Haplogroup, That's the EXACT opposite of Homogeneous even on the genetic scale.

I think the issue is many people like yourself don't actually Understand what any of this stuff represents and what it signifies. Hence you think an R1a Haplogroup means having the same ETHNIC origin.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml

Jump down to Turkic Speakers and R1a.

This pretty much shoots holes in the hypothesis that R1a is an indication of ethnic homogeneity

[pashtanajan]

R1a is found in high amounts amongst the Tajiks too and other surrounding populations such as the Nuristanis and the Baloch. Even Tajiks are relatively admixed as are Iranians. As Pashtuns migrated eastwards, they absorbed other groups indegineous to those areas. I believe that genetic tests have shown that Pashtuns west of the Durrand line are more West Asian than those of East of it.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I don't get what you mean by belittling Pashtuns, ...Pashtuns are mixed, People are mixed ....that's an agreed upon Consensus in science. Not sure what being mixed has to do with belittling.

If you mean I'm calling Pashtun-centrists on their bull****, you bet I am. It's time we exposes the lies we're taught and embrace reality. However there's no fault in being mixed, 77% R1a implies 23% NON-R1a ....that's a MIXTURE.