Who were the Ormuri?

[pashtanajan]

Any information on the Ormuri are appreciated. Pir Roshan spoke Ormuri and yet he identified himself as Pashtun, so I find that quite peculiar. Were the Ormuri ethnically close and tied to Pashtuns?

Thank you.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

All the ormuri i have seen either speak wazirwola or Slightly similar to the Mehsud dialects.

Those living in the Bannu speak bannu people language such as Nasir shah lecturer in Bannu University

I know one word in Barki language

"Spaku nak" Which means "De spy zamana" :D

[Kushan Prince]

Ormuri's are Pashtun from laghman.

[Admin Khan]

[MENTION=2852]Midnight_Sun[/MENTION] seems like he would know.

[khushal]

ormari are in the nuristani region, they are not Pashtun although many speak Pashto.

[Kushan Prince]

Ormuri's were not from nuristan thats just absurd. They're original homeland was in laghman from where they migrated eastwards towards Waziristan where most of them are found today.

I'm sure Pir rokhan (the man in my avatar) would be pretty pissed about people calling him a "nuristani" today.

[khushal]

^^then why do they speak a different language? they reside in places like logar and south Waziristan and they can even be found in panjab. where did you get laghman from?

[Kushan Prince]

^^then why do they speak a different language? they reside in places like logar and south Waziristan and they can even be found in panjab. where did you get laghman from?

Yes i actually meant logar. I confused the two because both of them have a L in it. I read somewhere where this ormuri historian wrote that they were pashtuns from logar who emigrated towards pakhtunkwa who encountered a people with a different language causing them to adopt their language.

So where the hell did you get nuristan from?

[pashtanajan]

Ah, found this after looking a bit on the internet:

Ormur is part of the Pashtun tribal system and belongs to the sub-group of the Sarbans. The 16th-century Pashtun warrior-poet Pir Roshan belonged to the Ormur tribe.

I'm guessing most of them regard themselves as Pashtuns since their language is now spoken by very few of them.

I'd still like some more info. I think they seem to be the indigenous people to the areas they live, which are now Pashtun dominant.

Ormuris are not from Nuristan. I know this because I have Nuristani relatives, and Nuristan is only occupied by Nuristanis.

[khushal]

Yes i actually meant logar. I confused the two because both of them have a L in it. I read somewhere where this ormuri historian wrote that they were pashtuns from logar who emigrated towards pakhtunkwa who encountered a people with a different language causing them to adopt their language.

So where the hell did you get nuristan from?

They were not originally Pashtun, they have been pashtunized. I know the ones in logar speak both Pashto and farsi fluently. When they speak Pashto, one can not tell they are not Pashtun and when they speak farsi, one can not tell they are not farsiwan.
There are many theories of their origins.
http://www.khyber.org/publications/016-020/ormuri.shtml

[Kushan Prince]

They are not Pashtun, they have been pashtunized.
There are many theories of their origins.
http://www.khyber.org/publications/016-020/ormuri.shtml

If they are pashtunized then why are they included in the sarban tribal group? And how do they come from logar, which is a majority pashtun area and not be pashtun?

Daman's speak pashto but they aren't seen as pashtuns by Afghans. Anyways, they don't have written history like Pashtuns so we can't make broad assumptions since there is hardly anything written about them.

[gadoonwal]

Ormuris are pashtuns.
Somewhere i read that ,,ormuri,,is the old pashtu language.
It is not clear yet.In waziristan they also speak pashtu like mehsuds and waziris .They are proud pashtun like waziris and mehsuds.
They are part of sarban.
They are not noristanis.

[khushal]

If they are pashtunized then why are they included in the sarban tribal group? And how do they come from logar, which is a majority pashtun area and not be pashtun?

Daman's speak pashto but they aren't seen as pashtuns by Afghans. Anyways, they don't have written history like Pashtuns so we can't make broad assumptions since there is hardly anything written about them.

Daman have a little disadvantage than the Ormuris in that the former don't own land and are more spread out. They were probably part of the sarban confederacy at one point maybe being allies with them and had their protection. Those confederacies really don't have any significance anymore.

didn't you read the source, the answers to your questions lies in the source.

Another interesting point is that Ormuri, although a West Iranian language, contains manifest evidence of contact with the Dardic languages whose present habitat is the hill country south of the Hindu Kush. At the present day these languages are being gradually superseded by Pashto, and are dying out in the face of their more powerful neighbour. Those of the Swat and Indus Kohistans are disappearing before our eyes. There is reason to believe that this has been going on for several centuries. In historic times they were once spoken as far south as the Tirah valley, where now the only language heard is Pashto, and the fact that Ormuri shows traces of them leads to the supposition that there were once speakers of a Dardic languages still further south in Waziristan and, perhaps, the Logar country before they were occupied by the Afghans."

[Tjanaparh]

I do not know much on the topic and have no idea on the credibility of the views of the author I am posting, but as there are collected many data on the Ormuri language, it may be usefull for You to compare it with various Pashto dialects

[pashtanajan]

I do not know much on the topic and have no idea on the credibility of the views of the author I am posting, but as there are collected many data on the Ormuri language, it may be usefull for You to compare it with various Pashto dialects

This looks quite useful! Thank you.