Any Nation That EVER Tried To Conquer Afghanistan NEVER Did

[Michin Khel]

I said I agree with your opinion.

Because at that point -- it wasn't your opinion. You were attempting to act like a spokesperson for the Mughul empire, and you made an outrageous claim(which I already highlighted) which obviously required evidence. I politely asked for evidence, that's all. You can't simply associate something with an empire to solidify your claim.

I have no right(without evidence) to say "Mughul Dynasty considered Chinese to be inferior and backwards" . That is no long an opinion, it's a CLAIM. I could've, however, said "In my opinion, xyz abc".

I have already said those were my reviews and analysis. I did'nt act like spokesperson of mughals. Admin khan when you say forexample that majority of pashtuns of afghanistan want KPK back, then can you prove it with evidences?..this would be just your analysis

[Admin Khan]

I have already said those were my reviews and analysis. I did'nt act like spokesperson of mughals. Admin khan when you say forexample that majority of pashtuns of afghanistan want KPK back, then can you prove it with evidences?..this would be just your analysis

Luffy Khan, now you are saying this. In that post of yours, you did not say that. That's all, and that's why I questioned it. Look back at what you said -- I've highlighted it before. All you had to tell me was "That's my opinion" rather than telling me it's a fact, or it's 'logic'.

[Michin Khel]

Admin khan you remind me of my kiliwal friend to which once i told him that marwats originally have came from katawaz, afghanistan. He asked me to back up my claim with a source, as we were in college canteen so i said to him that when we reach hostel i would show him the source from internet. When i showed him article about marwats from khyber.org, he said internet is not reliable, Show me this fact from a book. I issued bannu gazettear from library and showed him history of marwats. He said as writer is british, so he is not reliable, show me a source from a marwat author. During summer vacations i issued "marwato tareekh" from library of governament degree college lakki whose author was marwat professor...when i showed him the book, he said how can this person know for so sure that marwats have came from afghanistan, what were sources of this author. I said he must have listened this story from his father as it is passed down generation. He said what if one of our ancestor has made up this story. At that i gave up.

[Admin Khan]

Admin khan you remind me of my kiliwal friend to which once i told him that marwats originally have came from katawaz, afghanistan. He asked me to back up my claim with a source, as we were in college canteen so i said to him that when we reach hostel i would show him the source from internet. When i showed him article about marwats from khyber.org, he said internet is not reliable, Show me this fact from a book. I issued bannu gazettear from library and showed him history of marwats. He said as writer is british, so he is not reliable, show me a source from a marwat author. During summer vacations i issued "marwato tareekh" from library of governament degree college lakki whose author was marwat professor...when i showed him the book, he said how can this person know for so sure that marwats have came from afghanistan, what were sources of this author. I said he must have listened this story from his father as it is passed down generation. He said what if one of our ancestor has made up this story. At that i gave up.

He overdid it. He seems like a good thinker, but clearly he is exaggerating.

Sha wraz darsa ghwarama. Time for me to get some rest.

[randolph85]

we are conquered right now lol the rest is just romantacism.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

The Afghan Yousufzai sardars did, in fact, submit to Mughal authority (they approached Babar with grass in their mouths).. Ever since then, the entire Yousafzai tribe stayed local to the Mughals for hundreds of years, providing them with marriages, soldiers, officers...

Secondly, Khushal Khan's freedom struggle was rather unpopular with the Afghan tribes of the time. Most Afghan tribes were happy being under Mughal control as long as the emperor in Delhi gave them minor positions in return for their loyalty. Others believed that it simply wrong to revolt against a Muslim king so I'm surprised that even the pan-Islamists here are claiming that Muslim Afghans killed thousands of Muslim Arabs and Turks. In any case, that's why Khushal Khan Baba referred to Afridis, Khattaks, Momands and others as dogs or creatures even worse than that. He couldn't understand how Afghans could willingly submit to foreign Mughal rule and even fight and die against him in order to save the throne of their occupiers!

The Arab caliphates, too, managed to occupy and transform Afghanistan. This is a historical fact. The language of the Afghans has thousands of Arabic words now, as a result. Many Pashto words have been lost forever.

Mahmud of Ghazni also occupied and transformed Afghanistan. When his empire fell, it wasn't due to any local struggle for autonomy but because another Turkish dynasty had taken over.

Empires rise and fall. They expand, contract and they die. However, a lot of misunderstanding in this thread is coming from the fact that the distinct difference between the age of empires and the post-1648 Westphalian nation-state system is not being understood here. Yes, after the concept of nation-states or sovereign states came to this region and Afghanistan was founded as a modern state in 1747 by Ahmed Shah Baba, it was never successfully occupied by anyone. However, during the age of empires, many Afghan tribes submitted to foreign rule. In fact, most ethnic Afghans, to this day, submit to foreign rule. According to the philosophy of Khushal Khan and Ahmed Shah, FATA and KP are not free.

Luffy is partially correct when he says that since Afghanistan lacks natural resources, it was never an attractive 'colony' for any European power. It was also the fierce nature of the Afghan people that kept the Russians and the British at bay. Moreover, as a transit point between Central Asia and India and between Persia and India, Afghanistan's geo-political positioning on the map couldn't have been more important. In fact, it was a part of MacKinder's pivot area, which he said was essential to control if any power wishes to control the world. So it wasn't just rocks and men aplenty, as Dost Mohammad thought.

[khushal]

^^^^
why would khushal khan khattak refer to khattaks as dogs. that would be insulting himself.

Ofcourse certain tribes would be willing to cooperate with the invaders and those tribes rivals would be willing to rebel against the invaders. that is just natural. but every invader from alexander have had struggles controlling afghanistan. that is well documented. dont confuse invasion and defeat in battle with controlling or conquering.

[Ghundal]

It's news to my ear that the Arab caliphate was able to rule Afghanistan

Can someone show me sources?

[Michin Khel]

^^^^
why would khushal khan khattak refer to khattaks as dogs. that would be insulting himself.

Ofcourse certain tribes would be willing to cooperate with the invaders and those tribes rivals would be willing to rebel against the invaders. that is just natural. but every invader from alexander have had struggles controlling afghanistan. that is well documented. dont confuse invasion and defeat in battle with controlling or conquering.

It is a famous quote of khushal khan khattak "dwa inch de kam waiy kho ka khattak na wu paida"

[khushal]

You are trying to drag me to present day times , i spoke in context of old times, when from east india company or mughals point of view afghanistan was a useless area as revenue from this area was negligible.
From local's prospective afghanistan is lovely and its sand, rocks are gems, but for outsiders this was always useless land. I love desert of my lakki marwat but for a punjabi it is a useless land.

the east indian company and the russians made an agreement not to invade to keep it a buffer between two rivals much like how germany and russia kept poland as a buffer. the reason that the brits invaded was because they thought the russians were going to invadeand they wanted to beat them to the punch much like how hitler invaded poland becasue he feared the russians were going to invade it and wanted to beat them to the punch.
the brits became very nervous when the afghan beat the much better british armed persians. the brits thought that the russains were already in afghanistan because they were shocked how the better armed persian had lost to the lightly armed afghans.

It had nothing to do with barren land. stop spitting out the panjabi propaganda

[khushal]

It is a famous quote of khushal khan khattak "dwa inch de kam waiy kho ka khattak na wu paida"

never heard of it. I did know he referred to some of the other tribes as traitors but I did not know about his own. Khushal khan was a general in the moghul army and was loyal to shaw jahan but rebelled against arangzeb because khushal viewed arangzeb as a tyrant. what LZ is saying does not make sense.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

^^^^
why would khushal khan khattak refer to khattaks as dogs. that would be insulting himself.

Ofcourse certain tribes would be willing to cooperate with the invaders and those tribes rivals would be willing to rebel against the invaders. that is just natural. but every invader from alexander have had struggles controlling afghanistan. that is well documented. dont confuse invasion and defeat in battle with controlling or conquering.

Hmm you're right, he spared his own tribe in his poem. However, there are two glaring truths here:

- Khushal Khan's own tribe never fully supported his revolt. He spent many years with the Adam Khel Afridis and others tribes to continue his struggle.

- Khushal Khan was ultimately betrayed by his own Khattaks.


Here's the poem in question:

Of the Pathans that are famed in the land of Roh,
Now-a-days are the Mohmunds, the Bangash, and the Warrakzais, and the Afridis.
The dogs of the Muhmunds are better than the Bangash,
Though the Mohmunds themselves are a thousand times worse than the dogs.
The Warrakzais are the scavengers of the Afridis,
Though the Afridis, one and all, are but scanvengers themselves.
This is the truth of the best of the dwellers in the land of Pathans,
Of those worse than these who would say that they were men?
No good qualities are there in the Pathans than are now living:
All that were of any worth are imprisoned in the grave.
This indeed is apparent to all who know them.
He of whom the Moghuls say, "He is loyal to us",
God forbid the shame of such should be concealed!
Let the Pathans drive all thought of honour from their hearts:
For these are ensnared by the baits the Moghuls have put for them.


Khushal, modern day Afghanistan and Pashtunkhwa were occupied by the Ghaznavids with the consent of the local population. Mahmud of Ghazni pitted the converted Pashtun tribes against the still Buddhist and Hindu tribes. Then he recruited them and took them with him to his raids in India.

[Michin Khel]

the east indian company and the russians made an agreement not to invade to keep it a buffer between two rivals much like how germany and russia kept poland as a buffer. the reason that the brits invaded was because they thought the russians were going to invadeand they wanted to beat them to the punch much like how hitler invaded poland becasue he feared the russians were going to invade it and wanted to beat them to the punch.
the brits became very nervous when the afghan beat the much better british armed persians. the brits thought that the russains were already in afghanistan because they were shocked how the better armed persian had lost to the lightly armed afghans.

It had nothing to do with barren land. stop spitting out the panjabi propaganda

Again you are consolidating my point indirectly, Russia and Britian were rival empires, they kept Afghanistan as buffer state to avoid direct conflict. Neither of them were interested in barren lands of afghanistan, they were not fighting over it, they kept it just as a buffer state.

[Ghundal]

Pashtuns were never Bhuddist or Hindu

They have always been monotheistic even before Islam

[Michin Khel]

Pashtuns were never Bhuddist or Hindu

They have always been monotheistic even before Islam

what are budha statues and temples are doing in pakhtunkhwa and afghanistan?