Pashtuns are Yeptalites, Kushans, Scythians?

[Aryana]

Aha, of course that retard pseudo-historian Afghanfootball liked your post teeming with misinformation. Tajiks don't need Pashtuns to protect them. If you'd actually read some history books you'd realize that Tajiks fought in all three Anglo-Afghan wars. Mir Masjidi Khan Kohistani and Mir Bacha Khan Kohdamani are prominent Tajiks who resisted the British. The most effective and organized Mujahideen factions against the Soviets were Tajik and this is universally recognized!


And the Basmachi movement which resisted the Soviets in Central Asia lasted longest in Tajikistan. If the English and Russians weren't insistent on maintaining Afghanistan as a buffer state then Pashtuns would have met the same fate as Central Asians, retard. It has nothing to do with any inherent bravery unique to Pashtuns. Pakistani Pashtuns are too cowardly to escape the yoke of Punjabi rule and even fought for the British army, rofl.

Tajiks were East Iranic peoples like Bactrians, Soghdians, etc. before the Islamic invasions and had advanced civilizations on the crossroads of Central Asia. You are wrong about the history of Parsi-e-Dari as well. Dari was in use in Eastern Iranic lands even before the Islamic invasions and propagating Dari became the most optimal way of maintaining our Iranic culture and civilization in the face of Arab hegemony. The Samanids who were a Tajik dynasty and most credited with reviving Persian culture were native to Central Asia and that is why Farsi has East Iranic loanwords. All the Persian-speaking luminaries of Eastern Iranic lands like Avicenna were native to regions like Balkh and Bukhara and not western Iran, so yes it is appropriate to refer to them as Tajik.

Those "chinky" looking Tajiks from Tajikistan actually cluster west of most Pashtuns. They are genetically closer to Iranians, Chechens, Turks, etc. than you are.

You are desperately trying to give credit to mongoloid Tajiks in Afghanistan's and Iran's histories. The main forces fighting both the Soviets and the British were Pashtuns, and you're denying that basic fact.

On your point about Tajik history, you're getting confused or are you retarded? Farsi was only spoken in Aryana by the real Persians. Tajiks only began speaking it after the Islamic invasions.

[Win Butler]

You are desperately trying to give credit to mongoloid Tajiks in Afghanistan's and Iran's histories. The main forces fighting both the Soviets and the British were Pashtuns, and you're denying that basic fact.

On your point about Tajik history, you're getting confused or are you retarded? Farsi was only spoken in Aryana by the real Persians. Tajiks only began speaking it after the Islamic invasions.

You know nothing about history or genetics. Kill yourself.

[Aryana]

You know nothing about history or genetics. Kill yourself.

Wouldn't kill myself because a dancing bacha chinky-eyed Mongoloid told me to.

[Afghanfootball]

Iranis trying to steal Afghan history.

"The foremost samples that have survived from the Persian literature in the Islamic period belong to the 3rd and 4th Centuries AH/9th and 10th Centuries AD. The only information that we have as regards the poets of the early Islamic centuries is a list of their names that was compiled by “Ofi” and later on by some other biographers, and particularly Ohadi Balyāni, in his book the “Arafāt al-Āsheqin” and by Āzar Begdeli in his book, the “Ātashqadah Fahārasi”. Besides, Hedāyat has also included the summaries of these two books in his own book, the “Majma’ al-Fas’hā”.p As per the narrations of the author of the book, the “Tārikh-e Sistān”, Mohammad bin Vasif Sagzi was the first Iranian poet to have praised “Ya’qub Layth Saffār” in a Persian poem. Thereafter, other poets like Bassām Kūrd and Mohammad bin Mokhlad Sagzi also followed suit and composed a Persian eulogy on Ya’qub Layth. Similarly, according to Ofi, Hanzalah Bādghaysi was the first poet of the Tāherid period while Firuz Mashreghi and Abu Salik Gorgāni were the poets of period of Amro Layth.p Only a few stray verses from the poems of this period have survived in some biography books today. These poems have no musical richness and their words are disharmonious while their messages are plain and unornamented. Not many poems from this period are available to us today. Even the poems that have been compiled by Lālezār do not exceed fifty verses in number while according to Shafi’i Kadkani, even the exact periods during which these poets lived are not known for certain. Moreover, there is doubt as to whether these poems had even been composed by them. According to Zarrinkub, the first poem to which we have access today from the Islamic period is the “Sorud-e Ahl-e Bokhārā” which belonged to the year 56 AH after which comes the song composed by Yazid bin Mafragh in the year 59 AH followed by another poem called the “Harrārah-ye Kudakāne Balkh” that belongs to the year 108 AH. From the illustrative point of view, the most important form of poetry used by some poets like Firuz Mashreghi was sharply and concretely figurative in nature. With the exception of Firuz Mashreghi and Hanzalah Bādghaysi, the works of the other poets of this period, and especially those of Mohammad bin Vasif Sagzi, are bereft of any illustrative value."

Sagzi from Seistan during Saffari period. It cant be a coincidence that they have the last name Sagzi and live around the areas that Sakzai live to this day. Shameful how much they steal our history.

"in 1907, out of an estimated 20,000 nomadic Pashtun families who spent the winter in northern Afghanistan, 9,900, i.e., half of them, were reported to be Esḥāqzī, of whom 7,000 lived in the present–day province of Jawzjān; the tribe, moreover, included some 22,200 nomadic families in southwest Afghanistan, mostly in what was then known as the Pošt-e Rūd district, i.e., the right bank of the Helmand river."

[Dilawerkhan]

As expected you're quite ignorant or just teenager. Pakistani Iranics have been Pakistanis for 70 years but Indians for over 200 years! Prove me wrong if you can

Pakistani pathans on HGDP have up to 36% ASI while Afghan pashtuns have half of that 16%. Yes there are some pathans who are not mixed yet but many who are mixed as one can see in HGDP.

Tajiks and Iranians are closer to each other. Iranians are also closer to Caucasus people. While "Pathans" are closer to their hindu neighbours.



Point is we both knows merger will not happen anytime soon, not even in next 50 years. Imagine what pathans will become in 50 years compared to now? Is there any freedom pathan movement in Pakistan like Baloch struggle?

PCAs, allele frequency based admixture calculators (gedmatch), and especially services that base on haplotype segment matching (23andMe) are NOT informative to determining Pashtun, Tajik, Uzbek, Balochi, etc deep ancestry. These methods only convey information on clustering of groups due to RECENT GENETIC DRIFT, or in simpler language, due to admixture events between groups within say the past 500 years only.

To have a better idea on the origins of Pashtuns, Tajiks, etc, one needs to look to DNA analysis using more formal methods, which convey information, not just on recent genetic drift, but rather on total drift history going back 1000s of years, or in other words, methods that convey information about mutations accumulated since the out-of-Africa event. I am talking about methods used in the scientific papers on genetics and population histories, such as Dstats, f3s, qpAdm, etc.

My analysis has shown that most S & W Asian groups have varying levels of Caucausus Hunter Gatherer, Eurasian Steppe, ASI, E Eurasian, and SW Asian. In other words, everyone is mixed, the only difference being the levels of the various components.

On a more recent level ( with the past 500 years), there appears to be a rise in a an admixture component attributable to Punjabis, and other similar groups in Pakistani Pashtuns, but that is expected due to the 2 being neighbors.

Also, don't assume that just because 2 groups cluster together today on a PCA, or have similar admixture calculator, or 23andMe results, that they had the same origins (drift history). Case in point Makranis and Brahuis (or Balochis). They may cluster together on a PCA, but my analysis shows different drift histories for the 2. Using formal statistical methods of genome analysis which convey information on total drift paths (deeper in time), many Baloch DNA samples, for example, appeared to be most similar to Kurds, whereas Makrani samples showed a considerable African input hundreds of years ago.

I have personally performed analysis using these methods on S and W Asian DNA samples, and can share some results, if there is interest, and when I have a little time.

[Dilawerkhan]

A post mentioned an old book that made references to Pashtun being an Indian tribe. Pashtuns and Baloch were considered Indian, because some of their lands were part of India prior to 1947.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

As expected you're quite ignorant or just teenager. Pakistani Iranics have been Pakistanis for 70 years but Indians for over 200 years! Prove me wrong if you can

Pakistani pathans on HGDP have up to 36% ASI while Afghan pashtuns have half of that 16%. Yes there are some pathans who are not mixed yet but many who are mixed as one can see in HGDP.

Tajiks and Iranians are closer to each other. Iranians are also closer to Caucasus people. While "Pathans" are closer to their hindu neighbours.



Point is we both knows merger will not happen anytime soon, not even in next 50 years. Imagine what pathans will become in 50 years compared to now? Is there any freedom pathan movement in Pakistan like Baloch struggle?

Parhans are considered basically those pashtuns settled outside pashtun majority region in pakistan like punjab or sindh.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Something very interesting i got.Also thanks to the source for the efforts he must have done

I thought it would be interesting to show Fsts of the HGDP Pashtuns to different regions and populations, in order of distance. The regions are broadly based on the Metspalu et al Fst chart.

HGDP Pashtuns:
1. Pakistan=0.004, Tajikistan=0.004
2. Iran=0.007
3. North Caucasus=0.008
4. Caucasus=0.011, North India+Gujarat=0.011
5. Southwest Caucasus=0.012
6. Abhkazians=0.013
7. Central Asia=0.015
8. Europe=0.017
9. Near East=0.020
10. Sardinia=0.031
11. North Africa (Mozabites)=0.038
12. South India=0.044
13. East Asia=0.071
14. African Farmers=0.136
15. Melanesia=0.143
16. African Hunter Gatherers=0.178

I modified some categories, because some populations are much closer or distant than others. Also, the "East Asia" category conflates "TB spkr of India", "Southeast Asia", and "East Asia". To be specific, the Northeast Asian populations are closest to the HGDP Pashtuns, as are the Cambodians, who have some West Eurasian ancestry (already mentioned this). Most East Eurasians without any West Eurasian admixture were in the 0.080's range (as can be observed above). I excluded the Munda and Central Indian populations because I made a huge mistake in computation (lol), so it was best I exclude them. All the numbers are correct and double checked. What I find interesting is that with exception to the Gujaratis and North Indians, the HGDP Pashtuns are much closer to all West Eurasians than South Indians (and besides Gujaratis, Brahmins, and Kshatriyas, most North Indians are somewhat distant). Also, the Iranians are closer than North Indians. As expected, the closest populations are average Pakistanis, and Tajiks.

Pathan/Pashtun Admixture Results | Harappa Ancestry Project

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

same source
Here are the HGDP Pashtun Fst numbers from Metspalu et al (you can find them in the Supplementary Data). Very hard to read in the actual supplements, so I thought it would be nice if I post this (for anyone who might have been curious, but just could not bear dealing with that monstrosity of a visualization). All caveats that apply to the interpretation and utilization of Fst should be kept in mind (also, please do point out any errors).

1. HGDP Pashtun=0.000
2. Sindhi=0.002, UP Brahmins=0.002
3. Balochi=0.003, UP Kshatriyas=0.003
4. Tajiks=0.004
5. Makrani=0.005
6. Brahui=0.006, Burusho=0.006, UP Muslims=0.006
7. Iranians=0.007, Gujaratis=0.007
8. Nogais=0.008, Kumyks=0.008
9. UP Caste=0.009
10. Lezgins=0.010, Balkars=0.010
11. North Ossetians=0.011, Uzbeks=0.011
12. Armenians=0.012, Chechens=0.012, Turkmen=0.012, UP Kols=0.012
13. Abhkasians=0.013, UP Kanjars=0.013, MAD CHA Gonds=0.013, AP Velama=0.013
14. Georgians=0.014, UP Dharkars=0.014
15. UP Chamar=0.015, TN Kurm+tribe=0.015
16. Tuscans=0.016, Russians=0.016
17. Uygurs=0.017
18. French=0.018, Hazara=0.018, Palestinians=0.018, TN Piramalai Kallars=0.018
19. North Italians=0.019
20. Druze=0.020, KAR Halakipikki=0.020
21. Ctr India mix+Nihali=0.021
22. AP Chenchu=0.022, KER Sakilli=0.022
23. Bedouins=0.023
24. KAR North Kannadigas=0.024
25. UP Dushadh=0.026
26. Sardinians=0.031
27. BIH JHA Munda=0.032
28. KER tribes mix=0.034
29. Mozabites=0.038, ORI CHA Munda=0.038
30. Burmese=0.053
31. TN Pulliyars=0.059
32. MEG Garos=0.060
33. Mongols=0.064, Tu=0.064, Xibo=0.064
34. Cambodian=0.065
35. Daur=0.071
36. Oroqen=0.073
37. Hezhen=0.074
38. Yizu=0.075
39. Naxi=0.076
40. Tujia=0.078
41. NAG Nagas=0.079
42. Dai=0.080
43. Miaozu=0.081
44. Han=0.082
45. Japanese=0.083
46. She=0.085
47. Lahu=0.086
48. Bantu NE =0.123
49. NAN Melanesians=0.130
50. Bantu SW=0.134
51. Mandenka=0.136
52. Yoruba=0.138
53. Papuans=0.156
54. Biaka Pygmies=0.164
55. San=0.184
56. Mbuti Pygmies=0.185

[Dilawerkhan]

The numbers posted above are reasonable, but are based calculations based on recent admixture events by various groups and their neighbors , recently over the past say 500 years. They are not necessarily informative as to what populations contributed to the modern Pashtun, Tajik, etc, and at what percentage.

If this very test were conducted on the ancestors of those samples 1000 or 2000 years ago the results could be very different

[Afghanfootball]

A post mentioned an old book that made references to Pashtun being an Indian tribe. Pashtuns and Baloch were considered Indian, because some of their lands were part of India prior to 1947.

Please show the source and the quote. I strongly doubt any Pashtun was called an Indian tribe.

[Dilawerkhan]

Please show the source and the quote. I strongly doubt any Pashtun was called an Indian tribe.

Pretty simple. Western people call someone from India Indian, and since Pakistan did not exist prior to 1947, someone from Quetta or Peshawar would be called an Indian by Europeans at that time.

[Aryana]

Pretty simple. Western people call someone from India Indian, and since Pakistan did not exist prior to 1947, someone from Quetta or Peshawar would be called an Indian by Europeans at that time.

Then why were the Pashtuns (from Quetta, Peshawar etc, even Balochistan and Sindhis) called "Afghans" by foreigners when they arrived in Australia as cameleers?

[Dilawerkhan]

Then why were the Pashtuns (from Quetta, Peshawar etc, even Balochistan and Sindhis) called "Afghans" by foreigners when they arrived in Australia as cameleers?

Kho derre khalk na waayi che hagha Punjabi ya Gujrati ya Sindhi ya Balochi dai. Doyi d haghoi pa khpalo hewaaduno d noom sara waayi. Haghoi waayi che hagha hindustani ya pakistani dai.

[Sarbani]

PCAs, allele frequency based admixture calculators (gedmatch), and especially services that base on haplotype segment matching (23andMe) are NOT informative to determining Pashtun, Tajik, Uzbek, Balochi, etc deep ancestry. These methods only convey information on clustering of groups due to RECENT GENETIC DRIFT, or in simpler language, due to admixture events between groups within say the past 500 years only.

To have a better idea on the origins of Pashtuns, Tajiks, etc, one needs to look to DNA analysis using more formal methods, which convey information, not just on recent genetic drift, but rather on total drift history going back 1000s of years, or in other words, methods that convey information about mutations accumulated since the out-of-Africa event. I am talking about methods used in the scientific papers on genetics and population histories, such as Dstats, f3s, qpAdm, etc.

My analysis has shown that most S & W Asian groups have varying levels of Caucausus Hunter Gatherer, Eurasian Steppe, ASI, E Eurasian, and SW Asian. In other words, everyone is mixed, the only difference being the levels of the various components.

On a more recent level ( with the past 500 years), there appears to be a rise in a an admixture component attributable to Punjabis, and other similar groups in Pakistani Pashtuns, but that is expected due to the 2 being neighbors.

Also, don't assume that just because 2 groups cluster together today on a PCA, or have similar admixture calculator, or 23andMe results, that they had the same origins (drift history). Case in point Makranis and Brahuis (or Balochis). They may cluster together on a PCA, but my analysis shows different drift histories for the 2. Using formal statistical methods of genome analysis which convey information on total drift paths (deeper in time), many Baloch DNA samples, for example, appeared to be most similar to Kurds, whereas Makrani samples showed a considerable African input hundreds of years ago.

I have personally performed analysis using these methods on S and W Asian DNA samples, and can share some results, if there is interest, and when I have a little time.

Doesn't GEDmatch show long term autosomal DNA? Also, why would components like CHG and ANE be any different today than from 1000 BC?

Makranis are never pure Negros and many of them only have a significant minority of SSA DNA so its not that surprising where they end up. Not all of them look like Kenyans. Btw, are you half Kurd?