Pashtuns are Yeptalites, Kushans, Scythians?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

article on Sakzai:
Seistan: Cradle of Ancient Culture

Abdul Hai Habibi

Thousands of years ago a group of people came to the land of the great and mighty southern rivers of present day Seistan. These people were the Saks, whose progeny, under the name of Sakzai, still live along the banks of the Helmand River.
The Saks were a brave and robust people. The land where they settled came to be known as Sakistan which was Arabized as Sajistan and later it became Seistan. Arab conquerors called the people of Seistan Sajzi, which is the Arabized form of Sakzai. The Sakzai still live in this area, as far as the western parts of Kandahar and Bost. They are a tall and lanky people with a tanned complexion and speak the Pashto language. They are considered to be a part of the great Durrani tribe. The Sakzai built mighty civilizations and large cities and formed an effective system of government in this land.
The Seistan wetland covers an area of about 150,000 square miles into which four rivers, the Helmand, Khash Rud, Farah Rud and Harut Rud empty. To the south of this wetland lies the Gaud-e Zerreh, another marshy wetland. The desert in between covers an area of roughly 150 by 100 miles. The Farah Rud composed the northern boundary of this parcel of land where Peshawaran and Takht-e Rustam are located. Dasht-e Zerreh forms the southern boundary of this area. Remnants of ancient civilizations are evident in every direction of this vast land. Thousands of mounds and remains of ancient fortresses are seen here that have been destroyed by weathering turning this great civilization into an abode of insects and reptiles. Millions of ancient relics are buried under the rubble of the great cities of Seistan. It is not clear what led to the destruction of these cities. The area with hundreds of thousands inhabitants was one of the most important center of civilization in Asia. Zaranj, the major city of Sakistan, rivaled with Baghdad at the time. No one now lives in ancient Zaranj and the area has turned into a jungle of reeds.
Sakistan was the home of great heroes, kings, scholars and establishers of new religions. Under the rubble of each fallen wall countless cultural relics are hidden. The legendary heroes, Rustam and Yakub were raised in this land. Sajistanians, the inhabitants of this land, played a major role in the development of Islamic sciences and were the founders of the respected Seistan religion. Early Dari (Persian) poets recited their poetry in the court of Yakub Safari in Zaranj and an important part of the odes of Shahnama (Book of Kings) is composed from the fables of Seistan. The most ancient Persian book of prose, Keshf-al-Majoob, was written with Seistani penmanship. Members of the social group of this land, known as Ayaran, formed political and social groups and they gave rise to leaders such as Yakub and Omar, whose fame spread as far as Baghdad and Damascus.
Unfortunately, this cradle of civilization was completely obliterated. Its population was decimated by the Mongol hordes to the extent that when the Englishman, Sir Goldsmith, visited the area in 1872 he reported there were only 45,000 people residing in this vast stretch of land. Thirty years later while Sir MacMohan was delineating the Afghan-Iranian border, according to Tate, the total population of the area was 161,000 people only. (Tate, The Baluchistan Borders).

[MENTION=17856]Sarbani[/MENTION]

I have Ishaqzai family members we have married into. I disagree with this theory. And thats a theory at best without any anthropology, document, or otherwise proof to support it.

These eponyms are shortened often. For example Asadullah Khan becomes Sadu Khan and becomes Sadozai.

Sakzai as far as We knew was a shortened form of Ishaqzai. Its as simple as that.

Yeah this unsubstantiated theory is waaaay out there. Even if Sakistan existed, the burden of proof rests on the hypothesizer to forge a link with something else besides an eponym that sounds like something.

This is no different than the concept of convergent evolution at best. At worst, its an author (Habibi) with certain suspect tendencies

[Samandri]

Iranians even sucks in Photoshop, i mean look at the light reflections on the surface of this plastic plane. This "thing" can only fly in yours and dreams of all the stupid Iranians.

[Afghanfootball]

Iranians even sucks in Photoshop, i mean look at the light reflections on the surface of this plastic plane. This "thing" can only fly in yours and dreams of all the stupid Iranians.

This post has nothing to do with ****rani jets. If you wanna fight the trolls fight them in another thread.

[Darwani]

Do whatever you Tajiks want, the truth is you're little more than Persian-speaking chinky Mongols. Your Tajik women work as prostitutes on the streets of Porkistan, known for a fact.
Of course the relationship is getting better, there are more and more pan-Iranists or pan-Persian supporters.
Bring glory to your culture? Beside bacha bazi of course, what culture do you chinky Mongols have that wasn't stolen off Iranians?

Let me get to real history now. God knows what Tajiks were before the advent of Islam but I'll start at the advent of Islam. When the Arabs invaded Persia, some of the Persian leaders fled to Central Asia. There, they imposed their Persian culture on the people, who were Tajiks. This shows that Tajiks are just Persian-speaking people and not Persians. Just because someone speaks English and adapts English culture doesn't make him an Anglo-Saxon. Now after this, the Mongol armies started invading. Because of the controversy with the Khorezmian (Persian) rulers, they completely obliterated the land, and raped a lot of people in what is now Tajikistan. This intermixing led to the chinky-Mongol look that most Tajiks have. After countless invasions, their weak culture and faith began to show. Russians invaded your Tajikistan and look where they are at now; thank the Pashtuns for protecting you, otherwise your name would be Vladimir and you would've been speaking Russian. That is the story of Tajiks, you aren't Persian.

Iranians don't hate Tajiks neither care if some Tajiks have Turkic features. Pakistani iranic people are closer to Indian hindus then to Iranians. Does this mean hindus raped them?

[Afghanfootball]

Iranians don't hate Tajiks neither care if some Tajiks have Turkic features. Pakistani iranic people are closer to Indian hindus then to Iranians. Does this mean hindus raped them?

You ****ing Iranis are so full of ****. You guys treat our refugees like **** don't try to brainwash our people.

[Sarbani]

Iranians don't hate Tajiks neither care if some Tajiks have Turkic features. Pakistani iranic people are closer to Indian hindus then to Iranians. Does this mean hindus raped them?

More like Hindus were raped by Pashtuns than the other way around. East Iranics are genetically closer to the original Iranic people than you West Iranics are, so I wouldn't be making posts like these if I were you.

[Darwani]

More like Hindus were raped by Pashtuns than the other way around. East Iranics are genetically closer to the original Iranic people than you West Iranics are, so I wouldn't be making posts like these if I were you.

Are you stupid or just uneducated? If some pashtun raped Indian in Delhi 500 years ago that doesn't explain Indian genes in current day Pakistani pashtuns. Especially when they happen to be more Indian then Afghan pashtuns by blood. BTW I will not brag about raping someone, sound barbaric but it's expected from likes of you.

Pakistani pashtuns have been under Indian influence for more then 200 years and there is no end in sight. In that time frame they have gotten more Indian by day, culturally, genetically etc And this process will continue in coming years.

Do we want Pakistan pashtuns to merge with Afghanistan and Indianize Afghan culture and way of life? And even blood? Considering they will surely have bigger numbers. BTW I'm not racist. Just putting this out there because people here insult Tajik for turkic features.

And Iranians hardly have any Indian influence, neither in culture or genetics. So you're closer to original Iranic and Tamil at the same time, good for you buddy.

[Sarbani]

Are you stupid or just uneducated? If some pashtun raped Indian in Delhi 500 years ago that doesn't explain Indian genes in current day Pakistani pashtuns. Especially when they happen to be more Indian then Afghan pashtuns by blood.

Pakistani pashtuns have been under Indian influence for more then 200 years and there is no end in sight. In that time frame they have gotten more Indian by day, culturally, genetically etc And this process will continue in coming years.

Do we want Pakistan pashtuns to merge with Afghanistan and Indianize Afghan culture and way of life? And even blood? Considering they will surely have bigger numbers. BTW I'm not racist. Just putting this out there because people here insult Tajik for turkic features.

And Iranians hardly have any Indian influence, neither in culture or genetics. So you're closer to original Iranic and Tamil at the same time, good for you buddy.

What do you mean by "Indian genes"? Are you talking about the Australoid/Negrito/ASI blood in Lar Pashtuns? This exists in most Afghans as well. It isn't from Indic influence but from Australoid people that were native to the region.

Persians (not inc. Tajiks) and other West Iranics are almost the same as Iraqis, Armenians, and Anatolians genetically and mostly have the Arabian J haplogroup. Are you guys raped Semites?

If the Pashtun regions of Pak merge with Afg, they won't try to "Indianize" Afg. The only Indic influences are in food and language. The genetic difference is insignificant. Pashtuns from Quetta and Kandahar are still genetically closer to each other than either are to Kabuli and Peshawari Pashtuns.

[Darwani]

What do you mean by "Indian genes"? Are you talking about the Australoid/Negrito/ASI blood in Lar Pashtuns? This exists in most Afghans as well. It isn't from Indic influence but from Australoid people that were native to the region.

Persians (not inc. Tajiks) and other West Iranics are almost the same as Iraqis, Armenians, and Anatolians genetically and mostly have the Arabian J haplogroup. Are you guys raped Semites?

If the Pashtun regions of Pak merge with Afg, they won't try to "Indianize" Afg. The only Indic influences are in food and language. The genetic difference is insignificant. Pashtuns from Quetta and Kandahar are still genetically closer to each other than either are to Kabuli and Peshawari Pashtuns.

Austroloid, ASI or what ever you want to call it. Yes everyone around have it because humans are related. But some have it more and others less. Fact is Pak pashtuns are more Indian and closer to hindus then to Iranians. Same way Afghan pashtuns are less Indian and closer to Iranians then to hindus.

And dear genetics differences are not insignificant. Quetta pashtuns are more Indian then Kandahar ones. It will not be just Indian language which they will bring but also blood and way of life. And more time passes more Indian they will become. Let's be honest there is no way both regions will merge, we are just talking hypothetically or as others say day dreaming. Best way to reduce Indian influence on Afghan pashtuns is to seal Pak-Afghan border and restrict movement of people. I also hope Afghan refugees are not to much Indianized by the time they come back.

No one brought rape here, I was only correcting that guy who was calling Tajiks rape product of mongols. Iranians don't have much of non-caucasian genes, less then 2% at most. Iranians are purest Iranics.

[Sarbani]

Austroloid, ASI or what ever you want to call it. Yes everyone around have it because humans are related. But some have it more and others less. Fact is Pak pashtuns are more Indian and closer to hindus then to Iranians. Same way Afghan pashtuns are less Indian and closer to Iranians then to hindus.

And dear genetics differences are not insignificant. Quetta pashtuns are more Indian then Kandahar ones. It will not be just Indian language which they will bring but also blood and way of life. And more time passes more Indian they will become. Let's be honest there is no way both regions will merge, we are just talking hypothetically or as others say day dreaming. Best way to reduce Indian influence on Afghan pashtuns is to seal Pak-Afghan border and restrict movement of people. I also hope Afghan refugees are not to much Indianized by the time they come back.

No one brought rape here, I was only correcting that guy who was calling Tajiks rape product of mongols. Iranians don't have much of non-caucasian genes, less then 2% at most. Iranians are purest Iranics.

Not everyone has ASI. It barely exists among West Iranics. It's in significant amounts among East Iranics which is why Afghanistan is considered part of "South Asia" in 23andMe and the "Indus Valley" region on DNAtribes. The genetic differences between Lar ("Pakistani") and Bar Pashtuns are negligent and are more north-south based than east-west (Pak-Afg) based. Quetta Pashtuns may have 1% more ASI than Kandahar Pashtuns, but they have slightly less ASI than those from Kabul/Nangarhar. The difference in ASI between Lar and Bar Pashtuns is less than 3% on average. You think any sane person would propose to draw a permanent artificial border between people of the same ethnic group because one side is close to ~3% ASI at most? Bar Pashtuns also have slightly more ASI than Tajiks do. Also, you forget that almost all Lar Pashtuns that are mixed with [high caste] Hindus (a small minority of them) live in Punjab and Karachi. In KPK & FATA, there are barely any Hindus, and among those Hindus, only a tiny minority marry into Pashtuns.

Nobody will bring an Indian language in such a hypothetical scenario. Lar Pashtuns don't speak Urdu at home or anything. There are just some Indic influences in Pashto which would get weeded out very quickly if KPK/FATA/Balochistan got disconnected from Punjab/Sindh. Most Urdu loanwords in Pashto are actually originally from Persian. The other impact Indians have on Lar Pashtuns is food, but that's mainly just in big cities like Peshawar.

Pashtuns are closer to Burushos (who look very different from Hindus) and Hindus such as Dards, high caste Sindhis, & Punjabis/Jatts than to Persians (from Iran), but not to Hindus as a whole, just a small minority of high caste people in the Indus River basin. Pashtuns are almost equidistant between high caste Gujaratis and Persians, but are closer to Persians than they are to the vast majority of Hindus on PCA plots. Also, phenotype doesn't always mean genotype.

Also, most Persians have the J haplogroup, the same haplogroup as other West Asians, whereas the original Iranic haplogroup is R1a, a haplogroup dominant in East Iranians (including Tajiks).

[Aryana]

Iranians are purest Iranics.

Are you joking, or are you retarded? Iranians not only by look, but by genetics are very Semitic and Indian.

Take a look at this guy.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnVunLdHwbkBrlMTGE0Dxv4cFn_zpVeHinVKZSaC7F0F8Tn-pMnyjqgVe0

Would you for a second even consider that he wasn't Arab? And you're saying that aIranians are the purest Iranics. I've come across Iranians looking Arab, chinky-Mongol, and even Indian looking.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA)#/media/File%3AHaplogroup_J_(Y-DNA).svg

[Afghanfootball]

Dont know much about genetics but this fst distance chart seems to make sense.
# Population (source) Distance
1 Pathan (HGDP) 10.6
2 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 12.3
3 Burusho (HGDP) 13.9
4 Balochi (HGDP) 16.28
5 Brahui (HGDP) 17.39
6 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 17.71
7 Sindhi (HGDP) 17.93
8 Makrani 18.39
9 Kalash 19.27
10 Lezgins (Behar) 21.32
11 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 21.83
12 Chechens (Yunusbayev) 21.99
13 North_Ossetians (Yunusbayev) 22.53
14 Balkars (Yunusbayev) 22.75
15 Adygei (HGDP) 22.76
16 Iranian (Dodecad) 23.31
17 Bnei_Menashe_Jews 23.98
18 Iranians (Behar) 26.13
19 Nogais (Yunusbayev) 27.08
20 Kurd (Dodecad) 27.17

[Darwani]

Not everyone has ASI. It barely exists among West Iranics. It's in significant amounts among East Iranics which is why Afghanistan is considered part of "South Asia" in 23andMe and the "Indus Valley" region on DNAtribes. The genetic differences between Lar ("Pakistani") and Bar Pashtuns are negligent and are more north-south based than east-west (Pak-Afg) based. Quetta Pashtuns may have 1% more ASI than Kandahar Pashtuns, but they have slightly less ASI than those from Kabul/Nangarhar. The difference in ASI between Lar and Bar Pashtuns is less than 3% on average. You think any sane person would propose to draw a permanent artificial border between people of the same ethnic group because one side is close to ~3% ASI at most? Bar Pashtuns also have slightly more ASI than Tajiks do. Also, you forget that almost all Lar Pashtuns that are mixed with [high caste] Hindus (a small minority of them) live in Punjab and Karachi. In KPK & FATA, there are barely any Hindus, and among those Hindus, only a tiny minority marry into Pashtuns.

Nobody will bring an Indian language in such a hypothetical scenario. Lar Pashtuns don't speak Urdu at home or anything. There are just some Indic influences in Pashto which would get weeded out very quickly if KPK/FATA/Balochistan got disconnected from Punjab/Sindh. Most Urdu loanwords in Pashto are actually originally from Persian. The other impact Indians have on Lar Pashtuns is food, but that's mainly just in big cities like Peshawar.

Pashtuns are closer to Burushos (who look very different from Hindus) and Hindus such as Dards, high caste Sindhis, & Punjabis/Jatts than to Persians (from Iran), but not to Hindus as a whole, just a small minority of high caste people in the Indus River basin. Pashtuns are almost equidistant between high caste Gujaratis and Persians, but are closer to Persians than they are to the vast majority of Hindus on PCA plots. Also, phenotype doesn't always mean genotype.

Also, most Persians have the J haplogroup, the same haplogroup as other West Asians, whereas the original Iranic haplogroup is R1a, a haplogroup dominant in East Iranians (including Tajiks).

I used to see lots of Pakistani pashtuns in Gulf countries and always wondered why they don't look closer to Iranians like Afghan pashtuns. Then I saw DNA reports on internet and it became clear. I doubt you know much about genetics.

How are punjabis minority? Are they not majority in Pakistan? Which proves my point about Pak pashtuns being closer to their hindu neighbours then to Iranians.

I didn't propose border because of large difference in ASI, I'm not racist like you guys! I proposed border to reduce Indian influence on Afghanistan. If and when Taliban are defeated, then every pashtun will adapt Dari/Persian culture just like Pakistani pashtuns have adopted Indian culture since last 200 years.

And I would like to believe if choice is between Indian and Dari/Persian then Afghan pashtuns at least will choose later, Pak pashtuns are lost case.

[Firdousi]

Not everyone has ASI. It barely exists among West Iranics. It's in significant amounts among East Iranics which is why Afghanistan is considered part of "South Asia" in 23andMe and the "Indus Valley" region on DNAtribes. The genetic differences between Lar ("Pakistani") and Bar Pashtuns are negligent and are more north-south based than east-west (Pak-Afg) based. Quetta Pashtuns may have 1% more ASI than Kandahar Pashtuns, but they have slightly less ASI than those from Kabul/Nangarhar. The difference in ASI between Lar and Bar Pashtuns is less than 3% on average. You think any sane person would propose to draw a permanent artificial border between people of the same ethnic group because one side is close to ~3% ASI at most? Bar Pashtuns also have slightly more ASI than Tajiks do. Also, you forget that almost all Lar Pashtuns that are mixed with [high caste] Hindus (a small minority of them) live in Punjab and Karachi. In KPK & FATA, there are barely any Hindus, and among those Hindus, only a tiny minority marry into Pashtuns.

Nobody will bring an Indian language in such a hypothetical scenario. Lar Pashtuns don't speak Urdu at home or anything. There are just some Indic influences in Pashto which would get weeded out very quickly if KPK/FATA/Balochistan got disconnected from Punjab/Sindh. Most Urdu loanwords in Pashto are actually originally from Persian. The other impact Indians have on Lar Pashtuns is food, but that's mainly just in big cities like Peshawar.

Pashtuns are closer to Burushos (who look very different from Hindus) and Hindus such as Dards, high caste Sindhis, & Punjabis/Jatts than to Persians (from Iran), but not to Hindus as a whole, just a small minority of high caste people in the Indus River basin. Pashtuns are almost equidistant between high caste Gujaratis and Persians, but are closer to Persians than they are to the vast majority of Hindus on PCA plots. Also, phenotype doesn't always mean genotype.

Also, most Persians have the J haplogroup, the same haplogroup as other West Asians, whereas the original Iranic haplogroup is R1a, a haplogroup dominant in East Iranians (including Tajiks).

Pashtuns are originally an Indian tribe. Al Biruni wrote so in Tarikh al Hind when he passed by Soleiman Mountains in India (modern Pakistan but Indian and Pakistan are the same country). I have met so many Pashtuns from Pakistan in the GCC and they are all like Punjabis. Just look at Ustad Awal Mir.

[Darwani]

Are you joking, or are you retarded? Iranians not only by look, but by genetics are very Semitic and Indian.

Take a look at this guy.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...8Tn-pMnyjqgVe0

Would you for a second even consider that he wasn't Arab? And you're saying that aIranians are the purest Iranics. I've come across Iranians looking Arab, chinky-Mongol, and even Indian looking.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hapl..._J_(Y-DNA).svg

Are you Pakistani? Pashtun or Afghan pashtun? Why you insult turkic features? Large number of pashtuns have same Chinki mongol look you make fun of. And not to forget Indian look which many of them have especially the ones in Pakistan.

I never claimed Iranians looked like Germans. But chinki mongols are non-existent and Indian looking ones are also non-existent compared to pashtuns. Genetics don't lie