Pashtuns are Yeptalites, Kushans, Scythians?

[Dilawerkhan]

Doesn't GEDmatch show long term autosomal DNA? Also, why would components like CHG and ANE be any different today than from 1000 BC?

Makranis are never pure Negros and many of them only have a significant minority of SSA DNA so its not that surprising where they end up. Not all of them look like Kenyans. Btw, are you half Kurd?

Gedmatch calculators are allele frequency based, which means that they are based on recent genetic drift. Although they would reflect admixture events (interaction) further back in time than say 23andMe (haplotype segement matching + propriety algorithm geared to minimization of minor components), it is nonetheless limited to recent drift, which in IMO reflects events up to 500-1000 years ago.

I never said CHG and ANE are different today than 1000 BC. They are based on specific samples, Kotias, Satsurbila, and Malta Boy (Siberia). They are what they are. What I did say is that if you were to run the ancestors of Pashtun and Tajik from 2000 years ago through a gedmatch calculator, their results would likely be different than the modern Tajik and Pashtuns.

I also did not say Makranis are negroes. My analysis using formal methods indicates that Makrani ancestors had more SSA than present Makranis. This SSA appears to have become diluted by admixture with other SC Asians.

It is the SSA input into Makranis that places them further from Baloch than Kurds are to Baloch using formal methods that consider total shared drift (consider admixture events further back in time than allele frequency based admixture calculators). PCAs based on ADMIXTURE calculator results, as well as ADMIXTURE results themselves, on the other hand, will show Makranis closer to Baloch than Kurds.

I can share the formal results that show Kurds closer to Baloch than Makranis if there is interest.

With regards to my background, I have ancestry from Kurd tribes (Iraq/Iran) border as well as Sarhadi Kurds (SE Kurds of Balochistan - Yar Ahmadzai and Ghulam Shahzai of Kurd tribe). Ultimately though Sarhadi Kurds trace their ancestry to Zangana and Yelhani tribes of Iraq/Iran border if you go back in time.

Yar Ahmadzai are primarily Baloch, but do have some Kurd and likely Pashtun admixture, since they have lived side by side for so long. Ghulam Shahzai are primarily Kurd, but likely have Baloch and Pashtun admixture from neighboring those groups. It was common practice in the past to forge marriage alliances amongst groups to strengthen their positions.

[Sarbani]

Herodotus wrote that the Pasargádai, Maráphioi, Máspioi, Panthialaîoi, Dērousiaîoi, and Germánioi, are the sedentary Persian tribes and that the Dáoi, Márdoi, Dropikoí, and Sagártioi are the nomadic Persian tribes. In this respect, the Dropikoi are the Drangians and the Paktyans who were spread over the two provinces of Drangiana and Arachosia/Hauravata which formed one Satrapy under Barsaëntes.

Also, Petolemy writes that the Arachosians were divided into Parsyetae, and, to the south, the Sydri, Rhoplutae, and Eoritae. As you can see the name Parsyetae indicates their Persian origin.

So basically, the people of Arachosia (Paktyans) and Ariana were Persians and not East Iranians. East Iranians (including Pashtuns) came with the Bactrian (Kushan, Hephthalite) invasions later on.

These are the sources:

Hoffmann, “Der Avesta in der Persis,” in Prolegomena to the Sources on the History of Pre-Islamic Central Asia, ed. J. Harmatta, Budapest, 1979, pp. 89-93.

W. Vogelsang, Kandahar and Arachosia in the Early Achaemenid Period, thesis, Leiden, 1981.

Most of the info can be found here: ARACHOSIA – Encyclopaedia Iranica

[MENTION=18277]Afghanfootball[/MENTION] [MENTION=18842]History of Pashtuns[/MENTION] [MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION]

[Firdousi]

Herodotus wrote that the Pasargádai, Maráphioi, Máspioi, Panthialaîoi, Dērousiaîoi, and Germánioi, are the sedentary Persian tribes and that the Dáoi, Márdoi, Dropikoí, and Sagártioi are the nomadic Persian tribes. In this respect, the Dropikoi are the Drangians and the Paktyans who were spread over the two provinces of Drangiana and Arachosia/Hauravata which formed one Satrapy under Barsaëntes.

Also, Petolemy writes that the Arachosians were divided into Parsyetae, and, to the south, the Sydri, Rhoplutae, and Eoritae. As you can see the name Parsyetae indicates their Persian origin.

So basically, the people of Arachosia (Paktyans) and Ariana were Persians and not East Iranians. East Iranians (including Pashtuns) came with the Bactrian (Kushan, Hephthalite) invasions later on.

These are the sources:

Hoffmann, “Der Avesta in der Persis,” in Prolegomena to the Sources on the History of Pre-Islamic Central Asia, ed. J. Harmatta, Budapest, 1979, pp. 89-93.

W. Vogelsang, Kandahar and Arachosia in the Early Achaemenid Period, thesis, Leiden, 1981.

Most of the info can be found here: ARACHOSIA – Encyclopaedia Iranica

[MENTION=18277]Afghanfootball[/MENTION] [MENTION=18842]History of Pashtuns[/MENTION] [MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION]

You are taken as a given that Arachosia was inhabited by Pashtuns just because today most of his inhabitants are Pashtuns. You are wrong. Back then did not exist Pashtuns nor "Tajiks". Most of the people living in Aria, Bactria, Soghdia, Arachosia and Drangiana did not even know the meaning of "Pashtun" or "Tajik". Since according your own source those places were inhabited by "Persians" that leads me to believe that Arachosia was originally inhabited by the ancestors of "Tajiks" not "Pashtuns.

[Afghanfootball]

Herodotus wrote that the Pasargádai, Maráphioi, Máspioi, Panthialaîoi, Dērousiaîoi, and Germánioi, are the sedentary Persian tribes and that the Dáoi, Márdoi, Dropikoí, and Sagártioi are the nomadic Persian tribes. In this respect, the Dropikoi are the Drangians and the Paktyans who were spread over the two provinces of Drangiana and Arachosia/Hauravata which formed one Satrapy under Barsaëntes.

Also, Petolemy writes that the Arachosians were divided into Parsyetae, and, to the south, the Sydri, Rhoplutae, and Eoritae. As you can see the name Parsyetae indicates their Persian origin.

So basically, the people of Arachosia (Paktyans) and Ariana were Persians and not East Iranians. East Iranians (including Pashtuns) came with the Bactrian (Kushan, Hephthalite) invasions later on.

These are the sources:

Hoffmann, “Der Avesta in der Persis,” in Prolegomena to the Sources on the History of Pre-Islamic Central Asia, ed. J. Harmatta, Budapest, 1979, pp. 89-93.

W. Vogelsang, Kandahar and Arachosia in the Early Achaemenid Period, thesis, Leiden, 1981.

Most of the info can be found here: ARACHOSIA – Encyclopaedia Iranica

[MENTION=18277]Afghanfootball[/MENTION] [MENTION=18842]History of Pashtuns[/MENTION] [MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION]

If Arachosia, Drangiana, Aria etc were inhabited by ethnic Persians then they would have been considered apart of Persia by Darius in his inscription at Behstun. Carmania and other satraps who were considered other nations by other historians were considered Persia by Persian kings however Bactria etc were not.

Not only that but Sagartoi were considered to have half Persian half Pactyan attire so it seems Pactyans were considered a different people by Herodotus. Also Parsyatea were also originally called Pargyatea and Apartyea by Pliny the elder Parsyatea was a correction by modern historians I believe and most of those historians link the name to Pashtuns.

But also if your theory is correct I dont see how you can come to the conclusion that the population of Ariana was Persian?

[Firdousi]

If Arachosia, Drangiana, Aria etc were inhabited by ethnic Persians then they would have been considered apart of Persia by Darius in his inscription at Behstun. Carmania and other satraps who were considered other nations by other historians were considered Persia by Persian kings however Bactria etc were not.

Not only that but Sagartoi were considered to have half Persian half Pactyan attire so it seems Pactyans were considered a different people by Herodotus. Also Parsyatea were also originally called Pargyatea and Apartyea by Pliny the elder Parsyatea was a correction by modern historians I believe and most of those historians link the name to Pashtuns.

But also if your theory is correct I dont see how you can come to the conclusion that the population of Ariana was Persian?

Thats because you are a ghool who want to be badly related with those people just to make you feel better. Truth is Pashtuns did not even exist back then, whether you like it or not lol

[Sarbani]

If Arachosia, Drangiana, Aria etc were inhabited by ethnic Persians then they would have been considered apart of Persia by Darius in his inscription at Behstun. Carmania and other satraps who were considered other nations by other historians were considered Persia by Persian kings however Bactria etc were not.

Not only that but Sagartoi were considered to have half Persian half Pactyan attire so it seems Pactyans were considered a different people by Herodotus. Also Parsyatea were also originally called Pargyatea and Apartyea by Pliny the elder Parsyatea was a correction by modern historians I believe and most of those historians link the name to Pashtuns.

But also if your theory is correct I dont see how you can come to the conclusion that the population of Ariana was Persian?

I don't remember for sure where I heard that Ariana was Persian. You make good points regarding Paktyans wearing different attire and stuff. I've also heard the term "ethnic Paktyan" before. I'll look more into it and see if I can find any more information. Drangiana and Arachosia were definitely one province though and it wouldn't make sense to make them one if they were ethnically different.

[Sarbani]

If Arachosia, Drangiana, Aria etc were inhabited by ethnic Persians then they would have been considered apart of Persia by Darius in his inscription at Behstun. Carmania and other satraps who were considered other nations by other historians were considered Persia by Persian kings however Bactria etc were not.

Not only that but Sagartoi were considered to have half Persian half Pactyan attire so it seems Pactyans were considered a different people by Herodotus. Also Parsyatea were also originally called Pargyatea and Apartyea by Pliny the elder Parsyatea was a correction by modern historians I believe and most of those historians link the name to Pashtuns.

But also if your theory is correct I dont see how you can come to the conclusion that the population of Ariana was Persian?

The people of Dahae (north of Tajikistan) were Scythians (Saka) but Herodotus called them nomadic Persians, so its probably the same case with some other regions like Arachosia and Aria. It seems Persian was used very loosely back then to refer to any Iranic, although some lands mentioned by Herodotus such as Sagartia and Carmania probably really were Persian.

DAHAE – Encyclopaedia Iranica

[Barakzai Supply]

I would like to visit Tajikistan actually. It looks like an interesting and modern country

[Sarbani]

Paktyans are contrasted with Persians.

Herodotus: The Seventh, Eighth, & Ninth Books - Herodotus, Reginald Walter Macan - Google Books

[MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION] [MENTION=18277]Afghanfootball[/MENTION]

[Afghanfootball]

I would like to visit Tajikistan actually. It looks like an interesting and modern country

Id rather visit Uzbekistan.

[Afghanfootball]

Paktyans are contrasted with Persians.

Herodotus: The Seventh, Eighth, & Ninth Books - Herodotus, Reginald Walter Macan - Google Books

[MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION] [MENTION=18277]Afghanfootball[/MENTION]

According to your link they had a leather vest. Maybe that could be the waskat? Also very interesting to see their country is mentioned right before Bactria.

[Afghanfootball]

it seems the Pactyans could have been Indians?
Indian Antiquary - Google Books

[Aryana]

Thats because you are a ghool who want to be badly related with those people just to make you feel better. Truth is Pashtuns did not even exist back then, whether you like it or not lol

The term Tajik didn't exist before the Mongol invasions. To be honest, I don't know why Tajiks want to claim Sogdians, Bactrians, Kushans, Ghorids (all of them Eastern Iranian) and at the same time claim that they are Persians (Western Iranians).

[Afghanfootball]

The term Tajik didn't exist before the Mongol invasions. To be honest, I don't know why Tajiks want to claim Sogdians, Bactrians, Kushans, Ghorids (all of them Eastern Iranian) and at the same time claim that they are Persians (Western Iranians).

Sooner or later they'll start claiming Chengiz as one of their own.

[Sarbani]

it seems the Pactyans could have been Indians?
Indian Antiquary - Google Books

It says that the Indians border the city of Kaspatyrus and the country of Paktyika. Since the Gandharans bordered Paktyika (Arachosia), the Indian tribe the writer is referring to are most likely the Gandharans.