Afghan nationalism vs Pashtun nationalism

[ScimitarXEdge]

It's hard to take someone who's got a photo extoling Lenin seriously when it comes to the benefit of Pashtoons.

[Toramana]

Ah, Fascism...so modest in it's appeal.

My Arab friend first you should learn the meaning of fascism by pondering over your own thinking/desire for a universal Arab/Muslim state (Islamo-facscism). Lewanay Zalmay just desires a state where Pashtun identity and culture get consolidated in a pluralistic and democratic environment without getting spelled over its geo-political boundaries into the culturo-political space of other people just like the Arab fascism did some dozen centuries back.

[Paikaar]

Tajiks the original inhabitants of this land

Fish, do you accept the boundaries bestowed upon you by Soviet Russia and the British Empire? Seems hollow to me to adhere to those boundaries.

I believe in Pashtun nationalism. A state in which more than 90% of the population is represented by Pashtuns, whether it's Loy Afghanistan (Pashtunkhwa rejoining Afghanistan) or Pashtunistan (all Pashtuns becoming independent) is the ultimate destiny of Pashtuns. Pashtuns with different ideas come in the way.

Some want to stick to their fellow Muslim Hindustanis and Punjabis (Islamic unity) while others want to group-hug their Central Asian nomadic cousins (Pan Central-Asian-ism?). If I want multiculturalism, I'll put on a kilt, a Hawaiin fruit-hat and move to San Francisco and marry Allejandaro. But I don't want that. I want a state that purely and solely works for the interests of Pashtuns. It's okay if 10% of the people in that state are Turk or Irani (Tajik or Persian-speaking), but not more than that. Pakistaniyat and such Afghanistaniyat are riddled with poverty.

I think your people live in some utopian state or maybe even pandora ;p

You call Uzbeks and Tajiks (Farsiwans) alien to this land while actually it is totally the opposite. Pashtuns are aliens to most parts of Afghanistan as it has been less than 90 years since they spread to western and central Afghanistan thanks to royal decreess granting them plots in the fertile lands of west and north, the homelands of Tajiks and Uzbeks.

Afghanistan has never been a state. It is divided alongside ethnic, linguistic and racial lines. The only thing which has held it together is the geopolitics and Islam.

The name Afghanistan started being used by British officials in 19th century. Before that this region (excluding parts of eastern and small parts of southern Afghanistan) as Khorasan. The khorasani identity was craved with Sunni Islam and Persian language, there has not been a single instance to indicated Pashtu had any role to play in that reign.

Even Ahmad Shah Abdali, used the title Emir of Khorasan, in his official court related matters.

Herat and Balkh were the vibrant cities of Khorasan inhabited by Persians(tajiks) and Uzbeks (turks). Pashtuns were only relocated in areas 1940s onwards. How can you call others mohajirs????? Jalalabad was even a major Tajik city. So are Gardez and Ghazni upto now inhabited primarily by Tajiks.

This is not the era of Zahir khan and autocracy of a single tribe. Any push to eliminate others or force them into accepting pashto will result in break up of the country and pashtons left confined from jalalabad to kandahar ina narrow strech of land.

The indentity of Afghan was coined by Mahmood Tarzi in 1900s and official declared by king amanullah.

I was a big fan of this Idea and of living side by side with my pashton brohters!! but day by day I have changed my mind.

Why can't your leaders and EVEN Taliban/ Afghan mellat party or etc.. declare that this is pashtons country and that Afghans=Pasthons????? Tell me . Coz there won't be any country left then

[Paikaar]

Samanids - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Samanid Tajiks

[ScimitarXEdge]

Whether you can claim that Tajiks are the "native inhabitants" a claim which is dubious since the ethnology of being Tajik itself is very ambiguous; given that Soghdians, Khwarzemians and other ethnic groups became eventually amalgamated under the label Tajik in the aftermath of the Mongol Invasions.

The flaws of Pashtoon Nationalism does not legitimize Tajik and or Persian Nationalism either.

The fact is no one, except perhaps Hazaras can truly be described as "alien" from an ethnological perspective to Afghanistan and Hazaras have become assimilated to such a degree they cannot be described of as alien anymore. The same applies to even Arabs who have resided in Afghanistan for 1,400 years

[Nick]

I think your people live in some utopian state or maybe even pandora ;p

You call Uzbeks and Tajiks (Farsiwans) alien to this land while actually it is totally the opposite. Pashtuns are aliens to most parts of Afghanistan as it has been less than 90 years since they spread to western and central Afghanistan thanks to royal decreess granting them plots in the fertile lands of west and north, the homelands of Tajiks and Uzbeks.

Afghanistan has never been a state. It is divided alongside ethnic, linguistic and racial lines. The only thing which has held it together is the geopolitics and Islam.

The name Afghanistan started being used by British officials in 19th century. Before that this region (excluding parts of eastern and small parts of southern Afghanistan) as Khorasan. The khorasani identity was craved with Sunni Islam and Persian language, there has not been a single instance to indicated Pashtu had any role to play in that reign.

Even Ahmad Shah Abdali, used the title Emir of Khorasan, in his official court related matters.

Herat and Balkh were the vibrant cities of Khorasan inhabited by Persians(tajiks) and Uzbeks (turks). Pashtuns were only relocated in areas 1940s onwards. How can you call others mohajirs????? Jalalabad was even a major Tajik city. So are Gardez and Ghazni upto now inhabited primarily by Tajiks.

This is not the era of Zahir khan and autocracy of a single tribe. Any push to eliminate others or force them into accepting pashto will result in break up of the country and pashtons left confined from jalalabad to kandahar ina narrow strech of land.

The indentity of Afghan was coined by Mahmood Tarzi in 1900s and official declared by king amanullah.

I was a big fan of this Idea and of living side by side with my pashton brohters!! but day by day I have changed my mind.

Why can't your leaders and EVEN Taliban/ Afghan mellat party or etc.. declare that this is pashtons country and that Afghans=Pasthons????? Tell me . Coz there won't be any country left then

LOL Good Joke not a bad one to start with after long time I truly wanted to be entertained, not be so emotion mr Parsistani, BTW how is Tajikam forum slow down recently or what? cause really you guys would not have wanted to waste your time here. Anyways welcome hope you enjoy your stay. Learn some things to advance your socializing with your enemies. LOL Wikipedia,

Pashtuns were only relocated in areas 1940s onwards. How can you call others mohajirs????? Jalalabad was even a major Tajik city. So are Gardez and Ghazni upto now inhabited primarily by Tajiks.

BTW For those Shias, anti-Afghans, Gazalbash, and Ghalis as well as our own few lost young brothers/sister who are disputing Afghan origin or what you call them "pashton brothers" I have a simple answer for you guys. Yes as you guessed it right. In fact the whole South western Asia were Irano-Turkics Hopes sorry I mean Tajikistanis, and that since Project Grudge which started around that year has proven that Afghans are aliens, and today a Earth like Planet with signs of Water has been found 20 light years away and therefore true home of Pashtons is Gliese 581 d. LOL Oh Wait a minute I am sorry once a Ghali told me not to use the word Tajikistani for Tajikistani afghani immigrants but rather use the word "Tajik" because Tajikistani since 1993 is a nationality of a Persian speaking Turkistan called "Tajikistan".

[Khidr]

I think your people live in some utopian state or maybe even pandora ;p

You call Uzbeks and Tajiks (Farsiwans) alien to this land while actually it is totally the opposite. Pashtuns are aliens to most parts of Afghanistan as it has been less than 90 years since they spread to western and central Afghanistan thanks to royal decreess granting them plots in the fertile lands of west and north, the homelands of Tajiks and Uzbeks.

Afghanistan has never been a state. It is divided alongside ethnic, linguistic and racial lines. The only thing which has held it together is the geopolitics and Islam.

The name Afghanistan started being used by British officials in 19th century. Before that this region (excluding parts of eastern and small parts of southern Afghanistan) as Khorasan. The khorasani identity was craved with Sunni Islam and Persian language, there has not been a single instance to indicated Pashtu had any role to play in that reign.

Even Ahmad Shah Abdali, used the title Emir of Khorasan, in his official court related matters.

Herat and Balkh were the vibrant cities of Khorasan inhabited by Persians(tajiks) and Uzbeks (turks). Pashtuns were only relocated in areas 1940s onwards. How can you call others mohajirs????? Jalalabad was even a major Tajik city. So are Gardez and Ghazni upto now inhabited primarily by Tajiks.

This is not the era of Zahir khan and autocracy of a single tribe. Any push to eliminate others or force them into accepting pashto will result in break up of the country and pashtons left confined from jalalabad to kandahar ina narrow strech of land.

The indentity of Afghan was coined by Mahmood Tarzi in 1900s and official declared by king amanullah.

I was a big fan of this Idea and of living side by side with my pashton brohters!! but day by day I have changed my mind.

Why can't your leaders and EVEN Taliban/ Afghan mellat party or etc.. declare that this is pashtons country and that Afghans=Pasthons????? Tell me . Coz there won't be any country left then

Salaam Bache Kaka,

Very well said.

As for your comment about living side by side with Pashtuns, I too used to believe in that and promoted Afghan National Unity. But I think for the first time in my life, I can probably say that I don't see myself as an Afghan anymore...and don't feel any fondness towards the modern state of Afghanistan.

Although we may have many Pashtun friends, aunties, uncles, fiancées, wives, etc, who are decent people, we can't ignore the obvious. We can't reconcile with Pashtuns politically. Our land will never be ours, we will never belong in our own land, so long as we are Afghans and our land is called Afghanistan.

We are today in this sorry state (where our language and we are seen as foreigners) because of the good hearted intentions or stupidity (depending on which way you look at it) of our grand-fathers and their fathers who were fooled by the name of holy Islam by certain Pashtun leaders.

Our parents left on us this Afghanistan legacy and all the baggage’s that it comes with, the question is do we want to pass on this Afghanistan to our children or do we offer them something better...much better?

[Khidr]

An Afghan Pashtun’s idea of nationalism is very liquid, sly and contradictory. Depending on their audience, they change between ‘Afghan Nationalism and Pashtun Nationalism.’


Publicly (when conversing with Tajiks and other “Afghans”) the ‘level-headed’ Pashtuns preach a vague but inclusive idea of ‘Afghan Nationalism’ that promotes the idea of ethnic and linguistic equality, unity based on Afghanistan’s national boundary, Islam and unity against Iran, Pakistan, etc.

However, privately when conversing amongst themselves (as is blatantly obviously from this forum, youtube, and opinions of their notable scholars) they preach a unity based on Pashtun ethnicity (Lar o Bar) and Pashtun superiority over other ethnic groups in Afghanistan. By superiority, I mean preaching baseless lies such as that Pashtuns are the majority in Afghanistan and that Afghanistan is the domain of Pashtuns and other ethnicities are minorities and essentially ‘second class citizens’.


Take for example this Pashtunist Parliamentarian. He merely said in the first video that “we are all Afghans (typical Pashtun 'party line' when addressing Tajiks) but also used the words majority (aksaryat) and minority (aqalyat) in his introduction.


In the second video of the same show, 3 Tajiks immediately noticed the use of the word ‘majority and minority’ and challenged him to elaborate on it, and confirm if he is implying that a majority ethnicity exists in Afghanistan?
The Pashtunist Parliamentarian, did not have the audacity to confirm this and backtracked, instead of addressing the question, once again repeated the party line that Afghanistan is a country of various ethnicities.


YouTube - ‫برنامه مناظره کابل - مشارکت ملی 1‬‎


YouTube - ‫برنامه مناظره کابل - مشارکت ملی 3‬‎

[Shayesta]

But I think for the first time in my life, I can probably say that I don't see myself as an Afghan anymore...and don't feel any fondness towards the modern state of Afghanistan.

Would you mind if I ask you to elaborate on what exactly made you think this way? Why did you lose your interest in first place?

We can't reconcile with Pashtuns politically.

What about other ethnics in the country? Do you seriously believe if you form a country along with Uzbeks and Hazaras you will get along politically? If yes then why and how? Don't forget that's not all Pukhtoon-Tajik only.

Our land will never be ours, we will never belong in our own land, so long as we are Afghans and our land is called Afghanistan.

Mate, no Pukhtoon has got control over the Northern areas so I got no idea what you on about? Even if you separate and Hazaras and Uzbeks demand the same, do you know how many land you have to lose to them since their presence is more than heavy in Tajik-dominated areas?

We are today in this sorry state because of the good hearted intentions or stupidity of our grand-fathers and their fathers who were fooled by the name of holy Islam by certain Pashtun leaders.

This is exactly what Pukhtoons believe in as well; That for the sake of Islam our fore-fathers lost their language and culture to Dari and Tajiks. Nonetheless I can't remember which Pukhtoon in the past stood up for Islam? And as far as I have always known Afghanistan, Tajiks have always been way less religious than Pukhtoons and Kabul (before the wars) only is a good example of that,

Our parents left on us this Afghanistan legacy and all the baggage’s that it comes with, the question is do we want to pass on this Afghanistan to our children or do we offer them something better.

A country can't give you anything, only you can do something for a country. Yes, sometimes even I say 'this' country has given me a lot and 'that' hasn't at all, though our entire point is dependent on what people of those countries are doing, or have done. Now it's all up to you, how much you are capable of giving Afghanistan and more importantly, how much you want to give Afghanistan.

Publicly (when conversing with Tajiks and other “Afghans”) the ‘level-headed’ Pashtuns preach a vague but inclusive idea of ‘Afghan Nationalism’. However, privately when conversing amongst themselves (as is blatantly obviously from this forum, youtube, and opinions of their notable scholars) they preach a unity based on Pashtun ethnicity

Even I am one of those types who doesn't want to lose Northern areas, yet I want to have stable relationships with Pakhtunkhwa. Is there any wrong in that? Pukhtoons by the way are very straight-forward in cases of unity and whom to unite with, maybe except for a few who will change words with either side. Even from every single Tajik I met in real-life talks of unity while apparently some of them have been singing different songs online.......

By superiority, I mean preaching baseless lies such as that Pashtuns are the majority in Afghanistan

Mate, Pukhtoons are majority in Afghanistan. Yes, not a huge majority maybe but they still are majority. Don't forget that at least a million of us (and I am not exaggerating at all) have lost their culture and language by moving to Northern areas and adapted Dari. The stream for such Pukhtoons in incredibly huge, imagine what our exact numbers would have been if we wouldn't have lost oru culture and language in first place.

[Khidr]

Would you mind if I ask you to elaborate on what exactly made you think this way? [/FONT][/COLOR]Why did you lose your interest in first place?

You see there are two ideas of what is Afghanistan.

There is the “official” idea of Afghanistan which is spoon fed to all (non-Pashtun) kids. The idea that we are all Muslims and Afghans, who just happen to speak two different languages.

Then, there is the underground idea of Afghanistan which is just beneath the surface. The one with Pashtun = Afghan, and Pashto = National Language, Pashtun = “older brother” lol etc.

Until I was 17-18, I was under the impression that Afghan Muslim is my primary identity and Afghanistan is mine. I wasn’t necessarily historically or politically naive (for a teenager) but I guess I was just unintentionally brainwashed by my parents into having a very simplistic view of my country and identity (apparently for my own good since nationalism is a waste of time).


A few years later now, knowing what I do now about Afghanistan’s history, reading what I have read about its history, reading the raw opinions of Pashtuns, seeing everything I have read play out in the political arena as recently as this parliamentary elections, going to Afghanistan and seeing the inconsistencies, putting all the pieces together and seeing Afghanistan for what it is... I would have to be an idiot of the highest proportion to think I’m an Afghan.

I think it’s no longer inteluctually possible for me to reconcile my ethnicity with my nationality. For me to be an Afghan, I will have to demote and subordinate my history, my language, my right to my land, my ethnicity, all this to the “big brother” Pashtuns. I love my history, language, land way toooooo much to do that.

[Khidr]

[/FONT][/COLOR][/B]What about other ethnics in the country? Do you seriously believe if you form a country along with Uzbeks and Hazaras you will get along politically? If yes then why and how? Don't forget that's not all Pukhtoon-Tajik only.

The issue is not the fact that people must get along politically. Political differences and squabbles are inevitable. The issue is having a country where fundamental questions in regards to the country's identity, history, culture, political organization are agreed upon. I don’t want to get into too much details, but I talked extensively to young Hazara and Uzbek students during my visit to Afghanistan. I think there is a general consensus amongst Tajiks, Hazaras, and Uzbek nationalists for laying the initial foundations for an eventual partition and creation of a federal and decentralized state of Khurasan.

This is exactly what Pukhtoons believe in as well; That for the sake of Islam our fore-fathers lost their language and culture to Dari and Tajiks.

Sister, how was it the Tajiks fault? That Pashtuns were given fertile lands of Tajiks in the north, and in the process due to them living in Farsi-speaking areas, they forget to speak Pashto and today speak Farsi? LOL

When I talked about for the sake of Islam, I was actually talking about our Tajik ancestors who made political alliances with Pashtuns. Hence this Afghanistan is their legacy to us. A legacy that I don't think I want to pass to my children and grand-children.

as far as I have always known Afghanistan, Tajiks have always been way less religious than Pukhtoons

LOL That is actually quite an insult, but I’m glad that one’s obedience to their religious obligations and piety will not be determined by a Pashtun generalization that “Tajiks are way less religious than Pashtuns”.


Kabulis are not representative of the broader Tajiks. Furthermore the most liberal Kabulis were in fact Mohmadzayees and other migrants to Kabul.

If by “way less religious” you mean practicing the Pashtunwali that the Taliban enforced calling it Islam, then I agree...yes we are proudly “way less” religious and we certainly don’t need a village Mullah from Marjah to teach us about “Islam”.

Mate, Pukhtoons are majority in Afghanistan. Yes, not a huge majority maybe but they still are majority. Don't forget that at least a million of us (and I am not exaggerating at all) have lost their culture and language by moving to Northern areas and adapted Dari. The stream for such Pukhtoons in incredibly huge, imagine what our exact numbers would have been if we wouldn't have lost oru culture and language in first place.

This majority/minority argument and this idea of victim mentality by the same people who took over forcefully the most fertile lands of the north but are now complaining how they forget their “culture” due to the Tajiks is precisely why I’m beginning to think this Afghan unity concept is a waste of time.

FYI, sister if you actually do go to Qundoz, and a few districts of Baghlan, you will see these Pashtuns still live a very Pashtun life who speak Pashto amongst themselves and have an accent when speaking Farsi. They are not reading Mawlana’s Masnavi or playing Buzkashi or celebrating Nawrooz.
Okay, that's enough I'm geting a headache

[sayer]

its funny how naive you are shadow. You are skipping facts. the tajiks didnt beat any pashtuns in any battle. During Ahmad Shah babas time the pashtuns captured and enslaved northern afghans (tajiks persians hazaras uzbeks) if you were good fighters you should have defended urselves against ahmad shah baba.

Mirwais hotaki captured the persian empire (isfahan) took all the royal women to kandahar, and ruled the persian empire for 8 years. this is another example of pashtuns destroying persians(tajiks)

The taliban took kabul from masood(tajik) masood ran away from kabul, didnt even dare to fight the taliban. if he was concerned about not destroying kabul he shouldnt have fought hekmatyar there. Truth is he ran away like a coward from kabul. Then taliban even took shomali plains from him. and the taliban were at the doorsteps of panjsher before they were removed by americans. but reality is it was only weeks left before taliban would have entered pansher and entered pashtun genetics in panjsheri women.

pashtuns also defeated and jailed ismail khan (tajik) and they also captured mazar.

So in history pashtuns have always defeated tajiks. so dont live in a dream world where u believe u tajiks have a chance against pashtuns in war. Pashtuns have a warlike culture and tajiks dont. Thats why pashtuns will beat tajik in every battlefield.

PS even look today the biggest and most feared gangsters of kabul city today are pashtuns even though the tajiks came with the help of americans. And teh best fighter from afghansitan in mixed martial arts is Siyar Bahadurzada, a pashtun. War and fighting is in the blood of pashtuns. not tajiks.

[ScimitarXEdge]

This is getting extremely childish.

We're all Brothers, Tajiks and Pashtoons, don't let dividers get in the way.

This is why People like MazloomYar and Toramana want Ethnic Nationalism; they want to make us kill each other; even in other threads they will try to stir hatred between Pashtoon tribes like Waziris and Khattaks. They hate everyone, Pashtoon and Tajik alike, don't fall for the trap.

[Shayesta]

There is the “official” idea of Afghanistan which is spoon fed to all non-Pashtun kids.

What do you mean with 'official' idea? Idea spread by Pukhtoons? And how are only non-Pukhtoons spoon-fed by it?

The idea that we are all Muslims and Afghans, who just happen to speak two different languages.

Non-Pukhtoons don't exist of Tajiks only, we got many other ethnics with many other languages being spoken as well.

Until I was 17-18, I was under the impression that Afghan Muslim is my primary identity and Afghanistan is mine.

I had the same idea till about when I was seventeen, after that age I became a hardcore-Pukhtana nationalist and very anti non-Pukhtoons. Now, as I passed my teenage years, I can luckily say that I am the old Shayesta again; An Afghan nationalist. And that also after my visit to Afghanistan.

I wasn’t necessarily historically or politically naive for a teenager but I guess I was just unintentionally brainwashed by my parents into having a very simplistic view of my country and identity.

Why brainwashed? If your parents can accept the identity which you consider as alien, then why not you? What's the benefit your parents (those who survived all those wars) see in this country called Afghanistan which you don't?

A few years later now, knowing what I do now about Afghanistan’s history, reading what I have read about its history, reading the raw opinions of Pashtuns,

What about the opinions of Tajiks? Is it only opinions of Pukhtoons which is harming the country?

putting all the pieces together and seeing Afghanistan for what it is... I would have to be an idiot of the highest proportion to think I’m an Afghan.

There is one thing you still don't realize and one piece you forgot to put add to the puzzle; This Afghanistan is not the Afghanistan prior Afghan-Russian war. Today, Tajiks are at least at the same positions as Pukhtoons, demands of Uzbek's day by day are being fulfilled and those people whom we (very unfortunately) enslaved for over a century are in the parliament as well; Hazaras. Afghanistan is not entirely under Pukhtoon hands any more and if I have to believe the changes, no non-Pukhtoon will allow it to happen in the future as long as their 'homes' are concerned. If, according to yourself, you gave us many chances to unify during the period we kept 'oppressing' you, then why not today where you stand pretty much on your own feet? Slowly, but surely, even you are getting your wishes fulfilled and got your presence in pretty much every single sector; Why don't you try this Afghanistan out, and then decide what's best and what's not?

For me to be an Afghan, I will have to demote and subordinate my history, my language, my right to my land, my ethnicity, all this to the “big brother” Pashtuns.

No one forced you to forget your language, ethnicy or culture because despite of being in Afghanistan for centuries, your culture is still as strong and so is your language. Your 'big brothers' can't afford to play the same masters as they used to all those centuries any more, today you got most of the support you need to ensure your land for future invasions; Even if that's by Pukhtoons. Except for the term 'Afghaan', there is nothing else Pukhtoon about Tajiks in Afghanistan and you can prove me wrong with your arguments.

I love my history, language, land way toooooo much to do that.

What about your history since 1747? What does that mean to you? It's not that Baba (Ahmad Shah Abdali) came and forced Tajiks to fight along him for Afghanistan, no. You and even other ethnics joined his army and fought for this land, on which you are still residing. You could very well make the same mistake again by accepting Uzbek and Hazara hands for Khorasan, nonetheless, nothing guarantees you won't complain about them the same way you did about Pukhtoons; Not even your conversation with Hazara and Uzbek students. At a point even Pukhtoons and Tajiks were all over each other, but what happened?

I think there is a general consensus amongst Tajiks, Hazaras, and Uzbek nationalists for laying the initial foundations for an eventual partition and creation of a federal and decentralized state of Khurasan.

Based on what do you think they put such agreements? Against Pukhtoons, right? But you forgot that these were very same Hazaras and Uzbeks who were sucking Tajik blood as much as Pukhtoons were during Mujahideen era, and Tajiks by the way weren't any less hostile towards them either. Uzbeks in North are apparently having issues with Tajiks in Balkh and they even namethe areas they live in as 'Turkistan', nor does any Uzbek politician encourage any of it's men to fight for independence. In fact, after Dostum-Karzai alliance, I am rather shocked with the friendly-like behaviour of many Uzbek nationalists towards Pukhtoons. Hazaras ain't any less by the way. Many of the arguments fuelled between Pukhtoons and Tajiks (especially online) is said to be done by Hazaras. Even the person they consider to be their only hope, Bashardost, is everything but anti-Afghanistan. They are the ones who are possibly even more concerned with politics than Pukhtoons, but the difference is that they oust their opinion by hiding under Tajik veil. Dunno whether you have noticed the same or not. I had my Tajik relatives visiting Bamyan where Hazaras constantly reminded them not to act tough on Hazaras in their own land, 'Hazarajat'. Same treatment is said to be received in Jaghouri, except for some areas in Ghazni where marriages between Pukhtoons-Hazaras and Tajiks-Hazaras is said to be taking place. Hazaras had it from every single ethnic in the past, not just Pukhtoons.

Sister, how was it the Tajiks fault?

That wasn't my point. You blamed Pukhtoons for sweet-talking your forefathers in name of Islam because of which they fought for Afghanistan, while Pukhtoons despite of ruling the nation never made Pukhto important enough. Not even in the capital of Kabul. Just like how you blame Pukhtoons for patriotism of your forefathers regarding Afghanistan, same-wise Pukhtoons also make the mistake of blaming Tajiks of being unthankful since Pukhtoons even 'sacrificied' their culture and language for Tajiks, yet Tajiks accuse them of trying to Pukhtunize the nation. To you your point of view makes sense, to them their make sense; Literally only difference there.

When I talked about for the sake of Islam, I was actually talking about our Tajik ancestors who made political alliances with Pashtuns. Hence this Afghanistan is their legacy to us. A legacy that I don't think I want to pass to my children and grand-children.

Why not? If you love your history then I am guessing you will love every single aspect of your forefathers, you can't just pick-and-choose and throw your history with Afghanistan out of your life, can ya?

That is actually quite an insult,

It's not meant to be an insult, it's something my parents and grand-parents (even though both my grand-mothers are Tajiks) have observed in Afghanistan and Pakistan in their 'era', and something I observed in Afghanistan, Pakistan, USA, UK, Canada, Holland and Germany in this 'era'. Especially some Tajik women claim that in Islam women don't have to wear Hijaab as long as they are 'clean by heart', and men claiming in Islam praying five times doesn't have to be a priority as long as you are 'clean by heart'. But facts are so that as a Muslim woman you must be covered from top to toe, and as a Muslims you must pray. There are too many aspects I can't go on about right now or I won't finish till tomorrow, but I definitely did not mean it as an insult. Even we Pukhtoons got a lot of things going on which might sound as an insult to us if someone else points it out, but nonetheless will it remain a fact.

Kabulis are not representative of the broader Tajiks. Furthermore the most liberal Kabulis were in fact Mohmadzayees and other migrants to Kabul.

Kabul is only an example. I have known those so-called 'original Kabulis' (not Pukhtoons) who look down upon women being totally covered, or wearing Hijaab, or not communicating with men, and what not. I won't even start about the stories my mother shared when she was younger, and in Kabul. Though, literally only Tajiks I have seen so far who do not ridicule whatever aspect of Islam and do not look down on anyone dressing as covered as they want to, are Panjsheris. That's the reason despite of Panjsheris being known as the anti-Pukhtoon people, I still get along with many of them because of many of their similarities with Pukhtoons.

If by “way less religious” you mean practicing the Pashtunwali that the Taliban enforced calling it Islam, then I agree.

Taliban wasn't in Kabul before the wars. Nonetheless, if I am being too judgemental according to you, then maybe strictness (in Pukhtoons) was the word I was looking for and nor necessarily Islam.......?

This majority/minority argument and this idea of victim mentality by the same people who took over forcefully the most fertile lands of the north but are now complaining how they forget their “culture” due to the Tajiks is precisely why I’m beginning to think this Afghan unity concept is a waste of time.

Tajiks haven't got too much different mentality either when it comes to being in a sorry state. Moreover, being majority or a minority is a fact which doesn't mean one should break away as a nation simply because they can't agree on a fact! Losing culture isn't even the main problem in Afghanistan, political fights are. Tajik hardcore-nationalists believe Pukhtoons are in inhuman because we forced literally everything upon you in North, while Pukhtoon hardcore-nationalists believe that Tajiks are inhuman for joining Pakistan to destroy Daud Khan-regime so no Pakhtunkhwa is added to Afghanistan and therefore Pukhtoon unity is prevented. But both don't realize that Tajiks fought as much for this land as Pukhtoons did, and there were as many Pukhtoons joining Pakistan to destroy Daud Khan as were Tajiks.

FYI, sister if you actually do go to Qundoz, and a few districts of Baghlan, you will see these Pashtuns still live a very Pashtun life who speak Pashto amongst themselves and have an accent when speaking Farsi.

Many of them don't live in Kunduz for too long. A friend of mine was from Kunduz and if I am not mistaken then they went from Kandahar to Kunduz is ridiculously huge numbers mainly right before Afghan-Russian war, and the lands captured by them became a huge Pukhtoon majority as residents. And even today Pukhtoons keep searching for jobs where many landed in Kunduz and Baghlan and as I said before, this isn't the Afghanistan as it once used to be. Many, many things have changed and so have Pukhtoons started to appreciate their language and maintain it at the same time.

Though, my point is not to trap you into Afghan-unity view I personally share, my point is to make you understand the past and present completely before coming to a point. Now you might say you already have understood it all but since I see you keep blaming Pukhtoons for every single wind, I doubt you have. Try to find out what led to all those incidents and whether you, as a Tajik from Afghanistan, know how it could be prevented in the future? Infact, could it be prevented in the future? And what have you given Afghanistan and especially your Tajiks in order to make a huge demand such as partition, while you and I know both know how many lives at least we are gonna lose? Again? All of us have made mistakes, and all of us first of all should learn to point out our own mistakes before blaming someone else and if I have to be honest, I am missing this last particular point in your arguments.

[Shayesta]

During Ahmad Shah babas time the pashtuns captured and enslaved northern afghans if you were good fighters you should have defended urselves against ahmad shah baba.

Even funnier than that is that Tajiks themselves joined Baba's army to fight for an independent country.

Mirwais hotaki captured the persian empire took all the royal women to kandahar,

And that's something to be proud of?

but reality is it was only weeks left before taliban would have entered pansher and entered pashtun genetics in panjsheri women.

How much of our genetics were left in provinces like Balkh and Herat that you reached to Panjsher by now?

pashtuns also defeated and jailed ismail khan (tajik) and they also captured mazar.

Then what happened? Pukhtoons got killed, raped and looted in Mazar which made them seek refuge in Herat under this very same Ismael Khan?

even look today the biggest and most feared gangsters of kabul city today are pashtuns.

LOL, Kabul got gangsters!?

And teh best fighter from afghansitan in mixed martial arts is Siyar Bahadurzada, a pashtun.

His biography doesn't mention his ethnic and even he refuses to disclose his ethnic.

War and fighting is in the blood of pashtuns.

Unfortunately, it is.