Afghan nationalism vs Pashtun nationalism

[Nick]

Fish,
As long as you consider yourself to be a proud Pashtun no one has the right to label you as a Farsiwan. Its the blood that matters. You have the Pashtun blood in you.

I am from Kandahar, we have thousands of Tajiks and Hazaras who speak only Pashto only. and Dari to these Tajiks and Hazaras is almost like a foreign language would you consider them as a Pashtun? But when we have someone without our own blood we think twice?

Dear Nazia I am afraid you are not correct on this on as well just as you initially assumed that Pashtu belongs to Iran, this "Iran" word really gets into my gutts. I don't know how you came to such conclusion but anyways. Regarding Pashtun blood. There is no Pashtun blood, that is the whole point, which Is why I decline to usage of PAshtun over Afghan root, and your claim would also add into Taramona's idea that just hindkos, punjabis and mahajurs/hazaras speaking Pashtu would become Pashtun, and at the same time assumes that 75% of Pakhtunikhwa is non-Pashtun LOL which means only 25% are Afghan well that's how I see it, isn't that part of this whole confusion. I am almost sick and tried of explaining to people that Pashtun=Afghan therefore don't make another mistake of creating another identity for Pashtuns simply because 25% or 30% of Afghanistan's non-afghan population also call themselves Afghan, doesn't mean you reject the usage of Afghan which your 5000 years old forefathers have used Ok maybe not 5000 years but at least 4000 years.

In fact PAshtuns should be proud, that non-Pashtuns call themselves Afghan, and yet many brothers specaly from Pakistan under influence of Pakistan, assume that they will loss their roots or if their identity have been stolen. LOL Its not about your identity but rather about your history and land which on one side Iran has stolen history and now Pakistan trying Land first and share history with Iran under banner of hindus valley with supported ideology of Iranism and Hinduism, and that Afghan culture formed from two cultures Persian and Hindus. Seriously you people should be proud look at English they had to rule 300 years to make India as English as possible, and now Englands stand proud with her head in the sky that world's largest country is now english dominated, and same with other empires who tried their best in the past.

Here we have some lingumastics who assume their Language is language of God or some Paradise may God forgive me for saying this but I had those who say ok only one Qwam is Afghan who is Pashtu speakers only. This is a slap to millions and millions of other Afghan tribe, and sub tribes who speak Dari. I can bring dozen of examples of these tribes and I have in the past despite all people create for themselves one confusion after another. Since when did we have Persian Blood? Or Pashtun Blood or Urduzuban Blood or Farsiwan Blood? blood in tongue. I am sorry dear Nazia I am not attacking you but also other bothers who gets into my Gutts and assumes people would just set back and enjoy their rubbish of how powerful Pashtu is or who this and that and how they consider us lost and assume that Farah and Herat is Irani influence etc etc. Cut the crap you guys have been way too much polarized by western Media to attack us in such rubbish and uncivilized comments.

By all means Allah knows I have more respect for Pashtu language then anyone in here, all of my years I have support a language that I don't even understand. Why? For what? this is what some brothers in here have to think about. What do I have in connection with this language called Pashtu? Indeed a deep respect, Farsiwans are not lost, we know who we are, so don't assume that you speak PAshtu and you are the Only Afghan blood. Where was Pashtu 700 years ago? Indeed you don't know, but I do, and my love to this language has lead me to say Pashtu=Afghan=Native, but not in the sense that you people speak Pashtu and abuse my mother tongue. I take pride for Dari and I like any Pashtu would love Dari to be a national recognized language, until I am alive, when I die if my children happens to grow up as pashtu speakers then be it they will announce their mother tongue as Pashtu and take pride from being Pashtun.


I am Afghan nationalist, with all respect to Pashtu language but I will never allow a narrow minded Pashtun Nationalist to take over me or us in general.

Dari to these Tajiks and Hazaras is almost like a foreign language would you consider them as a Pashtun

You have one of unique claims that there are Tajikistanis in Kandahar maybe they are but your ironic claim that Dari is foreign to them? well since Dari is close to Tajiki I don't think you will go that far as to claim it "foreign to them". And as for Hazaras LOL I am not surprised since Kandahar does has Deykhondi HAzaras but needless to say they fully speak their language as well just as hindkos speak Hindko at home and Pashtu outside their homes. Perhaps linguistically they are Afghan, but racially Hazaras=Mongolian and Turkic=Tajiks, so yeah they are non-Afghan by root.


BTW Dear Nazia many of my comments does not reply to you. I am using your comments to run my show. LOL please don't be upset, I have deep respect for you sister.

[Nick]

For those who assume this war is between me and sister Nazia is not true. But Rather a major opposition. I would like to welcome you guys and sorry for my outburst, but if it seems a little touchy forgive me, and lets start a discussion which many members ignored for some time, and bashed each other indirectly. I would like to welcome those who view the the idea of Pashtun=Afghan vs those who thinks Pashtun vs Afghan. May God forbids it never happened in reality, but it seem it does happens in the Cyber world. Despite I have ignored abuse many many times, and many of you have been witness to this, but I just can't take it anymore. People directly or indirectly abuse our language and us Farsiwans altogether.

I would like to welcome those who agree with me as well.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Afghan Nationalism is a joke. The main protagonist of Afghan Nationalism on PF was calling people all sorts of nasty things ans used profanity against others.

So typical of Nationalists.

[Feroza_Banu]

Nick,

Salam,

i need a really good book to study the history of afghanistan/pashtoons and the people of afghanistan as a whole.

Can you please give me references (names) for some reliable history books.
I really appreciate it.

Please don't ignore my request.

[afghan]

Afghan=pashtun, so as afghan nationalism= pashtun nationalism, it will be a joke if one claim that pashtun nationlism started with the creation of panjbistan. there is no doubts that pashtunkhwah has remained a birth place of afghan nationalism = pshtun nationalism. we pashtun have no issues calling ourselves afghans because we are afghans. but non-pashtun of afghanistan were called afghn in late 50s, the term afghan was not apreciated by non afghans, like hazara thought it ws an end to their identity. they still consider the word afghan was imposed upon them. i agree upon with my hazara brotehrs on most of the issues. it was simlar situation when Georgian would forcefully change the last name of assetian to georgian one for the purpose of demographic numbers. the 15th century it was Sheikh Mali who divided the occupied land only among afghans(pashtuns), the mullas and other saints the land was given in donation. then in 17th century it was khushal khan khattak who raised the flag of afghan nationalism, fought against mughals.

[ijaz yousafzai]

It is like flushing out the rat out of its hole. They say, "the cat is out of the bag". Farsibans do get annoyed and they ultimately come in their true color. Afghan nationalism= Pakhtun nationalism and it is not Pakhtun nationalism VS Afghan nationalism, if the terms are used in true historical meaning. We are not bashing any one but we want to protect our rights.

Da chaa haq na khoram Ijaza khpal ba hum chaa ta war na kram
Ta pa shaal abas shakee shwe za kho khpala sharai ghwaram

[Fish]

Dear Forumers,

I agree with both and Nick to some point not fully.

I've read some of the comments posted by the members on this forum, it's very disappointing, but everyone is entitled to their beliefs.

I like Nick stand for Afghan Nationalism, I am against Pashtun Nationalism since no country exists with pure ethnicity. Even Tajikistan and Uzbekistan have large population of Russians, Uzbeks and Turkmens, but the Tajik population is incorrectly put at around 80%.

Afghanistan's current boundary has existed for more than 200 years and majority of the Afghans have become mixed. Today the term "Afghan" does not stand only for Pashtuns, but it includes other ethnic groups as well.

Many people on this forum might hate me for the comment, I will make, but it's the truth and I can't lie to feel wanted here.

It's time that every ethnic group in Afghanistan accept eachother as one and help rebuilt their country. Afghanistan has been suffering for too long for for Pashtunistan and other prides. If Pashtuns across the Durand line are willing to join their mother land and their brothers in the North who are Tajiks,Hazaras, Uzbeks, and etc than I will accept them with open arms.

If they only wish to have a seperate Pashtunistan and carve out Afghanistan than I as an Afghan will never accept this concept.

Many might not agree with me because they might see me only as a non-Pashtun because, I can't speak Pashtu but there are many Pashtuns who have the same believe as me.

Honestly, if I ever become the leader of Afghanistan my first task will be the eliminate the names of Pashtun,Tajik,Hazara,Uzbek and etc and only have them all call themselves AFGHAN. Aside from that, I will eliminate tribalism in Pashtun areas. Tribalism has forced Pashtuns to become enemies of Pashtuns. Different tribes are fighting against eachother daily over land and area.

Honestly if all these tribes forget their tribal affliates and see themselves only as AFGHAN or PASHTUN imagine how powerful they can become and how much power they can control?

All those areas in the south and other Pashtun areas can be rebuilt and people can educate their kids in Pashtu language and work towards brighter future.

Today different Pashtun Tribes are being used against eachother for different powers if they were one and the country was one non of this could be possible.

My intention is not to insult anyone, if I am wrong please correct me and lets enjoy the debate.

[khyaal]

It is like flushing out the rat out of its hole. They say, "the cat is out of the bag". Farsibans do get annoyed and they ultimately come in their true color. Afghan nationalism= Pakhtun nationalism and it is not Pakhtun nationalism VS Afghan nationalism, if the terms are used in true historical meaning. We are not bashing any one but we want to protect our rights.

Da chaa haq na khoram Ijaza khpal ba hum chaa ta war na kram
Ta pa shaal abas shakee shwe za kho khpala sharai ghwaram

@Nick. Thanks for your enlightening writings.

One thing is very intriguing and beyond comprehension when a Pashtun from Lar Pakhtunkhwa starts complaining about war torn Afghanistan. It is either an obvious symptom of extreme self-indulgence or a crooked way of diverting attention from the main issue of Punjab's blatant hegemony, where in Pakistan we have been deprived of our very own history, we are taught Indo-Punjab's history where fake Punjabi heroes are presented to us as our heroes and ancestors and our own great elders have been turned into villains.

Urdu has strictly been imposed on us which has replaced our mother tongue Pashto, school children are penalized for speaking Pashto, and all official correspondence is allowed only in Urdu/English. You will never see any signboard, news paper, text book, dedicated tv, radio channels in Pashto. Our mother tongue has been reduced to a language of untouchables in Lar Pakhtunkhwa.

Our precious land resources are being used for the industries of Punjab, our water resources irrigates Punjab and Sindh's farm fields, while our own farmers always pray for rains to irrigate their barren lands, due to which we have been made totally dependent on Punjab. Except for a few Punjab co-opted Pathans majority of our population has been turned into cheap laborers or menial job workers like Chowkidars, shoe-shiners, truck and bus drivers or Chaprasis, khasadars etc. This false issue of Pashtun vs afghans means nothing but to pit brother against brothers in order to advance Punjab/Pakistan's hegemonic agenda.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

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[Fahd]

sorry if thats will heart u
But that theard the 5 i think in 2 week talk about same thing
It make me crazy
Ppl here dont understand
Before i come here i was more pashton than any pashton but now i understand and feel it why we have prob in afg becus of u all think pashton r the greatest (we r) im now afg more than pashton (i dont think so i say that bcus of u)

[khyaal]

Fish, do you accept the boundaries bestowed upon you by Soviet Russia and the British Empire? Seems hollow to me to adhere to those boundaries.

I believe in Pashtun nationalism. A state in which more than 90% of the population is represented by Pashtuns, whether it's Loy Afghanistan (Pashtunkhwa rejoining Afghanistan) or Pashtunistan (all Pashtuns becoming independent) is the ultimate destiny of Pashtuns. Pashtuns with different ideas come in the way.

Some want to stick to their fellow Muslim Hindustanis and Punjabis (Islamic unity) while others want to group-hug their Central Asian nomadic cousins (Pan Central-Asian-ism?). If I want multiculturalism, I'll put on a kilt, a Hawaiin fruit-hat and move to San Francisco and marry Allejandaro. But I don't want that. I want a state that purely and solely works for the interests of Pashtuns. It's okay if 10% of the people in that state are Turk or Irani (Tajik or Persian-speaking), but not more than that. Pakistaniyat and such Afghanistaniyat are riddled with poverty.

But zalmiya! Ten percent is too much I won't agree, I could tolerate only .000001 percent and they too should be kept in the zoo.

Another thing, I can only understand my own dialect, too soft and too harsh accents get me headache.

[pukhtana]

Fish, do you accept the boundaries bestowed upon you by Soviet Russia and the British Empire? Seems hollow to me to adhere to those boundaries.

I believe in Pashtun nationalism. A state in which more than 90% of the population is represented by Pashtuns, whether it's Loy Afghanistan (Pashtunkhwa rejoining Afghanistan) or Pashtunistan (all Pashtuns becoming independent) is the ultimate destiny of Pashtuns. Pashtuns with different ideas come in the way.

Some want to stick to their fellow Muslim Hindustanis and Punjabis (Islamic unity) while others want to group-hug their Central Asian nomadic cousins (Pan Central-Asian-ism?). If I want multiculturalism,an I'll put on a kilt, a Hawaiin fruit-hat and move to San Francisco and marry Allejandaro. But I don't want that. I want a state that purely and solely works for the interests of Pashtuns. It's okay if 10% of the people in that state are Turk or Irani (Tajik or Persian-speaking), but not more than that. Pakistaniyat and such Afghanistaniyat are riddled with poverty.

And what about the Pashtuns that cant speak Dari?what do we do with them?

[cyrus]

Ok, first of all we are Muslims, being Muslim is more important ten being afghan. if we were a good Muslim, one who really knew his religion he would not be a nationalist. Our prophet came to remove this disease amongst the people. Look at our country, look at our people, look at our condition, but still we are proud of a disease which enemies of Afghans installed in us which was nationalism. Wake up brothers and sisters.

Now, recently i keep hearing from our pashtun brethren that say oh tajiks are foreigners in Afghanistan, so are Uzbeks, etc. only if we knew the history that, the name of afghanistan is new, and before we used to be called khorasan and those cities like maymanah, like mazar, herat etc were the lands of those people who spoke Uzbek or Farsi, they never came from other countries, rather when Afghanistan was named these people become under these borders that's all.

[MazloomYarMasud]

Ok, first of all we are Muslims, being Muslim is more important ten being afghan. if we were a good Muslim, one who really knew his religion he would not be a nationalist. Our prophet came to remove this disease amongst the people. Look at our country, look at our people, look at our condition, but still we are proud of a disease which enemies of Afghans installed in us which was nationalism. Wake up brothers and sisters.

Now, recently i keep hearing from our pashtun brethren that say oh tajiks are foreigners in Afghanistan, so are Uzbeks, etc. only if we knew the history that, the name of afghanistan is new, and before we used to be called khorasan and those cities like maymanah, like mazar, herat etc were the lands of those people who spoke Uzbek or Farsi, they never came from other countries, rather when Afghanistan was named these people become under these borders that's all.

Why cant we be first Afghans and then everything else? What is so wrong in being proud of ones country and nation. If your excuse is that proudness generates hatred to others but I am afraid to say Religionous violence between Afghans is very much common and not a closed secret. So what is the solution then?

[Alchemist]

Fish, do you accept the boundaries bestowed upon you by Soviet Russia and the British Empire? Seems hollow to me to adhere to those boundaries.

I believe in Pashtun nationalism. A state in which more than 90% of the population is represented by Pashtuns, whether it's Loy Afghanistan (Pashtunkhwa rejoining Afghanistan) or Pashtunistan (all Pashtuns becoming independent) is the ultimate destiny of Pashtuns. Pashtuns with different ideas come in the way.

Some want to stick to their fellow Muslim Hindustanis and Punjabis (Islamic unity) while others want to group-hug their Central Asian nomadic cousins (Pan Central-Asian-ism?). If I want multiculturalism, I'll put on a kilt, a Hawaiin fruit-hat and move to San Francisco and marry Allejandaro. But I don't want that. I want a state that purely and solely works for the interests of Pashtuns. It's okay if 10% of the people in that state are Turk or Irani (Tajik or Persian-speaking), but not more than that. Pakistaniyat and such Afghanistaniyat are riddled with poverty.

Ah, Fascism...so modest in it's appeal.