what would justify hitting a woman...

[*Mahzala*]

I can't help but conclude that some of the replies are very irrational and emotionally based. But I also understand that we're all different, our upbringing, the challenges we've faced as individuals, as families, they're all different. And it's those factors that contribute to a decision like this (some hav raised the divorce issue). My friend often (in almost every conversation) asks me on which condition I would get a divorce from my (future) partner. My answer is always the same: never, divorce is not even the last option for me. I like to say the word divorce is not part of my vocabulary. Yes, I am aware that Islam has given us women a lot of rights, however, those rights are not there to be abused. My reasons for her answer are that I am a firm believer in what I call the 'a woman can either make it or break it' part to any relationship. Of course, his nature is an exception to this. I am not suggesting that one should go into marriage with a goal to change her husbands ways, because, not only is it really difficult, it is impossible (or so I think). But out of concern, she often asks, well Mesbah what if he hit you? Or cheated on you? Or drank alcohol? Divorcing my partner for either of those reasons would say more as a person about me than about his wrong ways. When one experiences every end of the line in terms of life's trials, then a husband hitting you should be the last of your concerns, because, having lived life that way, you should, from learning from the lives of those around you, be able to make better informed decisions. Yes we learn from our own mistakes and experiences, but you don't always need to make the mistake yourself to learn from it. I am not talking for those countless homeless women who have resorted to other means to resolve problems in their marriage. I am referring to women who are not married and go into marriage with these set of ideals and principles. And Ifind that part of a very dangerous process which undoubtedly has bitter ends. Moving on ...

Hitting a woman is a man's weakness. Nothing more, nothing less. I find it inhumane and if I may say, animalistic (Hadeeth). As for a husband and wife relationship, I believe things should never get so bitter that the male resorts to raising his hand on his wife. Yes, external pressure and problems often get the better of us, in any relationship, but I believe problems should be resolved through other means rather than making your wife subject to your rage. Like Sangar said, it doesn't solve anything, rather it creates more problems, grudges, emotional instability and to an extent, insecurity too. If a husband makes it a habit, then the two are living their lives on the edge of a knife, and that is not what a marriage should be like. The husband/wife relationship is as strong (and weak and sensitive) as the verse explained in the Quran where Allah says we are like garments for each other. Undoubtedly, Allah is the source of tender love between spouses (Surah Rum), but the understanding that a coupe builds should be the strongest ostacle in the way of these (external) forces. And, needless to say, it is vital. Point is: I believe in prevention, rather than cure.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Nothing justifies hitting a woman. nothing.

'Disobedience' justifies it. It's what God has decreed.

[Roshina]

'Disobedience' justifies it. It's what God has decreed.

Evidence?

[Michin Khel]

I can't help but conclude that some of the replies are very irrational and emotionally based. But I also understand that we're all different, our upbringing, the challenges we've faced as individuals, as families, they're all different. And it's those factors that contribute to a decision like this (some hav raised the divorce issue). My friend often (in almost every conversation) asks me on which condition I would get a divorce from my (future) partner. My answer is always the same: never, divorce is not even the last option for me. I like to say the word divorce is not part of my vocabulary. Yes, I am aware that Islam has given us women a lot of rights, however, those rights are not there to be abused. My reasons for her answer are that I am a firm believer in what I call the 'a woman can either make it or break it' part to any relationship. Of course, his nature is an exception to this. I am not suggesting that one should go into marriage with a goal to change her husbands ways, because, not only is it really difficult, it is impossible (or so I think). But out of concern, she often asks, well Mesbah what if he hit you? Or cheated on you? Or drank alcohol? Divorcing my partner for either of those reasons would say more as a person about me than about his wrong ways. When one experiences every end of the line in terms of life's trials, then a husband hitting you should be the last of your concerns, because, having lived life that way, you should, from learning from the lives of those around you, be able to make better informed decisions. Yes we learn from our own mistakes and experiences, but you don't always need to make the mistake yourself to learn from it. I am not talking for those countless homeless women who have resorted to other means to resolve problems in their marriage. I am referring to women who are not married and go into marriage with these set of ideals and principles. And Ifind that part of a very dangerous process which undoubtedly has bitter ends. Moving on ...

Hitting a woman is a man's weakness. Nothing more, nothing less. I find it inhumane and if I may say, animalistic (Hadeeth). As for a husband and wife relationship, I believe things should never get so bitter that the male resorts to raising his hand on his wife. Yes, external pressure and problems often get the better of us, in any relationship, but I believe problems should be resolved through other means rather than making your wife subject to your rage. Like Sangar said, it doesn't solve anything, rather it creates more problems, grudges, emotional instability and to an extent, insecurity too. If a husband makes it a habit, then the two are living their lives on the edge of a knife, and that is not what a marriage should be like. The husband/wife relationship is as strong (and weak and sensitive) as the verse explained in the Quran where Allah says we are like garments for each other. Undoubtedly, Allah is the source of tender love between spouses (Surah Rum), but the understanding that a coupe builds should be the strongest ostacle in the way of these (external) forces. And, needless to say, it is vital. Point is: I believe in prevention, rather than cure.

Mashallah

[Roshina]

Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme. 4:34

Iyas Dhubab reported the apostle of Allah as saying: "Do not beat Allah's handmaidens", but when Umar came to the apostle of Allah and said: "Women have become emboldened towards their husbands", he (the prophet), gave permission to beat them. Then many women came round the family of the apostle of Allah complaining against their husbands. So the apostle of Allah said, "Many women have gone round Muhammad's family complaining against their husbands. They are not the best among you". Abu Dawud 2141

Umar reported the prophet as saying: "A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife". Abu Dawud 2142

Ash’ath b. Qais is reported to have said, "One night Umar arranged a feast. When it was midnight, he got up and went towards his wife to beat her. I separated them both. When he went to bed, he said to me, "O Ash’ath, preserve from me a thing that I heard from Allah’s messenger. (These things are): A man will not be taken to task for beating his wife (for valid reasons) and do not sleep without observing witr prayer." I forgot the third. Ibn e Majah 1986

Thanks, Nadir Shah.

I was shocked that NO one in their response actually addressed this verse (Surah an-Nisa, 4:34), since it seems to allow men to hit their wives -- and not just IF they're disobedient but if the husbands *fear* that the women will be disobedient. So, the disobedience hasn't even happened it; it just has a chance of happening.

Of course, the matter doesn't end here, since this verse has many, many other interpretations as well, and Arabic terms like "nushooz" (supposedly "disobedience" when it comes to women!), "dharaba" (supposedly beating; some add "lightly" to it to make it seem like it's okay, but because it's always in parenthesis, you know it's the translator's own view and not actually from the original text), and "qawwam" (superior? have authority over? better than? supporters? maintainers? responsible for?) are still debated and questioned.

I don't believe this verse is as conclusive as we have made it. Still, as of yet, that's the translation most have accepted and agreed upon.

I have a blog post that lists the many different translations of this verse and how it has been an extremely difficult verse (THE most difficult verse, rather) to study. It has personally fascinated me for the past few years, and I'm willing to spend my entire lifetime to understand it, regardless of what assumptions and conclusions about it are already made.

Many will say that, no, no, it's only with a miswaak (basically "toothpaste") that you can beat your wife. But even then, why? What for? What will it accomplish? And a miswaak?!

Oh, and speaking of miswaak ... actually, it has been brought to my attention that the actual term "miswaak" in the hadiths doesn't refer to what today is miswaak; it also refers to cords ... Yeah.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Levanaye, I think you are quoting out of context.

The problem is that the Quran allows it. Unequivocally. If there were doubts regarding it, men wouldn't defend this atrocious crime by claiming that it's their God-given right.

Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

However, since religions are all man-made, there are always irregularities, inconsistencies and contradictions. The scholars would be quick to point out that wives should be treated with kindness, as done as by the prophet and the companions. At the same time though, they will know the existence of the aforementioned verse but in order to seem civilized in our modern times, they will give Sunnah preference over the Quran in this case.

If hitting one's wife was not allowed in Islam, it wouldn't take pages upon pages of articles to try and justify that claim. The arguments I've read on answering-christianity.com are all pretty flimsy, especially the one in which the meaning of the word "beat" is reinterpreted as "to leave". Of course, someone with blind faith would believe that in a second.

[Nadir Shah]

Thanks, Nadir Shah.

I was shocked that NO one in their response actually addressed this verse (Surah an-Nisa, 4:34), since it seems to allow men to hit their wives -- and not just IF they're disobedient but if the husbands *fear* that the women will be disobedient. So, the disobedience hasn't even happened it; it just has a chance of happening.

Of course, the matter doesn't end here, since this verse has many, many other interpretations as well, and Arabic terms like "nushooz" (supposedly "disobedience" when it comes to women!), "dharaba" (supposedly beating; some add "lightly" to it to make it seem like it's okay, but because it's always in parenthesis, you know it's the translator's own view and not actually from the original text), and "qawwam" (superior? have authority over? better than? supporters? maintainers? responsible for?) are still debated and questioned.

I don't believe this verse is as conclusive as we have made it. Still, as of yet, that's the translation most have accepted and agreed upon.

I have a blog post that lists the many different translations of this verse and how it has been an extremely difficult verse (THE most difficult verse, rather) to study. It has personally fascinated me for the past few years, and I'm willing to spend my entire lifetime to understand it, regardless of what assumptions and conclusions about it are already made.

Many will say that, no, no, it's only with a miswaak (basically "toothpaste") that you can beat your wife. But even then, why? What for? What will it accomplish? And a miswaak?!

Oh, and speaking of miswaak ... actually, it has been brought to my attention that the actual term "miswaak" in the hadiths doesn't refer to what today is miswaak; it also refers to cords ... Yeah.

You must have heard the Pashto phrase 'Parthug Jorhawal'. This point of different interpretations is all tomayto/tomahto stuff used by the apologists to diffuse the truth. Why can't we decide, unequivocally and knowing it to be just, that beating women is unlawful, once and for all? Why mire ourselves in all this terminolgy stuff?

[Roshina]

The scholars would be quick to point out that wives should be treated with kindness, as done as by the prophet and the companions. At the same time though, they will know the existence of the aforementioned verse but in order to seem civilized in our modern times, they will give Sunnah preference over the Quran in this case.

I've noticed this, too. In everything else, Quran rules; when it comes to beating wives, it's always: "The prophet never hit his wives! We need to take him as an example." Okay, but why deny that at least ten different existing interpretations of verse 4:34 of the Quran actually allow a husband to beat his wife if he so much as fears that she might disobey him?

[Roshina]

You must have heard the Pashto phrase 'Parthug Jorhawal'. This point of different interpretations is all tomayto/tomahto stuff used by the aplogists to diffuse the truth.

LOL! DM once said the same thing to me :p

Nope, I'm studying Arabic in order to get this stuff settled. Call it a waste of time, but it's just for me if nothing else.

It's interpretation -- everything is ultimately interpretation, you see.

Oh, and the good thing here is that in THIS case of wife-beating, your average Muslim isn't gonna say things like "it's a matter of interpretation and WHO is doing it"; she/he will just say, "The Prophet never beat his wives. Khalaas." So, no, it's not really an apologist view; don't you DARE consider me a Muslim apologist! I don't deny stuff like this, geez.

BUT! I must add that according to one commentary on this verse (I forget whose), this verse was revealed when:

A woman came to the Prophet saying, "My husband just beat me up. You're a prophet, so you need to do something about this. Ask God to respond to this somehow because I'm not gonna take this." The Prophet told her something like, "I'm sorry to hear. No, he's not allowed to beat you up."

BUT! Moments later, verse 4:34 was revealed, allowing husbands to beat their wives. So the Propeht went to the woman and said, "What I told you yesterday was wrong. I wish your husband wasn't allowed to beat you up, but if God says he is, then who am I to disagree with God?"

IF this is true, then this whole interpretation stuff will not work in this case, and women just have to live with the fact that their husbands are divinely permitted to beat them up, even though the Prophet didn't like it this way; God chose it so, and "there must be a reason."

But that's only if that makes sense to you.

[Nadir Shah]

I've noticed this, too. In everything else, Quran rules; when it comes to beating wives, it's always: "The prophet never hit his wives! We need to take him as an example." Okay, but why deny that at least ten different existing interpretations of verse 4:34 of the Quran actually allow a husband to beat his wife if he so much as fears that she might disobey him?

Mr Muslim, with his Hadith No 2127, would disagree.

When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'Aisha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?

[Roshina]

Islam is supposed to have granted women rights that were denied to them before in the 'Jahiliya' period, but we hear otherwise from a very reliable source.

Have you heard the new argument that "not all of Bukhari is saheeh"? That's what you're gonna get from some Muslims today when they hear of or read a hadith that either contradicts the Quran, is against women, is against another race or religion, or is juts downright irrational or nonsensical.

The hadiths you've given above are going to stimulate the exact same response: "Not all of Bukhari's or Dawud's or Muslim's hadiths are authentic." Yet, they're called "Al-Saheeh."

[Roshina]

[...] he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'Aisha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?

Wow...

I didn't know about this one. I'll have to look into it.

[Pakhtunzai]

I'm completely against this, never one in my life have hit a girl/woman and insha allah never will. (well as a kid I used to poke and kick my mum but that stopped as soon as I turned 12 lol) I would rather I hurt myself than lay a finger on my future wife.

Nothing justifies hitting a woman..it is cowardly!

[Master Khan]

if she cheats on you it will jusify what? u didn't pick one of the options of the post.

none, I will just shout at her and leave her and get a new wife .

[Sheenka]

[QUOTE=Sher Khan;63944]what would you do if you get a husband who cheats on you .

and you caught him red handed :D

wont you get out of temper ?
[/QUOTE

divorce him or her