Split Discussion: Should Pashto Be Standardised with a Roman Script?

[tor_khan]

Dear All

I am going to start a project of introducing Pashto in Romanized form. I would like your supports.

Anyone who wants to follow the Arabic form of Pashto they can do that anytime and always, but they should not hinder us to follow them. I think we will fast realize that in which form our language develops. But please please please stop stamping other people with infidel, Kafir or any other kind of names.

Young people full of energy all over europe, america, asia, middle east and central asia will support this project, older generation are more conservative and look at every new thing doubtful. I am going to start soon a webpage and i would like to know how many of this forum members are going to support me?

Please send me an email to:

pashtoromanization@gmail.com

please write me what you think of this project and explain how can we develop new alphabets, also tell me if there is someone who has made such attempts.


Regards

Khangul Ahmadzai

How about an example piece of text to convince the undecided? A complete Roman Pashto translation of your message might be a start.

[Old School Killiwal]

Dear All

I am going to start a project of introducing Pashto in Romanized form. I would like your supports.

Anyone who wants to follow the Arabic form of Pashto they can do that anytime and always, but they should not hinder us to follow them. I think we will fast realize that in which form our language develops. But please please please stop stamping other people with infidel, Kafir or any other kind of names.

Young people full of energy all over europe, america, asia, middle east and central asia will support this project, older generation are more conservative and look at every new thing doubtful. I am going to start soon a webpage and i would like to know how many of this forum members are going to support me?

Please send me an email to:

pashtoromanization@gmail.com

please write me what you think of this project and explain how can we develop new alphabets, also tell me if there is someone who has made such attempts.


Regards

Khangul Ahmadzai

I tried. Can't do it.

[یاسمینه]

How about an example piece of text to convince the undecided? A complete Roman Pashto translation of your message might be a start.

tor_khan, I think that Khangul doesn't know how to do this and he expects some help ("explain how can we develop new alphabets, also tell me if there is someone who has made such attempts"). Plus, it is not specified if he meant transcription or/and transliteration.

[khushal]

instead of using energy and resources to create new literature in a new alphabet that no afghans in afghanistan would want to learn anyways, why not use that energy and resources to translate history, math and science books into the pashto language or use that energy and resources to distribute already translated pashto literature to the afghan masses.

No wonder most of western afghans are failures becasue they have no creativity in helping the people in afghanistan to get education. Instaed of creating solutions, most of you are busy creating problems.

[tor_khan]

Merci beaucoup Khushal .

[Admin Khan]

instead of using energy and resources to create new literature in a new alphabet that no afghans in afghanistan would want to learn anyways, why not use that energy and resources to translate history, math and science books into the pashto language or use that energy and resources to distribute already translated pashto literature to the afghan masses.

No wonder most of western afghans are failures becasue they have no creativity in helping the people in afghanistan to get education. Instaed of creating solutions, most of you are busy creating problems.

[Khostai]

instead of using energy and resources to create new literature in a new alphabet that no afghans in afghanistan would want to learn anyways, why not use that energy and resources to translate history, math and science books into the pashto language or use that energy and resources to distribute already translated pashto literature to the afghan masses.

No wonder most of western afghans are failures becasue they have no creativity in helping the people in afghanistan to get education. Instaed of creating solutions, most of you are busy creating problems.

Yes that is a really good idea, about the translation of math science and hystory of the world in Pashto, does anybody knows that if anyone is doing that? It would be really good if Afghans began whith translating all the literature of the Western world to Pashtu, actually in Renasance the knowledge begun to grow when Europeans begun to translate the old latin books in there own language, Afghan should do the same. It would be one step in a good derection.

[Khangul]

Hello again!

I was expecting you guys to come up with tips and ideas on how we can turn this idea into reality. But unfortunately no one here came up with any solid ideas. There was one suggesting to turn into translation instead of proposing new written system. I would say that once the new system is made then translation of such works is much more easy. Its simply to program a software that the the English literature into Pashto as Google translate works. Now I dont know how i can upload some suggested alphabets since they are in picture files. anyone who knows please guide me.

[Old School Killiwal]

Hello again!

I was expecting you guys to come up with tips and ideas on how we can turn this idea into reality. But unfortunately no one here came up with any solid ideas. There was one suggesting to turn into translation instead of proposing new written system. I would say that once the new system is made then translation of such works is much more easy. Its simply to program a software that the the English literature into Pashto as Google translate works. Now I dont know how i can upload some suggested alphabets since they are in picture files. anyone who knows please guide me.

kedai na si.

[laevanay]

I support this idea... to losers this may be secularists etc etc but to rational thinkers its already happened. Most of those with limited english skills chat using the roman script in Pashtu. It would be better to standardise it now in its infancy than to wait and let this grow uncontrolled.

To those who say this would fail... the exact same thing was said of the Turkish language so I understand your point. But we can make it simpler for "others" to understand us and be part of a global village(again I understand those who wish to live in a well due to their own personal insecurities and my post is NOT for them.)

Please let me know how I can help.

[Khangul]

Hey lewanay Salamoona! i am totally in favor of romanizing the alphabets. please let join me and find others who can support this idea of ours. we will have to work together in order to make new alphabets.

thanks

[Alchemist]

the language of the future is chinglish...

forget pashto altogether children...

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I support this idea... to losers this may be secularists etc etc but to rational thinkers its already happened. Most of those with limited english skills chat using the roman script in Pashtu. It would be better to standardise it now in its infancy than to wait and let this grow uncontrolled.

To those who say this would fail... the exact same thing was said of the Turkish language so I understand your point. But we can make it simpler for "others" to understand us and be part of a global village(again I understand those who wish to live in a well due to their own personal insecurities and my post is NOT for them.)

Please let me know how I can help.

The proposal is not idiotic because of any concern for a secularist conspiracy. Its idiotic because people forget that English already has diacritical marks (take a look at any dictionary) that provide guidance for pronunciation. Its not rocket science. An example of this in romanized text is the umlaut in the German language.

So the basis for the expression of Pashto in Romanized text has existed for a long time.

However, Pashto speakers themselves are the key to guiding the orthographic construction of any alphabet system used to represent their language. In the world as we know it today, a rather large contingent of Pashto speakers are illiterate. In Pakistan proper, they learn persianized Arabic script and later take up the English alphabet, rendering them comfortable with both. The leap to learning Pashto script is not a big one at all and is rather easy.

The other issue is that the English speaking world, at least in the US, approaches learning of languages in a respectful manner. Even ancient greek is learned by learning the greek alphabet, chinese is taught with an introduction to Chinese script, etc.

The standardization of a script then proceeds through a natural evolutionary process. American English script found its orthographical standardization in Webster's work. To this day, the British dialect and the American dialect do not agree on certain spellings.

The other option is an institution adopting a standard. Who would adopt your standard? The Pashto academy in Peshawar or Kabul University??? In both places Pashto script is stressed for the same reasons that China stresses its own script.

For these reasons, namely

A) For those limited segments of the population seeking to learn Pashto that have no links to it, a system already exists which is: the combination of hearing it being spoken being linked to existing English text accompanied by diacritical marks. This then means your effort itself is of limited utility.

B) The group in A usually is motivated to learn more and is taught the Persianized Arabic script that underlies Pashto already.

So then the only other reason would be so that Pashto speakers themselves utilize a standard romanized spelling of Pashto words.

^ That is even more idiotic because this relies on bringing into sync the thousands of subdialects (Pashto can vary even from village to village) and major dialects and assuming that a people who are able to convey 99.999% of what they mean with even the available alternate spellings between themselves need to go and relearn Pashto. Therefore, it would limit communication between Pashto speakers instead of enhancing readability.

So you would basically force a person using wazirwala to

1) Learn a new alphabet system
2) Learn the diacritical marks in your new system
3) Squelch variations

Point 3 is already achieved with the current script and is in use in Afghanistan proper on every road sign and in every school text book.

Also, the advantage of permitting the current non standardized usage of the roman script as we use it is that it allows Pashtun diaspora to communicate in their native dialects without hinderance. This then enriches everyone here who wants to learn alternate dialects.

So basically, it has nothing to do with your fantasies about Mullahs seeking to destroy the romanized alphabet. That is already in use even for Quranic transliteration and there are copies of the Quran based purely on transliteration.

Instead, its exactly Khushaal's argument.

[یاسمینه]

From linguistic point of view the main argument against this idea is the fact that Pashto doesn't have linguistic norm.

[Khangul]

Salamoona once again

Mr Abdali come up with some reasons that i dont agree with all of them. He says that Pashto language differes from village to village. Its not true, the dialects are not that distinct from each other to be considered a difference. There are 3 main accents of spoken pashto but at the same time in the past it has always been the same arabic based alphabets that has been used. But still there is a lack of a standard written form. Now a days Qandahari people have formed a new written form and that is the written form of pashto based on their own accent of pronounciation. '

Since there is no standard form of pashto at all so why not we all try to restandardize it by forming a new set of alphabets based on roman alphabets, which includes all the sounds of pashto language. Also this will put us one step ahead in computer science. education, medicine and every other field. Some will call it a stupid idea but again they are narrow minded and dont want the pashto language to develope.