Split Discussion: Should Pashto Be Standardised with a Roman Script?

[یاسمینه]

I wrote that somewhere on PF... Polish language is very good for Pashto transcription and transliteration, apart from retroflex letters.

[Old School Killiwal]

I wrote that somewhere on PF... Polish language is very good for Pashto transcription and transliteration, apart from retroflex letters.

Yes. Substitution might work, for example if we take some Polish letters that aren't needed in Pashto and replace their values. But it would be too confusing.

[یاسمینه]

^ agree. Plus, what's a mad idea to change/standardize Pashto alphabet? Uniqueness is its advantage.

[khushal]

^ agree. Plus, what's a mad idea to change/standardize Pashto alphabet? Uniqueness is its advantage.

advantage to make our population more illiterate

[یاسمینه]

advantage to make our population more illiterate

Could you please elaborate how standardization Pashto with Roman script could reduce illiteracy?
Do you think that shape of letters makes illiteracy/literacy?

[khushal]

Could you please elaborate how standardization Pashto with Roman script could reduce illiteracy?
Do you think that shape of letters makes illiteracy/literacy?

No problem.
From a cultural viewpoint, Pashtuns are muslim, they naturally reject anything that is foreign especially European. If you want to go to pashtun villages and teach them roman script, they would never even consider it. they will view this as an attack on their way of life and de-islamifying their kids. This would increase illiteracy rate in the country not to mention that if one side of the durand accepts it and the other would not would further split our people.

From a logical point of view, why go with an illogical script like the roman alphebet where you need an encyclopedia to learn the rules when arabic cript is more logical and the rules are easy to comprehend. Going to the roman alphebet is like going to the roman numerals. Scimitar and I already discussed this with Osho, if you go back in the thread.

[Khostai]

Its to much of a troubel to replace our script by Roman. I find Arabic script beautiful Roman is just so .....
And by the way just becuase Toramona is secular doesn't mean every secularist wants to change it. Peopel are so quick to generalize here -_-.

[Soldat_Amir]

Look guys most of our people learn Arabic from a young age and still never understand what they are reading however we learn English too but most of us understand it very well.

Roman script is worldwide, so its in our interests to adopt it to make speaking and understanding our language but easier.

Arabic Script is too out-dated.

[tor_khan]

Look guys most of our people learn Arabic from a young age and still never understand what they are reading however we learn English too but most of us understand it very well.

Roman script is worldwide, so its in our interests to adopt it to make speaking and understanding our language but easier.

Arabic Script is too out-dated.

The Roman script does not cover the phonological range in Pashto. The name of our language is a good example of that.

I call the language Pa/sh/to when I speak in other languages or write in English, but call it Pu/kh/to or Pa/kh/to when I actually speak the language. And there is your first hurdle - which standard pronunciation to use when I write it in Roman script. Our transliterations depend very much on our regional dialect of Pashto.

پښتو on the other hand can be read (and said) equally by all literate users of the language. And note that the letter ښ does not appear in Arabic or any other language. Pashto has taken from Arabic but has localised many loan words and modified the lettering - our respected member Aryob mentioned something to this effect recently on these pages too.

It is Pashto script that holds the dialects of our language together and can bind Pashtuns however seperated their regional dialects appear. This is important if we are going to be politically unified and not drift into seperation the way the Kurds have done. Kurds with multiple scripts and mutually unitelligible dialects, struggle to communicate with each other when they are from different regions. How can they hope to have a unified movement when they their language either written or spoken doesn't bring them together?

There are times when I think that if Pashtuns paid more attention to their language, then we would begin to overcome the 'mental' blocks that sometimes separate us.

[retro]

The Roman script does not cover the phonological range in Pashto.

That is also true of English and it's has a condensed alphabet of 26 characters. When apparently it would need over 30 characters to cover it's range. This is why if Pashto where to migrate it would make sence to add a few characters. As the Roman script is a condensed Greek script.

[tor_khan]

That is also true of English and it's has a condensed alphabet of 26 characters. When apparently it would need over 30 characters to cover it's range. This is why if Pashto where to migrate it would make sence to add a few characters. As the Roman script is a condensed Greek script.

You are absolutely right about English ... as the language grew and words from Norse languages, French, German, Latin etc. found their way into English, Latin script ran out of characters.

... Since we currently don't have that problem in Pashto with the current script, why go out of our way to create it with a modified Roman script?

P.S. Latin did not have a 26 letter alphabet to start with.

P.P.S. Informally, people write Pashto in Roman script (happens here all the time - though note, it is informal). It's just that a Kandahari would write it differently to a Peshawari based on the phonemes in each others dialects. Do that for a longer piece of text and then comprehension becomes difficult.

[retro]

You are absolutely right about English ... as the language grew and words from Norse languages, French, German, Latin etc. found their way into English, Latin script ran out of characters.

... Since we currently don't have that problem in Pashto with the current script, why go out of our way to create it with a modified Roman script?

P.S. Latin did not have a 26 letter alphabet to start with.

P.P.S. Informally, people write Pashto in Roman script (happens here all the time - though note, it is informal). It's just that a Kandahari would write it differently to a Peshawari based on the phonemes in each others dialects. Do that for a longer piece of text and then comprehension becomes difficult.

English has had a lot of innovations and been compressed and whilst this isn't entirely a bad thing. It really needs a few more characters like older Indo-European scripts.

It makes little sence to resurrect and update ancient Iranic scripts or for Pashtuns to adopt the Latin one. In fact I'd say that it would be better to adopt a new type of contemporary alphabet that is faster to read and type.

Vilifying the Latin alphabet for being Western is nonsensical. As the Latin alphabet is really a abridged Greek character set and the Greek alphabet like the Arabic one is derived from the Phoenician alphabet.

[al-arab]

English has had a lot of innovations and been compressed and whilst this isn't entirely a bad thing. It really needs a few more characters like older Indo-European scripts.

It makes little sence to resurrect and update ancient Iranic scripts or for Pashtuns to adopt the Latin one. In fact I'd say that it would be better to adopt a new type of contemporary alphabet that is faster to read and type.

Vilifying the Latin alphabet for being Western is nonsensical. As the Latin alphabet is really a abridged Greek character set and the Greek alphabet like the Arabic one is derived from the Phoenician alphabet.

Which again descended from the oldest written expressions such as the Cuneiform Script and Sumerian (used in ancient Iraq)

Phoenician was also an Semitic alphabet.

But did the Greek alphabet evolve directly from the Phoenician, retro?

[Khangul]

Dear All

I am going to start a project of introducing Pashto in Romanized form. I would like your supports.

Anyone who wants to follow the Arabic form of Pashto they can do that anytime and always, but they should not hinder us to follow them. I think we will fast realize that in which form our language develops. But please please please stop stamping other people with infidel, Kafir or any other kind of names.

Young people full of energy all over europe, america, asia, middle east and central asia will support this project, older generation are more conservative and look at every new thing doubtful. I am going to start soon a webpage and i would like to know how many of this forum members are going to support me?

Please send me an email to:

pashtoromanization@gmail.com

please write me what you think of this project and explain how can we develop new alphabets, also tell me if there is someone who has made such attempts.


Regards

Khangul Ahmadzai

[یاسمینه]

I wonder if you succeed this idea. Pashto is not like the Georgian language where one letter has only one vocalization and vice versa.