Pashto Basic course discussion topic.

[NiMade Olga]

I was reading a book and there was written:
"Hagha warta wawayal che..." - ...هغه ورته وويال چې
Is it right to translate it: "he [that guy] told him [to another man], that..."?
And now also I remember that in real life I heard people saying: "warta weile..." Is it the same with "warta wawayal" but just less formal, or that is a different form of the verb "to say"? If it it a different, then how can I use it, could you kindly give me 2-3 examples, please?
And also, please, tell how to pronounce this correctly واى
Thank you.


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[Badlun]

[QUOTE=یاسمینه;706807]

I will do that tomorrow. Just please tell me, what would you like me to do. To write your translation or my own translation? I have impression that sometimes you use colloquial language. For example: you translated "...aw malgaro sara winam" while my version would be "aw le malgaro sara winem"...

I try to use standard formal Pashto not colloquial or informal one but translations can have different versions every where. However to convey the overall meaning is what matters, connotations,Idiomatic, figurative or metaphorical uses, colloquialism, slang not that much .

For example aw le malgaro sara winam, da malgaro sara winam, malgaro sara winam all convey the literal or overall meaning in the same way. Winam or winem will be written in the same Pashto script.

For uniformity you can write my translation in Pashto script and in parenthesis can add whatever word you really feel is missing.

[Badlun]

I was reading a book and there was written:
"Hagha warta wawayal che..." - ...هغه ورته وويال چې
Is it right to translate it: "he [that guy] told him [to another man], that..."?
And now also I remember that in real life I heard people saying: "warta weile..." Is it the same with "warta wawayal" but just less formal, or that is a different form of the verb "to say"? If it it a different, then how can I use it, could you kindly give me 2-3 examples, please?
And also, please, tell how to pronounce this correctly واى
Thank you.


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wayal is to say=infinitive form
uwayal or wwayal , uwey is said =simple past form. uwayal, wwayal or uwey are all difference of accent and are regional registers. the most literary or written form is uwayal. He told him=hagha warta uwayal

warta weile is past perfect tense he had said to him=hagha warta weyeli woo or weile woo
he told me that to give him a book=he ma ta uwaual che yaw kitab warla werkam
he had told me that he might come tomorrow=hagha ma ta weyali(weile) woo che keidey shi hagha saba rashi
wayee is simple present tense= he says, hagha wayee

[یاسمینه]

I try to use standard formal Pashto not colloquial or informal one but translations can have different versions every where. However to convey the overall meaning is what matters, connotations,Idiomatic, figurative or metaphorical uses, colloquialism, slang not that much .
I can't agree with you. I was taught (by a Pashtun linquist) that in writing full forms should be used -i.e both pre and postpositions if required, full forms of verbs etc. Otherwise there is no point to learn/ teach grammar or lik dod, to work on any linguistic norm or standards for Pashto. The way you translated is correct but to me it looks like a bit informal conversation. Of course it is good to know informal, speaking language. I do not know why and where Olga learns Pashto, but for my Ustaad certain forms wouldn't be acceptable in writting.
For example aw le malgaro sara winam, da malgaro sara winam, malgaro sara winam all convey the literal or overall meaning in the same way. Right, but in any case preposition is required You know that you can use few combinations of pre and postpositions to say "with".

For uniformity you can write my translation in Pashto script and in parenthesis can add whatever word you really feel is missing.

OK, more tomorrow.

[یاسمینه]

wayal is to say=infinitive form
uwayal or wwayal , uwey is said =simple past form. uwayal, wwayal or uwey are all difference of accent and are regional registers. the most literary or written form is uwayal. He told him=hagha warta uwayal
"extra" و at the beginning of a verb is to express perfective aspect. Verbs in Pashto per se are in imperfective aspect.

.

[کیش]

Summaey of thr Verb Tenses in English with Pashto Equivalents

Name of Tense Example (english) Example (Pashto

1) Simple Present I Build زه آبادوم

2) Simple Past I Built ما آبادکئ

3) Simle future I will build. زه به آبدکم

4)Simple future in the past. I Should built زه به آبادکئ

5)Present Imperfectice. I am building زه آبادوم

6) Present prefect i have built آبادکړړئ دئ

7)Present perfect continiuous. i have been building. ما آبدوئ

8) Past imperfective. I was building آبادکړړئ دئ

9) Past Perfect. I had Built ما آود کړئ وئ

10) Past perfect continuous I had been building (Same as #7)

11) Future continuous I will be building (same as #4)

12) Future perfect I will have built ما به آبد کړئ وئ

13) Future perfect continuous. i will have been building. (same as #12)

14) Future in the past progressive.I should be buildingزه به آبدوم

15) Future in the past perfect.I should have builtما به آود کړئ وای

That should cover all 15 of the commonly used Pashto Verbal conjucations. note, some are the same.

[یاسمینه]

at the end of this thread you have scans of two Pashto verbs conjugated in all tenses, including names of these tenses.
If you need conjugation of a particular verb, just tell me, I might will find it in my book (it contains 300 conjugated verbs)

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=18856

[NiMade Olga]

OK, more tomorrow.

Thank you for help.
I started learning Pashto from listening people, watching TV and reading books but that was not enough of course because at a certain level comes need to understand grammar as well. Now I am here to understand all these things because I can understand what people says in general, I can talk with my servants, driver, darzi, with sales men in bazaar... But I can't talk with elders of my friends' families when visiting them, as they don't speak English or Urdu, I can't talk with most of women in villages, and even with some of ladies in a family where I spend my all free time, due to the same reason. I can't make any proper sentence except either ordering either abusing - such a shame.
Now the first and second examples which I used were from pages 12-15 of this thread, and they were posted by some previous learners.
The last example about warta uwayal was from the book "The treasures of Pashto", from the story about king and Ayaz. Some words I can't understand how to read and then I am searching for them in a dictionary, but of course many words and forms are not included in it.


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[یاسمینه]

[QUOTE=Badlun;706652]
I get up early in the morning and go to river side for a walk. then I come back home and take a cold bath. Then I take my breakfast and prepare to go for university. In university I attend various classes and meet my friends. I also attend some sessions on culture and politics. I also deliver talk on Pashto, Pashtuns and Pashtunwali. Then at afternoon I come back home , take rest and then play foot ball. At night I participate in various forums of Pashtunforums.com. I like this site very much. then I go to bed.

Correct translation

za sahar wakhti pasam aw da sind gharhey ta chakar ta zam. bya kor ta wapaz razam aw pa yakho ubo lambam. bya nashta/sarha kom aw da pohantoon tlalo dapara tayari kom. pa pohantoon ke mukhtalif clasuna akhlam aw malgaro sara winam. za pa Kaltur aw syasat band hum sabakuna akhlam. Za pa pashto, Pashtano aw pashtunwali band sabakuna/taqriruna hum kom. Pasta maspaxina kor ta wapas/pastana razam. aram kom aw bya foot ball/pandoskey kom. Da shpey pa pashtun foramuno ke pa ganrho brakho ke brakha akhlam. zama da web panrha dera khwaxa da. Bya uda kegam.

Badlun's version:
I get up early in the morning and go to river side for a walk.
za sahar wakhti pasam aw da sind gharhey ta chakar ta zam.
زه سهار وختي پاڅم او د سیند غاړې ته چکر ته ځم.

then I come back home and take a cold bath.
bya kor ta wapaz razam aw pa yakho ubo lambam.
بیا کور ته واپز راځم او په یخو اوبو لامبم.

Then I take my breakfast and prepare to go for university.
bya nashta/sarha kom aw da pohantoon tlalo dapara tayari kom.
بیا ناشته کوم او د پوهنتون تللو دپاره تیاري کوم.

In university I attend various classes and meet my friends.
pa pohantoon ke mukhtalif clasuna akhlam aw malgaro sara winam.
په پوهنتون کې مختلف کلاسونه اخلم او ملګرو سره وینم.

I also attend some sessions on culture and politics.
za pa Kaltur aw syasat band hum sabakuna akhlam.
زه په کلتور او سیاست باند هم سبکونه اخلم.

I also deliver talk on Pashto, Pashtuns and Pashtunwali.
Za pa pashto, Pashtano aw pashtunwali band sabakuna/taqriruna hum kom.
زه په پشتو، پشتنو او پشتونولی باند سبکونه/تقریرونه هم کوم.

Then at afternoon I come back home , take rest and then play foot ball.
Pasta maspaxina kor ta wapas/pastana razam, aram kom aw bya foot ball/pandoskey kom.
پسته ماسپخینه کور ته واپس راځم, آرام کوم او بیا فوټبال/پنډوسکې کوم.

At night I participate in various forums of Pashtunforums.com.
Da shpey pa pashtun foramuno ke pa ganrho brakho ke brakha akhlam.
د شپې په پشتون فورمونو کې په ګڼو برخو کې برخه اخلم.

I like this site very much.
zama da web panrha dera khwaxa da.
زما دا ویبپاڼه ډېره خوښه ده

then I go to bed.
Bya uda kegam.
بیا اوده کیږم

In my opinion there are three errors which may confuse a potential Pashto learner, especially why he/she will try to check certain words in a dictionary:

1. there is واپز instead of واپس
2. there is باند instead of باددې
3. there is سبک / سبکونه instead of سبق / سبقونه

(that's why I dislike English Pashto - nothing but confusions).

My version soon.

[یاسمینه]

Thank you for help.
I started learning Pashto from listening people, watching TV and reading books but that was not enough of course because at a certain level comes need to understand grammar as well. Now I am here to understand all these things because I can understand what people says in general, I can talk with my servants, driver, darzi, with sales men in bazaar... But I can't talk with elders of my friends' families when visiting them, as they don't speak English or Urdu, I can't talk with most of women in villages, and even with some of ladies in a family where I spend my all free time, due to the same reason. I can't make any proper sentence except either ordering either abusing - such a shame.
Now the first and second examples which I used were from pages 12-15 of this thread, and they were posted by some previous learners.

Olga, can you read/ write in Pashto? If so I would advice you to start learning from posts written in Pashto, unless you don't have any trouble with English Pashto. As I remember there were Pashto lessons written by Tor Khan.
I understood from your post that you would like to start speaking Pashto. So maybe the best way is to start from simple sentences - you could write them in Pashto with English meaning and then someone here would check them and give grammar comment?
With Badlun we have different approach to learning/ teaching because he is a native Pashto speaker, I am not a native Pashto speaker, with general linguistic knowledge.

[NiMade Olga]

Olga, can you read/ write in Pashto? If so I would advice you to start learning from posts written in Pashto, unless you don't have any trouble with English Pashto. As I remember there were Pashto lessons written by Tor Khan.
I understood from your post that you would like to start speaking Pashto. So maybe the best way is to start from simple sentences - you could write them in Pashto with English meaning and then someone here would check them and give grammar comment?
With Badlun we have different approach to learning/ teaching because he is a native Pashto speaker, I am not a native Pashto speaker, with general linguistic knowledge.

Thank you so much for the advice! I will look for those lessons. Yes I want to start speaking and want to become really fluent with Pashto. Now with the example which you gave in previous post I'm not sure that I can become that good in it as all these verb tenses are out of my understanding even in English language...
I can read not bad but writing is a bit difficult - have to always correct myself from dictionary. But I think this will be good for learning and will help me to read more fluent. Yes, thank you again for the advise!


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[Badlun]

In any language learning process , every word, every small detail matters. A language learner may pick one word from here and one rule of grammar from there. Every mote of effort contributes towards perfection.

Instead of recommending one thread, one book, one approach we may learn from any where we can. Written material in Pashto script, transliterated one or in any form , all help. What matters is dedication and getting guidance from any where possible.

We facilitators may encourage and make things easy for participants not confuse them with unnecessary technical details. Becoming expert in Linguistics is one thing and using a language for simple communication is another thing.

[Shah-i-Kot]

Olga, can you read/ write in Pashto? If so I would advice you to start learning from posts written in Pashto, unless you don't have any trouble with English Pashto. As I remember there were Pashto lessons written by Tor Khan.
I understood from your post that you would like to start speaking Pashto. So maybe the best way is to start from simple sentences - you could write them in Pashto with English meaning and then someone here would check them and give grammar comment?
With Badlun we have different approach to learning/ teaching because he is a native Pashto speaker, I am not a native Pashto speaker, with general linguistic knowledge.

you cant learn a language on the internet. Not Pashto or Chinese or whatever. You need to just speak with people - thats the only effective way.

[Badlun]

[QUOTE=یاسمینه;706913]

I get up early in the morning and go to river side for a walk. then I come back home and take a cold bath. Then I take my breakfast and prepare to go for university. In university I attend various classes and meet my friends. I also attend some sessions on culture and politics. I also deliver talk on Pashto, Pashtuns and Pashtunwali. Then at afternoon I come back home , take rest and then play foot ball. At night I participate in various forums of Pashtunforums.com. I like this site very much. then I go to bed.

Correct translation

za sahar wakhti pasam aw da sind gharhey ta chakar ta zam. bya kor ta wapaz razam aw pa yakho ubo lambam. bya nashta/sarha kom aw da pohantoon tlalo dapara tayari kom. pa pohantoon ke mukhtalif clasuna akhlam aw malgaro sara winam. za pa Kaltur aw syasat band hum sabakuna akhlam. Za pa pashto, Pashtano aw pashtunwali band sabakuna/taqriruna hum kom. Pasta maspaxina kor ta wapas/pastana razam. aram kom aw bya foot ball/pandoskey kom. Da shpey pa pashtun foramuno ke pa ganrho brakho ke brakha akhlam. zama da web panrha dera khwaxa da. Bya uda kegam.

Badlun's version:
I get up early in the morning and go to river side for a walk.
za sahar wakhti pasam aw da sind gharhey ta chakar ta zam.
زه سهار وختي پاڅم او د سیند غاړې ته چکر ته ځم.

then I come back home and take a cold bath.
bya kor ta wapaz razam aw pa yakho ubo lambam.
بیا کور ته واپز راځم او په یخو اوبو لامبم.

Then I take my breakfast and prepare to go for university.
bya nashta/sarha kom aw da pohantoon tlalo dapara tayari kom.
بیا ناشته کوم او د پوهنتون تللو دپاره تیاري کوم.

In university I attend various classes and meet my friends.
pa pohantoon ke mukhtalif clasuna akhlam aw malgaro sara winam.
په پوهنتون کې مختلف کلاسونه اخلم او ملګرو سره وینم.

I also attend some sessions on culture and politics.
za pa Kaltur aw syasat band hum sabakuna akhlam.
زه په کلتور او سیاست باند هم سبکونه اخلم.

I also deliver talk on Pashto, Pashtuns and Pashtunwali.
Za pa pashto, Pashtano aw pashtunwali band sabakuna/taqriruna hum kom.
زه په پشتو، پشتنو او پشتونولی باند سبکونه/تقریرونه هم کوم.

Then at afternoon I come back home , take rest and then play foot ball.
Pasta maspaxina kor ta wapas/pastana razam, aram kom aw bya foot ball/pandoskey kom.
پسته ماسپخینه کور ته واپس راځم, آرام کوم او بیا فوټبال/پنډوسکې کوم.

At night I participate in various forums of Pashtunforums.com.
Da shpey pa pashtun foramuno ke pa ganrho brakho ke brakha akhlam.
د شپې په پشتون فورمونو کې په ګڼو برخو کې برخه اخلم.

I like this site very much.
zama da web panrha dera khwaxa da.
زما دا ویبپاڼه ډېره خوښه ده

then I go to bed.
Bya uda kegam.
بیا اوده کیږم

In my opinion there are three errors which may confuse a potential Pashto learner, especially why he/she will try to check certain words in a dictionary:

1. there is واپز instead of واپس
2. there is باند instead of باددې
3. there is سبک / سبکونه instead of سبق / سبقونه

(that's why I dislike English Pashto - nothing but confusions).

My version soon.

1. It was written wrong ,wapas should have been written not wapaz(I am in Spain these days and because using Spanish 24 hours unconsciously I wrote Z for S)
2. Band is the shorter form of bande and is used sometimes like zama pa ta band bawar dey=I trust you
3. Many Pashtun linguists are against copying Arabic words exactly an dtry to pashtunize such words like sabaq of Arabic into sabak or khalak(people) instead of khalaq. For me both are correct, sabak or sabaq

[Badlun]

you cant learn a language on the internet. Not Pashto or Chinese or whatever. You need to just speak with people - thats the only effective way.

Everything helps, internet, native speakers, grammar, Linguistics, vocabulary, RPS(Receptive and productive skills:reading, listening, writing, speaking).

I speak 7 languages and my experience is that language is an ocean and each drop contributes. Avail each opportunity. Some will have internet some practice with native speakers ,some both.