Pashto Basic course discussion topic.

[NiMade Olga]

Olga, check this file [URL="http://www.pashtunforums.com/pashto-language/18868.htm"]
Do you speak Russian? If you do, you have a great opportunity to learn Pashto grammar in Russian. It is the best description of Pashto grammar available in our kitabtoon

Thank you so much for the link and for suggestion!
Yes, I speak Russian. I talk and write English but I never could understand how to use its grammar and for a long time I couldn't speak English. Then I told to myself that it is only confusion in rules stops me from speaking English so I just threw away all those heavy explanations and started listening intuition which tells me how to say this or that. Also I never learn Russian linguistic terminology (my major at school was Chinese which has really simple structure and grammar) and all these heavy words and explanations makes me really sick I don't know, may be with Pashto I have to do the same as I did with English - just start talking and listen intuition?

[NiMade Olga]

Here we go
http://www.pashtunforums.com/pashto-...ries/24442.htm

It was written in 60's or so and still remains the best Pasto grammar ever. English or Frenc manuals aren't good at all. Do you speak German?

I love youuuu!!!
No, only Russian, English, some Chinese and Urdu

[یاسمینه]

I love youuuu!!!
No, only Russian, English, some Chinese and Urdu

So good luck and please feel free to ask if you have any questions I know Shafeev well - it was my main source to learn Pashto in general, not only grammar.

Of course you have to start talking and trying to express yourself in Pashto. It is normal that at the beginning you will make errors, but with time you could apply grammar rules and you become more fluent

[NiMade Olga]

Ok, let me try to say something...

زه په سپاسنتار كر كوم - I'm working in the SPA center
د زما خپلا بزنيس دې - this is my own business
او زما يو شريک هم شته - also I have a partner
هغه ديړ ښه سرې دې ، ديړ منور او خوندور دې - he is a very good man, very intelligent and pleasant person

Hope there are not too many mistakes...

[Badlun]

Ok, let me try to say something...

زه په سپاسنتار كر كوم - I'm working in the SPA center
د زما خپلا بزنيس دې - this is my own business
او زما يو شريک هم شته - also I have a partner
هغه ديړ ښه سرې دې ، ديړ منور او خوندور دې - he is a very good man, very intelligent and pleasant person

Hope there are not too many mistakes...

almost no mistake , few comments

kar=work
ker=tilling,cultivation of field and sowing of seeds
In the SPA=Pa SPA ke
business can be translated as karobar
shareek=shareekwal=brakhawal or zama sara pa brakha dey
manawar=zeerak=zaheen=huxyar

[یاسمینه]

Ok, let me try to say something...

زه په سپاسنتار كر كوم - I'm working in the SPA center
د زما خپلا بزنيس دې - this is my own business
او زما يو شريک هم شته - also I have a partner
هغه ديړ ښه سرې دې ، ديړ منور او خوندور دې - he is a very good man, very intelligent and pleasant person

Hope there are not too many mistakes...

Below you have my version of your English sentences (I modified them a little):

1. I work in the SPA center
زه په سپا سنتار کښې / کي کار کوم.
Since I don’t like English words in Pashto, my version would be following:
زه په سپا مرکز کښې/ کي کار کوم
په... کښې (pe… ke), another version is په ... کي (pe…ki) - they are preposition (په ) and postposition (کښې ، کي ) ; this combination of pre- and postposition means „in”.
مرکز (markaz) - here it means „center”.
2. This is my own business.
دا زما بزنیس دی
I would say:
دا زما کاروبار دی
کاروبار (karubar) – business
3. Also I have a partner
او زه یو شریک هم لرم
4. He is a very good, very intelligent and pleasant person.
هغه ډېر ښه، ډېر هوښیاراومهربان سړی دی
هوښیار (huhiar) – inteligent
مهربان (mehraban) - kind

You should pay more attention to the dots - see following letters: ی، ي، ې . Apart from that - it is a good start

[یاسمینه]

This is a difference of pronunciation and accent not dialect as we do not have kandahari dialect and Jalalabadi dialect based on the difference of this S and SH sound/phoneme.

Again it is North-South not East-west. The neighboring areas of Pakistan in the east also uses soft S and not SH while in Peshawar, Swat , Karak they use Sh not S.

The issue is that we may identify such differences but not magnify them to call it a dialect and thus outsiders will think that it is an impossible task to learn Pashto because it has hundreds of dialects and we cannot master so many dialects.

It is just a simple matter that in Kandahar you say si not shi(both phonemes very similar not like one is si and the other is di) but this difference may not be exaggerated to the extent that there is another kind of Pashto in Kandahar or Jalalabad.

Badlun, what are your linguistic qualifications to determine what is dialects, and what is not? Do you have sufficient knowlegde? Or your knowlegde is the result of the wish that there is only one Pashto language that unites Pashtuns? Even the most famous Pashun linguist professor M. Zyar writes about groups of Pashto dialects.
http://www.pashtunforums.com/pashto-...htm#post692061

There is also the paper by N. A. Dvoryankov "Pashto Dialects and the Literary Language in Afghanistan" presented in 1968 in the XXVI International Congress of Orientalists

In my opinion, the multitude of Pashto dialects is one of the charms of Pashto language, something that distinguishes it from other languages and makes it so special. The fact that there are many dialects of Pashto doesn't change the fact that Pashto is the language of Pashtuns. I would add that the Pashto language is one of the determinants of being a Pashtun, but mass emigration made that some Pashtuns don't speak Pashto, but they are still Pashtuns.

[NiMade Olga]

1. مرکز (markaz) - here it means „center”.
2. 2. This is my own business.
دا زما کاروبار دی


3. You should pay more attention to the dots - see following letters: ی، ي، ې .
4. Apart from that - it is a good start

Thank you very much for help and encouraging me!
After your comments I got couple of questions:
1. I was pretty sure that markaz is used for the center like location - center of the city or something like that... And I thought there must be some more word which I can use for the spa center, do you know any other option?
2. In دا زما كاروبار دى there will be no خپلا in the meaning my own? And how to read دى ? Is it day or dai or di?
3. I'm a bit confused in which of them is used with English spelling of day dai di de, could you help me please?
4. Thank you again

[یاسمینه]

Olga, see my answers below:

1. مرکز - depending on the context, it also means a base - like a military base, center of a city, club, office, activity center (like SPA center) etc. I am sure that other synonyms exists, but usually I use مرکز

2. دی (dǝy) - means "is" and refers to a masculine noun in singular form, for example, "... man is" - سړی دی ، ... "...pen is" - قلم دی ;
دی (day) - means "he", like in the sentence "he is a German" - دی آلمانی دی (almanay - German);
دي (di) - means "are" and refers to the 3rd person in plural form (masculine or feminine), for example "they are" - دوی دي (duy - they);
دا (da - "a" is long) - means "it", for example, "it is a pen" - دا قلم دی - (qalam - pen, masculine noun);
دا (da - "a" is long) mans "she", like in the sentence "she says" - دا وايي (waji - says (3 rd person singular);
ده (da - "a" is short) - can have several meanings. In simple sentences, in present tense it means "is" and refers to a feminine noun in singular form, for example, "it is a mother" - دا مور ده ;
دې (de) - can have 7 different meanings, I think that my explanations all together would confuse you. I will explain them in the future, when you ask me a specific question.

The personal pronouns دی ، دا ("she" and "he")are used only if the person is near, "visible".

[یاسمینه]

2. In دا زما كاروبار دى there will be no خپلا in the meaning my own? And how to read دى ? Is it day or dai or di?

If you want to emphazise that it is your own business you can add "own" - خپل
Then your sentence would be following:
دا زما خپل کاروبار دی. (da zma khpel karubar dǝy)

خپل is an adjective and it means that its form must correcpond to a noun, i.e must have the same grammatical gender and number. If a give noun is masculine in singular form, then adjective must have the same form; if the noun is feminine in plural form, then adjective must have the same form.

see few exapmles:
"my own houses": "house" in Pashto is a masculine noun - کور ; its plural form is کورونه (koruna); "own" - masculine form in plural and singular is the same: خپل . So the expression would be زما خپل کورونه (the personal pronoun زما doesn't change its form here).

" my own land" - "land" in Pashto is a feminine noun - مځکه (mdzeka) or ځمکه (dzmeka). It means that the adjective "own" -خپل also mus be in feminine form, ie خپله . So it will be: زما خپله مځکه (zma khpela mdzeka).

"my own exercise books" - exercise book in Pashto is a feminine noun - کتابچه , additionally in our example it is in plural form: کتابچې (kitabche). It means that the adjective must be in the same form (feminine plural):
زما خپلې کتابچې (zma khpele kitabche)

The main problem is that adjectives are irregular...So when you see a new adjective, better to learn immediately its masuline and feminine forms (singular and plural).

Few examples:
اوږد (ugd) - long (masculine, singular) اوږد سفر - long trip (ugd safar)
اوږده (ugdǝ) - long (masculine, plural) اوږه سفرونه - long trips (ugdǝ safaruna)
اوږده (ugda) - long (feminine, singular) اوږده لار - long way (ugda lar)
اوږدې (ugde) - long (feminine, plural) اوږدې لاري - long ways (ugde lari)

سوړ (sor) - cold (masculine, singular)
ساړه (sarǝ) - cold (masculine, plural)
سړه (sara) - cold (feminine, singular)
سړې (sare) - cold (feminine, plural)

[Badlun]

Badlun, what are your linguistic qualifications to determine what is dialects, and what is not? Do you have sufficient knowlegde? Or your knowlegde is the result of the wish that there is only one Pashto language that unites Pashtuns? Even the most famous Pashun linguist professor M. Zyar writes about groups of Pashto dialects.
http://www.pashtunforums.com/pashto-...htm#post692061

There is also the paper by N. A. Dvoryankov "Pashto Dialects and the Literary Language in Afghanistan" presented in 1968 in the XXVI International Congress of Orientalists

In my opinion, the multitude of Pashto dialects is one of the charms of Pashto language, something that distinguishes it from other languages and makes it so special. The fact that there are many dialects of Pashto doesn't change the fact that Pashto is the language of Pashtuns. I would add that the Pashto language is one of the determinants of being a Pashtun, but mass emigration made that some Pashtuns don't speak Pashto, but they are still Pashtuns.

As many Pashtuns including scholars like Ghani Khan do not know that the word Pathan is a misnomer and is a word of hate, similarly many Pashtuns unwittingly fall in trap in presenting Pashto to be a difficult language by having so many dialects. This is a war against the mother Pashto. If you read other scholars you will find them categorizing Pashto only in two dialects(Hard and Soft=Northern/Southern). This division covers every thing and there is no need of further subdivisions.

I have done few courses in English and Pashto Linguistics and have done some work on Sociolinguistics, psycholinguistics, syntax, semantics, phonology , Pashto dialects/accents etc.

[یاسمینه]

As many Pashtuns including scholars like Ghani Khan do not know that the word Pathan is a misnomer and is a word of hate,
I believe in what Oranski said, that Pathan is an anglicised term of Pashtun from XVI cent.

similarly many Pashtuns unwittingly fall in trap in presenting Pashto to be a difficult language by having so many dialects.
Pashto is a difficult language, not only because of dialects, also because of grammar. You as a native speaker will never experience what the learning Pashto means.
This is a war against the mother Pashto.
This is your mother language and probably this fact prevents you from seeing this language "from distance", from purely academic considerations, without emotions. No need to put conspiracy theory behind.
If you read other scholars you will find them categorizing Pashto only in two dialects(Hard and Soft=Northern/Southern). This division covers every thing and there is no need of further subdivisions.
Any names? The problem is that anyone can write what he wants. But all top Pashto linguist says about groups of dialects. Pashto doesn't have too many Pashtun linguists, 3-4, not more. Also there is not too many Pashto linguists in general. These like Oranski, MacKenzie, Penzl, Morgenstierne (and his famous students), even my both professors (also well known), both Pashto linguists say that tere are few main groups of dialects.
I think you want the unity of Pashto badly that you are prone to follow anyone who will say what you believe.
Maybe now you realize why international instututions like Swiss lingua always rely on foreign linguists, never on native speakers, because their work is never biased by emotional attitude to the given issue.

You say that the division for two dialects is sufficient. I assume that Bannu dialect, in your opinion is close to one of them?

I have done few courses in English and Pashto Linguistics
So if you know Pashto and English lingustic terminology, why don't you correct post of other users? Few days ago Kais wrote "1) M1 Nouns - are male people/animals. their direct plurals have the suffix [-an)(ان)." There is a huge difference between suffix in English and in Pashto. While the English suffix and ending mean the same thing, then in Pashto suffix and ending are two different terms (many authors of Pashto textbooks don't pay attention to that). I suppose you'd say that such things are not important to a potential studet. Well, they are important. A person who doesn't know grammar won't suffer reading the correct terminology. And the person who knows grammar will be at least confused. We never know the background of those who learn Pashto from this (or other relevant) threads. I bet that most of users wish to remain anonymous. This should not affect the quality of the information.

and have done some work on Sociolinguistics, psycholinguistics, syntax, semantics, phonology , Pashto dialects/accents etc.

I think you could answer the question from this thread - it's about phonology:
http://www.pashtunforums.com/pashtun...htm#post707825

[Badlun]

On the dialects issues I will reiterate that in this division of soft/southern and hard/northern , every thing is covered.

Some call the dialect of Bannu/Waziristan as Central (| Ethnologue I have been to Bannu and Waziristan and have passed there months talking to Pashtuns and no doubt there is a marked difference in the way they speak as compared the way Pashto is spoken in Kandahar or Peshawar. But the way they speak is nearer to Kandahar/Quetta than Peshawar or Jalalabad hence their accent and distinct pronunciation can easily be classified as Soft dialect as they use SH, J and not KH or G.

Waneci is an interesting case. I have a thread on this dialect or another variance of Pashto or even a separate language. I invite you there to have further discussion.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/hujra/23394.htm

There is a good description of the two dialects of Pashto here


Pashto dialects (Pashto: د پښتو ګړدودونه da Pax̌to gəṛdodūna) can be divided into two main varieties, a "harsh" northern variety and a "soft" southern variety, whose dividing line passes through Zabul and Paktika provinces and then cuts right across the Durand line, the frontier between Afghanistan and Pakistan. The harsh "Pax̌to" is spoken in eastern and northeastern Afghanistan, central and northern Pakhtunkhwa and northern Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), and the soft "Paṣ̌to" south of it, in southern Afghanistan, north Balochistan, southern FATA and southern Pakhtunkhwa. The harsh variety is spoken by more Pashtuns.
Pashto dialects - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Such wording is conspiracy to divide Pashtun linguistically on the line of their political division. You know it is totally wrong as Pashto dialect of Quetta Pakistan is exactly the same we have in Kandahar Afghanistan.

There are two major dialects of Pashto: Western Pashto spoken in Afghanistan and in the capital, Kabul, and Eastern Pashto spoken in northeastern Pakistan.
History of Pushto language

[zahir]

Badlun wrora,
I notice you are probably the very best and most knowledgable teacher on the Pashto basic course thread. Can you please tell me how to properly use two verbs in a sentence.
Example:
1) I heard him saying that.
2) I saw them going there.
3) I hear him talking.

Dera manana.

[Badlun]

Badlun wrora,
I notice you are probably the very best and most knowledgable teacher on the Pashto basic course thread. Can you please tell me how to properly use two verbs in a sentence.
Example:
1) I heard him saying that.
2) I saw them going there.
3) I hear him talking.

Dera manana.

Dera manana . We have so many good facilitators/teachers here and a sa team we will help you to participate in this course.

The use of verb is always very important and at the same time very complicated because verb changes its form according to number, gender, tense, person etc. For example
He went=hagha larh
she went=hagha larha
He goes= hagha zi
he is going=hagha rawan dey=hagha lagya dey zi
he has gone=hagha taley dey
she has gone=hagha tali da
he had gone=hagha taley woo
she had gone=hagha tali wa
subjunctive case
I wish you go=za ghwarham che ta larh/larha shey

Please note how the verb to go=tlal takes different forms in different tenses and different pronouns.

1) I heard him saying that.=ma hagha wawredo che wayal ye
2) I saw them going there.=ma haghoi woledo che halta tlal OR Ma haghoi halta pa tlalo woledal
3) I hear him talking.=za hagha awram che khabarey kawi OR Za hagha pa khabaro kawalo awram

to talk can be translated as khabarey kawal, jaghedal, ghagedal(all geo synonyms)

Please share your questions, comments and doubts.