Pashto Basic course discussion topic.

[Pukhtoon]

Let us clear the miss by asking questions and discussing the grey areas. What ever is foreign to you may be identified specifically and I will try to clarify them

I also said that Ligya yam is used rarely , for emphasis and as you said in conjugations when we compare Pashto tenses with other languages. For example in Pashto there are no continuous tenses so when one has to translate I am going, will have to use ligya yam otherwise in day to day Pashto continuous tenses are expressed by simple tenses.

Please read your fist post and there you had used Za, not MA in your sentence "Maw dodaiy rawurray woo" . But please note that noun agrees with helping verb. As dodai is a feminine word so the helping verb will be wa, not woo.

For example

ma kitab rawarhey woo=I had brought book
Ma dodai rawarhi wa = I had brouught meal.
Note rawarhey, rawarhi, woo and wa, which changes according to the gender of the noun. Kitab is masculine while dodai is feminine.

Similarly the verb changes according to number(singular/plural)
ma kitab rawarhey woo=I had brought a book
ma kitabuna rawarhi woo=I had brought books

Please note the difference of transitive and intransitive verbs.

"I was bringing" is an incomplete sentence as to bring(rawrhal) is a transitive verb and it must be followed by an object as what I was bringing?
I was bringing a book=ma yaw kitab rawarh is a complete sentence.

In Pashto ma yaw kitab rawarh can be labelled both contiuous( I was bringing a book) and simple(I bring a book). As already mentioned in rare and literal translation of I was bringing a book will be labelled as continuous Za lagya wum yaw kitab me rawarh.

The verb RAWRHAL does not change in future tense or interrogative sentences this is why I did not mention them above but Yes they are important tense and sentence in daily use
Future:
-simple.Za ba rawrham= I will bring
Perfect-ma ba rawarhey yee/ma ba rawarhey woo=I will have brought


The distinction between ماضی بعید (Past perfect tense) is Ma yaw kitab rawarhey woo and normal (simple)past is ma yaw kitab rawarh

There is a past called istimrari
I used to bring a book= ma ba yaw kitab rawarh

Imperative or commands, requests , wishes are also important
Bring the book=kitab rawrha
May you live long=ta de der umar jwandey wey

"ze rowrum?" (Should I bring) is a question which can be translated as za rawrham? or aya za rawrham? or ma la pakar di che rawrham(kana)
Intonation is important here to note for asking questions etc.

Most of what you elaborated on above I already understand, thank you for the explanation though but I wasn't unclear about them I was just providing a list of additional moods and tenses you didn't mention that I felt were equally important for those persons who might read the thread and think they are the only important tenses and moods to learn.

About the omitted nouns I do understand a sentence is incomplete without them, but when making a conjugation chart they are routinely omitted and the user can insert the nouns as they see fit. Given that I was asking about conjugation here, I omitted the nouns for that reason.

I guess the crux of everything is saying that, as an example, these two sentences in English would be said the exact same way:

1. I was reading (a) book
2. I am reading (a) book

I believe you would say that both of these sentences would either be said as "Ze yaw kitaab lawalum."

OR you would add ligya to the first sentence and the second sentence remain as "Ze yaw kitaab lawalum."

I think that sums up what your saying and I think it can be said differently.

For example, I think "What were you saying" can be said as "Si day wayil" instead of adding ligya.

Also, as to the ماضی استمراری ,this tense is closer to the past continuous and not what you mentioned in the above post. Maazeih is in the past, and istrimraareih is continuous or still happening. Something like "I was reading" I believe more accurately falls in this category, i.e., Was = Past, Reading = Continuous (the action hasn't concluded yet like it would if you said "read").

I think some conjugation charts label this as imperfect but I think it's more accurately the past continuous.

As to the gender of the noun changing the endings, I believe most casual speakers simply use the masculine in most instances, is their available a conjugation in the active voice of a verb using a noun that is feminine?

And my mistake about mistyping "ze" for "maw," in my first post.

I

[Badlun]

1. I was reading (a) book can be translated as Ma yaw kitab lwastalo or za lagya wum yaw kitab me lwastalo

2.I am reading (a) book=za yaw kitab lwalam or za lagya yam yaw kitab lwalam




YES "What were you saying" can be said as "Si day wayil"
Once again I will repeat that ligya is totally optional, rare, for emphasis only when yoiu really want to stress the continuity of the action and you can say se lagya wey wayal de?

ماضی استمراری has no parallel tense in English as such but in Latin languages it has counterparts like in Spanish YO TRABAJABA is I used to work ma ba kar kawalo while Yo estaba trabajando , I was working , ma kar kawalo or za ba lagya wum kar ba me kawalo .

Pashto is very similar to Latin based languages like Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese in grammar and has visible differences with English. Conjugation of Pashto verbs and subjunctive mood has similar patterns with Latin based languages.


As to the gender of the noun changing the endings, I believe most casual In spoken and written the agreement with gender an dnumber is very visible but some times unnoticed. For example halak larh, jinai larha (boy/girl went). In English no change but in Pashto and Latin based languages the endings usually change.

You have raised a very intersting question : Changes in verbs because of change in voice(active/passive)
Please note that in the following sentences in active voice the endings do not change with gender and number in present tense

Jinai/injlai dodai khwri=girl eats(meal)
jinai aam khwri= girl eats mango
halak dodai khwri -halak eats (meal)
halak aam khwri=boy eats mango
jinai/halak amuna khwri=girl/boy eat mangoes

In past tense endings do change

Jinai dodai ukhwarha \halak dodai ukhwarha =girl/boy ate(dodai is feminine)
jinai aam ukhorh(girl ate mango) mango is masculine
halak kitab lwali=boy reads a book(kitab is masculine)
jinai kitab lwali -girl reads a book
jinai/halak amuna ukhwarhal= girl/boy ate mangoes

see the difference endings of ukhwarha, ukhorh and ukhwarhal


In passive voice the endings change
dodai pa jinai/halak ukhwarhey shwa=meal was eaten by boy/girl(shwa is feminine ending for feminine noun dodai)
kitab pa jinai/halak walwastawaley sho =book was read by boy/girl(sho is masculine ending for masculine book)

In intransitive verbs the endings change as usual

halak khuwanzi ta larh=boy went to school
jinai khuwanzi ta larha =gilr went to school
but in present tense no change
halak zi=boy goes
jinai zi =gilr goes

[Pukhtoon]

1. I was reading (a) book can be translated as Ma yaw kitab lwastalo or za lagya wum yaw kitab me lwastalo

2.I am reading (a) book=za yaw kitab lwalam or za lagya yam yaw kitab lwalam




YES "What were you saying" can be said as "Si day wayil"
Once again I will repeat that ligya is totally optional, rare, for emphasis only when yoiu really want to stress the continuity of the action and you can say se lagya wey wayal de?

ماضی استمراری has no parallel tense in English as such but in Latin languages it has counterparts like in Spanish YO TRABAJABA is I used to work ma ba kar kawalo while Yo estaba trabajando , I was working , ma kar kawalo or za ba lagya wum kar ba me kawalo .

Pashto is very similar to Latin based languages like Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese in grammar and has visible differences with English. Conjugation of Pashto verbs and subjunctive mood has similar patterns with Latin based languages.


As to the gender of the noun changing the endings, I believe most casual In spoken and written the agreement with gender an dnumber is very visible but some times unnoticed. For example halak larh, jinai larha (boy/girl went). In English no change but in Pashto and Latin based languages the endings usually change.

You have raised a very intersting question : Changes in verbs because of change in voice(active/passive)
Please note that in the following sentences in active voice the endings do not change with gender and number in present tense

Jinai/injlai dodai khwri=girl eats(meal)
jinai aam khwri= girl eats mango
halak dodai khwri -halak eats (meal)
halak aam khwri=boy eats mango
jinai/halak amuna khwri=girl/boy eat mangoes

In past tense endings do change

Jinai dodai ukhwarha \halak dodai ukhwarha =girl/boy ate(dodai is feminine)
jinai aam ukhorh(girl ate mango) mango is masculine
halak kitab lwali=boy reads a book(kitab is masculine)
jinai kitab lwali -girl reads a book
jinai/halak amuna ukhwarhal= girl/boy ate mangoes

see the difference endings of ukhwarha, ukhorh and ukhwarhal


In passive voice the endings change
dodai pa jinai/halak ukhwarhey shwa=meal was eaten by boy/girl(shwa is feminine ending for feminine noun dodai)
kitab pa jinai/halak walwastawaley sho =book was read by boy/girl(sho is masculine ending for masculine book)

In intransitive verbs the endings change as usual

halak khuwanzi ta larh=boy went to school
jinai khuwanzi ta larha =gilr went to school
but in present tense no change
halak zi=boy goes
jinai zi =gilr goes

I think it would make things clearer if you listed all the moods and tenses you believe make up the Pashto language. Something like this:

_____Mood

• _____ Tense

It would be much appreciated if you would write the moods in English followed by the Pashto (in Pashto script and then transliterated). Manana.

[Badlun]

I think it would make things clearer if you listed all the moods and tenses you believe make up the Pashto language. Something like this:

_____Mood

• _____ Tense

It would be much appreciated if you would write the moods in English followed by the Pashto (in Pashto script and then transliterated). Manana.

This kind of discussion already exist here

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=1301&page=30

If you have time please go through this thread, quote and copy the already existing material there where you feel need of further elaboration and we will continue the discussion there

I will copy a post from this thread to show what kind of material you can find there

Conjugation-gardan of the verb Awredal-to hear or to listen

Present Simple
za awram
mong awro
hagha awri
haghoi awri
ta awrey
taso awrai

Present Perfect

ma awredali di
mong awredali di
hagha awredali di
haghey awradeli di
haghoi awredali di
ta awredali di
taso awredali di

Past simple

ma wawredalo
mong wawredalo
hagha wawredalo
haghey wawredalo
haghoi wawredalo
ta wawredalo
taso wawredalo

Past perfect

ma awredali wo
mong awredali wo...and so on

Future Simple
za ba awram
mong ba awro
hagha ba awri
haghoi ba awri
ta ba awrey
taso ba awrai

Future Perfect
ma ba awredali wi
mong ba awredali wi and so on.......

For details on the object whether to be plural or singular or feminine or masculine please see the discussion in this thread specially for perfect tenses as

ma yawa kisa awredali da but
ma dwa kisey awredali di
ma yaw khabar awredaley day
ma der khabruna awredali di
[MENTION=2]Admin Khan[/MENTION]
@Tor Khan
or other moderators
Please merge this thread with

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=1301&page=30

so that we can continue the discussion there and we do not have to copy paste stuff which already exist

[Admin Khan]

[MENTION=1034]Badlun[/MENTION]
Done.

[کیش]

let me add to this section to help with people learning the grammatical structure of Pashto.

Mood (دود) Shows distinction of forms of verb to express whether its action or state is conceived as a fact or in a wush, command, or question

they're three moods in Pashto:
I) Indicative Mood (خبري) is used for making a statement or an exclamation, or asking a question ex: day dwa mashoman lari (they have two children)
a) Declarative mood (تثريحي) constitutes a verb form(s) that provide(s) information about an event (کثکي زه په کابل کي وای I wish i were in Kabul.

III) Imperative mood (امر) is used for commands, requests, or directions.
ex: !ډوډۍ دي وخوره Eat your food!
ex: پر وخت راسه Come on time!

more verb lessons soon.

[Pukhtoon]

This kind of discussion already exist here
http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthr...t=1301&page=30

If you have time please go through this thread, quote and copy the already existing material there where you feel need of further elaboration and we will continue the discussion there

I will copy a post from this thread to show what kind of material you can find there

Conjugation-gardan of the verb Awredal-to hear or to listen

Present Simple
za awram
mong awro
hagha awri
haghoi awri
ta awrey
taso awrai

Present Perfect

ma awredali di
mong awredali di
hagha awredali di
haghey awradeli di
haghoi awredali di
ta awredali di
taso awredali di

Past simple

ma wawredalo
mong wawredalo
hagha wawredalo
haghey wawredalo
haghoi wawredalo
ta wawredalo
taso wawredalo

Past perfect

ma awredali wo
mong awredali wo...and so on

Future Simple
za ba awram
mong ba awro
hagha ba awri
haghoi ba awri
ta ba awrey
taso ba awrai

Future Perfect
ma ba awredali wi
mong ba awredali wi and so on.......

For details on the object whether to be plural or singular or feminine or masculine please see the discussion in this thread specially for perfect tenses as

ma yawa kisa awredali da but
ma dwa kisey awredali di
ma yaw khabar awredaley day
ma der khabruna awredali di
@Admin Khan
@Tor Khan
or other moderators
Please merge this thread with
http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthr...t=1301&page=30
so that we can continue the discussion there and we do not have to copy paste stuff which already exist

Thanks, I will consider this with other texts I am reviewing and attempt to find a resolution to some of the conflicting terms.

[Friend]

Badlun, your future tense is wrong. " maa ba awredali wi". The correct one is "za ba awaram"

[Badlun]

Badlun, your future tense is wrong. " maa ba awredali wi". The correct one is "za ba awaram"

Please read the post again

Simple(Indefinite) Future tense =I will hear: Za ba awram
Future Perfect Tense=I will have heard: Maa ba awredali wi

[Badlun]

let me add to this section to help with people learning the grammatical structure of Pashto.

Mood (دود) Shows distinction of forms of verb to express whether its action or state is conceived as a fact or in a wush, command, or question

they're three moods in Pashto:
I) Indicative Mood (خبري) is used for making a statement or an exclamation, or asking a question ex: day dwa mashoman lari (they have two children)
a) Declarative mood (تثريحي) constitutes a verb form(s) that provide(s) information about an event ()
b) Interrogative mood (استغهامي) is for requesting information ex: Who, what where when why (tsuk, Tse, cherta, kala, waley)

II) subjunctive mood (نا خبري) it is a mood of a verb that concernces a wish, doubt, uncerntainty, or possibility
ex: کثکي زه په کابل کي وای I wish i were in Kabul.

III) Imperative mood (امر) is used for commands, requests, or directions.
ex: !ډوډۍ دي وخوره Eat your food!
ex: پر وخت راسه Come on time!

more verb lessons soon.

Dera Manana wrora . Your description of the moods is perfect. I with your support will further explain it in coming posts.

I will request you one thing very especial that please write my Pashto examples in Pashto script.

Admn khan and Tor Khan are requested to enable Kesh wror to edit these posts so that he can write my Pashto sentences in Pashto script. I have technical problems in my computer to write in Pashto alphabet.

[Badlun]

Subjunctive mood in Pashto.

There is detailed discussion available above on Indicative mood which is the most common mood in any language. Here I will try to describe in detail Subjunctive mood in Pashto.

Subjunctive mood almost does not exist in English as a separate verb form. Except in sentences like If I were the king of England (kash che za da Inglestan bacha wey)where WERE is different from Indicative mood, in other cases Indicative mood is used for wishes, desires, prayers, hopes, fears etc. In Indicative mood the sentence will be I was king of England= za da Inglestan bacha wum

Pashto like Spanish or French has a complete distinctive mood of Subjunctive mood and verb changes in this mood.

For example
He will come tomorrow=Hagha ba saba razi is Simple Future Tense in Indicative mood but
I wish he come tomorrow= za ghwarham che hagha de saba rashi

here RASHI is the verb form for to come in Subjunctive mood. In English the verb form COME does not change while in Pashto RAZI of indicative mood changes in RASHI of subjunctive mood.

[Friend]

Please read the post again

Simple(Indefinite) Future tense =I will hear: Za ba awram
Future Perfect Tense=I will have heard: Maa ba awredali wi

I thought you are talking about simple future tense. You are right.

[Badlun]

Simple Present Subjunctive

za ghwarham che ta dodai ukhrey=I want that you take meals

hagha ghwarhi che za doctor jorh sham =He wants that I become a doctor

aya ta ghwarhey che za saba rasham=Do you want that I come tomorrow

zama da mor khwakha da che za almonz ukam =My mom wishes I pray

za yaregam che hawayee dagar ke ma na alwataka larha na shi=I fear I may not miss flight at airport.

If we compare these sentences to Simple Present Indicative then the sentences will be like this

ta dodai khwrey=you eat(take) meal(compare ukhwrey and khwrey)
za doctor jorhegam=I am becoming a doctor
za razam=I come
za almonz kamum=I pray
ma na alwataka zi =I miss flight

[کیش]

let me add to this section to help with people learning the grammatical structure of Pashto.

Mood (دود) Shows distinction of forms of verb to express whether its action or state is conceived as a fact or in a wush, command, or question

they're three moods in Pashto:
I) Indicative Mood (خبري) is used for making a statement or an exclamation, or asking a question ex: day dwa mashoman lari (they have two children)
a) Declarative mood (تثريحي) constitutes a verb form(s) that provide(s) information about an event (کثکي زه په کابل کي وای I wish i were in Kabul.

III) Imperative mood (امر) is used for commands, requests, or directions.
ex: !ډوډۍ دي وخوره Eat your food!
ex: پر وخت راسه Come on time!

more verb lessons soon.

Kinds of Verbs according to their tenor:
1) Transitive Verbs لیږنرکړ،متعدي فعل A verb that takes a direct object.
ex: ذلمی ثعر جوړوي. Zalmay composes a poem

2) Ditransitive Verbs. This kind of verb is able to take both a direct object and an indirect object
ex: ما موحمد ته وایلن وږغاوه i played the violin for mohammad
(وایلن) is the direct object and mohammad is the indirect object, taken by the ditransitive verb waghwa.

3) Intransitive verbs: a verb that does not take a direct object
ex: زه کښينستم. I sat
the intransitive verb kenastam has the subjext Za but has no object.

Auxiliary verbs coming next lesson. remember we are all students of this great language of Pashto. English is my first language and i still study it to reach perfection

[کیش]

Auxiliary Verbs: these verbs are used to in forming tenses, moods, and voices of other verbs. they help in the present and past tenses. examples of auxiliary verbs in Pakhto:

1)کول او کړل are transitive verbs which means "to do". to conjucagate perfective verbs we use Karral) and for imperfective verbs we use Kawal)

2)ثول او کیدل. means "to happen, to become." Shwal is for perfective verbs, and kedal is for imperfective verbs

ex:
ته په کالج کې وثوي، ته په کالج کښې کیږې. You are admitted to college; You were admitted in college.

i hope these makes sense and helps