Islams achilles tendon - Takfir.

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Baygham.

My immediate family does not have a stigma for Atheism, because they have now been exposed to it from multiple people.

We are a "tribal" people, we must work our way up like that.

[muhsina]

so what do u recommend. How should pashtoon address this nonsence.

As I said, It is the prime responsibility of a state [Ijtimayyiya or Imara] and that too " ISLAMIC state" [Khilafa]. So let them first

Establish Caliphate, then
have consensus on the definition of Takfeer then
Conduct "Ijam-ul-umat" [consensus of all the muslims] on the the Takfeer of a person or group or concept.

Till then NO MUSLIM GROUP,GOVT,EXISTING MUSLIM MAJORITY STATES , OR SECT HAS ANY RIGTH WHAT SO EVER TO LABEL ANY ONE AS KAFIR.

[Baygham]

As I said, It is the prime responsibility of a state [Ijtimayyiya or Imara] and that too " ISLAMIC state" [Khilafa]. So let them first

Establish Caliphate, then
have consensus on the definition of Takfeer then
Conduct "Ijam-ul-umat" [consensus of all the muslims] on the the Takfeer of a person or group or concept.

Till then NO MUSLIM GROUP,GOVT,EXISTING MUSLIM MAJORITY STATES , OR SECT HAS ANY RIGTH WHAT SO EVER TO LABEL ANY ONE AS KAFIR.

Again you are avoiding the question. I agree no one has the right to label anyone, but what if they do, then in that case what do you recommend the pashtoons should do with that person.

For example my village mullah, this morning wakes up and says that Baygham and his brothers are quilty of kufar and passess takfir on us and my cousins who have paid him the night before start shooting at me and kill people in my house.

In this situtation the method of takfir is used to kill a pashtoon. Should we as a nation/group of people allow a mullah to do this at the present time, if no, than do you recommend that in addition to going after my cousins who killed, I go after the mullah as well for having passed the takfir and allowing for this oppurtunity to the cousins. Will pashtoons who will allow my badal, should also allow my badal from the mullah in this case.

Do you agree with that.

We will discuss who should become the kalifa some other time.

[muhsina]

As it is wrong from religeous point of view to pass a death penalty on someone who exhibits KUFAR ACCORDING TO AN INDIVIDUAL ,this being the sole prerogative of the state [in addition to more sound argument of human rights,but that is a bit alien concept unfortunately for Pashtuns] hence the verdict for shooting someone should be considered as an attempt for assasination and treated accordingly by Pashtuns using badal from Mulla as well as the one who commits the assasination attempt.

[muhsina]

I mentiond the three pre requisites of capital punishment for so called apostate because as they say in hindi:

Na no mun tel hoga
na radha nachegee

[Baygham]

As it is wrong from religeous point of view to pass a death penalty on someone who exhibits KUFAR ACCORDING TO AN INDIVIDUAL ,this being the sole prerogative of the state [in addition to more sound argument of human rights,but that is a bit alien concept unfortunately for Pashtuns] hence the verdict for shooting someone should be considered as an attempt for assasination and treated accordingly by Pashtuns using badal from Mulla as well as the one who commits the assasination attempt.

So in effect, pashtoon jirgas should pass a judgement that anyone person or a group that kills or injured another pashtun under takfir, than it is the Qaams responsibility to have that group or individual punished accordingly. And finally those that incite are equally guilty as the perpetrators.

In short any killing of a pashtoon under the pretence of kufr should automatically result in pashton qaaam retribution. On this token what should be the punishment for the taliban who pass takfir on muslim pashtoons and have them killed. Should as a qaam we should avenge that.

[Wrayun]

So in effect, pashtoon jirgas should pass a judgement that anyone person or a group that kills or injured another pashtun under takfir, than it is the Qaams responsibility to have that group or individual punished accordingly. And finally those that incite are equally guilty as the perpetrators.

In short any killing of a pashtoon under the pretence of kufr should automatically result in pashton qaaam retribution. On this token what should be the punishment for the taliban who pass takfir on muslim pashtoons and have them killed. Should as a qaam we should avenge that.

The situation right now is very chaotic, you don't know who is doing what and representing who. Plus the Taliban has the upper hand because many Pukhtoons that are affected by this war have sided with them not because they agree with Talibs but they are the only other option besides joining those who have occupied their lands and are constantly bombarding them day and night.

In this scenario the Talibs have an upper hand because anyone labeled a kafir or apostate will face Pukhtoon retribution. So that very retribution you speak of is already hijacked. It will remain like this till the situation improves and the war ends. The longer this war plays, the stronger Talibs get. It's common sense.

[khushal]

Sangar doesnt represent the Taliban, He only represents Arab interests. He has said nothing that interests his fellow afghans or his fellow Muslims. The only thing that comes out of his mouth is usually in the interests of Arabs. This new generation of Talib leaders are more arabized and has no respect for pushtun customs or traditions. They have no respect for Islam. How can you convert a person if you tell him/her, that once you enter, there is no getting out. Islam is not the Mafia.

People like Sangar is harming Islam and dont even realize it. People like him think the taliban are gaining ground because of their radical approach and they are on the right path. The only reason the taliban are gaining ground is because of the pashtunwali code of badal, if there was no pashtunwali, they would be nothing.

Sanagar, go read the quaran, and stop listening to these arabs that have come to pashtun land for refuge because they are too cowardly to fight in their own homeland for their freedom.

[Baygham]

Sangar doesnt represent the Taliban, He only represents Arab interests. He has said nothing that interests his fellow afghans or his fellow Muslims. The only thing that comes out of his mouth is usually in the interests of Arabs. This new generation of Talib leaders are more arabized and has no respect for pushtun customs or traditions. They have no respect for Islam. How can you convert a person if you tell him/her, that once you enter, there is no getting out. Islam is not the Mafia.

People like Sangar is harming Islam and dont even realize it. People like him think the taliban are gaining ground because of their radical approach and they are on the right path. The only reason the taliban are gaining ground is because of the pashtunwali code of badal, if there was no pashtunwali, they would be nothing.

Sanagar, go read the quaran, and stop listening to these arabs that have come to pashtun land for refuge because they are too cowardly to fight in their own homeland for their freedom.

the question is what to do with people like snagar who calls all others wajibulkatal and having takfeer on them. Thousands have been killed by taliban, its not a hypothetical situation. We can hijack this hijacked weapon back from the taliban.

Plain and simple.

anyone that passess takfir on a pashtoon should be shot.