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Islams achilles tendon - Takfir.

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  • Islams achilles tendon - Takfir.

    In Islamic law, takfir or takfeer (تكفير) refers to apostasy in Islam, or the practice of declaring oneself an unbeliever or kafir (pl. kuffār), previously considered Muslim. The act which precipitates takfir is termed the mukaffir. (wikipedia)

    In the presence of numerous sects in Islam, like in any religion, the battle ground between these sects, for the souls of the faithful is at times quite tense. While most other religions have stopped resorting to death and destruction of the other sect of the same religion in the 21st century and even allow for peacefull coexistence with the apostate, such is not the case with Muslims.

    The reasons for this may be multiple. Overall most muslim sects believe in some form of Takfir. The subsequent punishment, though very harsh, by contemprary standards in the world, has much precedent in Sunnah (Mohammadan actions) and thus the appeal to them is quite easy.

    In the presense of such allowance, takfir and its associated misdemenours Bidah'th and other charges of collusion with infedils citing quranic verses of not befriending non-muslims make for ideal atmosphere for political use of these resources.

    These intimidatory tactics allow for the powerful to become more powerful and even momentary shifts in power can be devastating. A one day rule of opposing army of a town where the inhabitants have been deamed 'murtads' can have devastating consequences with complete annihilation of a family, town or even large communities.

    In the 21st century in Pakhtun land for the pashtoons it is posing the single most major obstacle in the way of progress, peace, rule of law and stability.

    I would like my brothers and sisters on this site to discuss how we can counter this menace in our society. I will post my thoughts as we go along.

  • #2
    Interesting topic. It ties beautifully to our other topics.

    How would you deal with this issue, Baygham. Which Islamic sect would you, as in Baygham, consult in order to get a good understanding of Islam. Would you fall in the pit and start mocking people due to their beliefs being call "deviant," and ostracize them?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Dust View Post
      Interesting topic. It ties beautifully to our other topics.

      How would you deal with this issue, Baygham. Which Islamic sect would you, as in Baygham, consult in order to get a good understanding of Islam. Would you fall in the pit and start mocking people due to their beliefs being call "deviant," and ostracize them?
      I recommend a complete moratorium on the activity with severe consequences for its use by any and all. Use of the pashtoon jirga system in this regard will be very usefull.
      Last edited by Baygham; 09-21-2010, 02:00 PM.

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      • #4
        Nobody has the right in Islam to put a moratorium to this. Of course it doesn't mean that everyone has the right to call another person kafir and kill him. Nobody is allowed to kill another human being, without being there an Islamic authority, rule of law (shariah) and courts. But when a legitimate resistance movement (for example Taliban) with an Amir Ul-mumineen issues a fatwa, or legal opinion then it is another story. Their country is attacked, resources plundered and muslims being killed. They have every right to defend themselves. They are allowed according to the shariah to fight the disbeliever occupiers and their helpers.
        Last edited by Guest; 09-21-2010, 01:59 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Maiwand View Post
          Nobody has the right in Islam to put a moratorium to this. Of course it doesn't mean that everyone has the right to call another person kafir and kill him. Nobody is allowed to kill another human being, without being there an Islamic authority, rule of law (shariah) and courts. But when a legitimate resistance movement (for example Taliban) with an Amir Ul-mumineen issues a fatwa, or legal opinion then it is another story. Their country is attacked, resources plundered and muslims being killed. They have every right to defend themselves. They are allowed according to the shariah to fight the disbelievers amond the occupiers and their helpers.
          You see Dust, how ardently it is defended by the taliban. Its there achilles tendon as well. The source of Taliban power. They know it and we know it. Thats why jirgas in pashtoon land have been attacked by suicide bombers and they fear just such a decree from the population.

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          • #6
            افغان ولس دچالورى ونيوداسلامي امارت که ..............!!!؟

            سه شنبه, 21 September 2010 08:55 -




            سره لدې چې ديونامااونوروغربي اوداخلي هغواداروچې دوږي د٢٧نيټې دولسي جرګې دتش په نامه ټاکنودترسره کولوپه خاطرګمارل شوي وې ، داخبره لاله وړاندې منلې وه چې دامنيتي ستونزوله کبله دافغانستان په ديرش فيصده ځمګه ددغوټاکنودبري لپاره شرايط اماده کولاى شي ، خودانتخاباتوپه ورځ نړۍ اوافغان ولس وليدل چې دديرش فيصدو اټکل هم تش خيال اوپرسوده فکروو ځکه په سلوکې تر لس فيصده هم کمو خلکووکولاى شول چې دويرې ، ډاراوتذويرپه ډکه فضاکې خپلې رايې وکاروي اودامريکاپه خندنۍ ډرامې کې ونډه واخلي !

            په دې سربيره چې ددغو جعلي ټاکنودکاميابولوپه خاطرامريکااومتحدينويې نيږدې دوه سوه ميلونه ډالره ، په امنيتي تدابيرو، بډو، رشوت اونوروهغولاروچاروولګول ، چې ددغې منفورې اوحلقه بګوشې پروسې دبري لپاره دوى په نظرکې نيولي وواوهم يې په دغه ورځ درى لکه بهرنى اوداخلي ګوډاګي عسکرګمارلي ووترڅودهيوادپه کچه دکم شمیرانتخاباتي مراکزوامنيت خوندي اوخلکوته په بشپړه توګه درايواچولولپاره زمينه مساعده کړي ، خودلوى خداى ج نصرت اوله اسلامي امارت سره دمجاهدولس اوږه پراوږه مرسته وه چې ددوه سوه ميلوني لګښت اودرى لکه مجهزوقواووباوجودهم دغه ټاکنې له څومحدووښارونوپرته نورې ټولې درهم برهم ، نيمه خوااوله رسواپايلوسره مخ شوې
            که له نوروسلګونوژونديومثالونوتيرشواوتنهادغزني ولايت ديوې لویې ولسوالى اودلوګرولايت ديوه پرنفوسه کلي دانتخاباتي مراکزوڅرنګوالى اوحالت وڅيړو، نودعقل اودرايت څښتنان به په خپله قضاوت وکړي چې ددغسې ټاکنومشروعيت اودشرميدلوپايلوپه نتيجه کې راتلونکى پارلمان به څه حيثيت اوارزښت ولري
            هو، دغزني داندړوولسوالى چې له درى لکوزيات وګړي لري ، خپله دهغې ولسوالى دانتخاباتومسئولينواوڅارونکوپرون ومنله چې لدې سره سره چې مراکزدورځې ترپايه پرانيستي وو، ولې ايله درى رايي ددوى صندقونوته غورځيدلې وې ، په همدې ترتيب ، دلوګردپادخواب شانه کلى چې له مرکزپل علم سره شاوخوادرى کلوميتره واټن لري اودوګړوشميره يې له ديرشوزروډيره ده ، خوله دغه شميرې نه ايله دوه نيم سوه رايي ، هغه هم دقبيلوي خواخوږى اودبډوپه زوراولالچ درايوپه صندقونوکې وغورځول شوې
            په همدې ډول دهیواد له مختلفو سیمو نه داراپورونه وو چې دشاوخوا ۳۶۰ ولسولیو له جملې نه په ۱۶۲ ولسوالیو کې اصلا دانتخاباتو مرکزونه نه وو پرانیستل شوي او۱۲۶۰ ټاکنیز مرکزونه دورځي تر یوولسو بجو وړاندي وتړل شول او پر پاتي مرکزونو دمجاهدینو له لوری کامیاب بریدونه ترسره شول چې درایې اچونې بهیر یې ګډوډ کړدهیواد په زیاتره سیمو کې نه تنها خلکو په ټاکنو کې ګدون ونه کړ بلکي اکثریت خلک له ټاکنو سره دمخالفت او احتجاج په توګه له خپلوکورونوڅخه را ونه وتل ، دانتخاباتو دټاکلی وخت دورځې څلور بجې د پایته رسیدو وروسته کله چې دمحدودو ښارونو دانتخاباتي مرکزونو درايي اچونې صندوقونه دمرکز پر لور انتقالیدل په ځینو سیمو کې دمجاهدینو تر غلچې بریدونو لاندي راغلل چې اچول شوي رايې او صندقونه یې وسوځول شول!
            اوس دې نړۍ ، يوناماآودڅارډلې په خپله قضاوت وکړي چې دغسې جعلي اوله هر لحاظه ناکامي ټاکنې په کومه تله تلي اوکوم مشروعيت ورکوي اودادې هم په ډاګه کړي چې دافغانستان دقاطع اکثریت اوازاو عینې واقعیتونوته نظر کوي اوکه داجیرواجرتي رسنیو، وار له مخه جوړي شویې تبصري اوله ځانه جوړشوي خبرونه معتبر بولي او ددي خبري وضاحت دي هم و کړی چي افغان ولس په قاطع ډول دچالورى ونيو، دافغانستان داسلامي امارت ، که دامريکا، يونامااودکابل دګوډاګۍ ادارې !!

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            • #7
              We are on to something here, deer ala

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              • #8
                Could someone translate Maiwand's article, please.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Afghanlady
                  This article touches on many aspects of our lives and what's visible on PF.

                  We have different views on Islam, but we claim we are right, others are wrong.
                  The funny part is when you have ban-wagon jumpers, who don't have an opinion, who must wait to see which way the tide will shift to mark their "thanks."

                  This is so annoying. People, please don't be dishonest and just agree with someone because you have the same belief. This is so shallow.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Maiwand View Post
                    Nobody has the right in Islam to put a moratorium to this. Of course it doesn't mean that everyone has the right to call another person kafir and kill him. Nobody is allowed to kill another human being, without being there an Islamic authority, rule of law (shariah) and courts. But when a legitimate resistance movement (for example Taliban) with an Amir Ul-mumineen issues a fatwa, or legal opinion then it is another story. Their country is attacked, resources plundered and muslims being killed. They have every right to defend themselves. They are allowed according to the shariah to fight the disbeliever occupiers and their helpers.
                    Self-defense is a totally different matter. The problem is that not everyone considers Mullah Umar as their "Islamic" leader. So, why does his fatwa stand against someone else, and the other person's fatwa does not stand against Mullah Umar?

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                    • #11
                      From my conclusions, everyone who calls themselves a "Muslim" is a kafir.

                      Muslims usually categorize themselves as per a school of thought, whether Shia or Sunni, which further branches off into different sects. There is no one sect in Islam who has not been called a kafir. Not one single sect. If there is one sect who has not been called a kafir, I would like to know.

                      In conclusion, with what audacity do you people call each other kafir? What is the gain in this? Technically speaking, there are no Muslims in the world: as per this definition.

                      If religion is meant to bring someone closer to God, then why does it matter which path you take? I am pretty sure that there is not only one way to get from A to B; I am pretty sure that there are many ways.
                      Last edited by Guest; 09-21-2010, 03:54 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dust View Post
                        From my conclusions, everyone who calls themselves a "Muslim" is a kafir.

                        Muslims usually categorize themselves as per a school of thought, whether Shia or Sunni, which further branches off into different sects. There is no one sect in Islam who has not been called a kafir. Not one single sect. If there is one sect who has not been called a kafir, I would like to know.

                        In conclusion, with what audacity do you people call each other kafir? What is the gain in this? Technically speaking, there are no Muslims in the world: as per this definition.

                        If religion is meant to bring someone closer to God, then why does it matter which path you take? I am pretty sure that there is not only one way to get from A to B; I am pretty sure that there are many ways.
                        You are getting there. If this was the only problem it would be tolerable. Couple this with mandatory punishment and the complete acceptance of pain inflicted on kafir and you have a complete chaotic society.

                        Hence my initial assertion that you so vehemently ridiculed, that islam is incompatable with rational thought. Now you are saying Islam is imcompatable with being muslim. LOL - same thing, what can be more irrational, than to disqualify oneself by the same principles that qualify you.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Baygham View Post
                          You are getting there. If this was the only problem it would be tolerable. Couple this with mandatory punishment and the complete acceptance of pain inflicted on kafir and you have a complete chaotic society.

                          Hence my initial assertion that you so vehemently ridiculed, that islam is incompatable with rational thought. Now you are saying Islam is imcompatable with being muslim. LOL - same thing, what can be more irrational, than to disqualify oneself by the same principles that qualify you.
                          Yeah, Muslims have made a mockery of themselves. I blame their leadership for teaching blind faith.

                          But the question that remains: what does their scripture teach about this?

                          Baygham, have you read the life of Muhammad? Honest question.

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                          • #14
                            Takfir throughout so called Muslim history has always been the responsibility of state not of some hyper excited ,egocentric,sex maniac, politically biased , pshychos called Ulema and even in that case has been controversial and debatable [due to absence of Ijma].

                            It is a bitter reality that naive people like Maiwand and other Mujahideen on PF would be considered as rag tag even by the Ulema [who are just some arrogant, sex maniac clones] of the sacred cities of Makkah and Medina looking down upon them as some begging azam guys while our naive and sincere brothers have taken the responsiblity of imposing their version of religion [Calipahte] on the whole damn world to make them our masters.

                            Da sada dost na okhyar dukhman khe wee.
                            Last edited by Guest; 09-21-2010, 05:01 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dust View Post
                              Yeah, Muslims have made a mockery of themselves. I blame their leadership for teaching blind faith.

                              But the question that remains: what does their scripture teach about this?

                              Baygham, have you read the life of Muhammad? Honest question.
                              Yes and much more, religious education is part of growing up in Pakhtunkwha, And to refute it you have to dig deeper.

                              Leaders have little to do with it. Islam provides oppurtunity for exploitation and is thus exploited. Other religions have their own short commings and people exploit these from time to time. Sensible cultures go through a process of refermation and change. In islam that is difficult hence the mess. It can be a great religion again, if we cut this voilence out of it. And the source of this voilence is the concept of Takfir.

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