Shia Islam for Dummies: Ask Those who Know

[شمله ور خراساني]

Shamla Khurasani,

Refute him with their book "Kaafi Kulaini" and try to know his stance about Imam Kulaini/Kulangi himself and his beliefs.

I don't have much time or i would have pulled this thread longer myself.

no. I am not going to do that. Let him present his case first.

He keeps dodging my question.

Once he gathers enough courage to answer my question, then I will provide evidence against him.

[king-zazai]

In case you didn't notice bro that I said I will not waste my time or energy answering "copy/paste" questions. This is not my first time arguing with you guys, I know everything that you gonna present here. The same copy/pasting everywhere. So I will someone just copy paste questions and stuff then good luck with that because I will just ignore them. Just like you, I don't have time for babish-talk. I was looking for a serious person, so far, found none. Except that Baidariwal bro, his question was direct and to the point without copy/pasting YET.

you are here 2 "clear misconceptions" right so just answer the questions regarding anything about shias

and we can say SOOOO many wrong things about shias and their beliefs but how come you cant say anything about sunni's and their beliefs?...............cause their is nun

[Roshina]

In case you didn't notice bro that I said I will not waste my time or energy answering "copy/paste" questions. This is not my first time arguing with you guys, I know everything that you gonna present here. The same copy/pasting everywhere. So I will someone just copy paste questions and stuff then good luck with that because I will just ignore them. Just like you, I don't have time for babish-talk. I was looking for a serious person, so far, found none. Except that Baidariwal bro, his question was direct and to the point without copy/pasting YET.

Bangash gula, I'm happy to hear that you're not willing to respond to copy-pasted material. It's a headache doing so, anyway, and it's unfair because while YOU take your precious time responding to each claim made against you, those who think they know Islam and every sect within Islam well enough to debate non-Sunnis' perceptions of Islam are merely copying and pasting stuff from random sources. This is not fair to you, and you should not have to go through this.

There's unfortunately a lot of hatred against Shiism. Funniest thing is, on many hateful so-called "Islamic" websites, you see things like: "Women in Islam" as one section and then "Women in Shiism" as another section. Like, what the hell? What does that mean? Why not "Women in Sunnism," then, if Shiism?

It's a low attempt of theirs to make themselves appear more "authentic" and more "original" than non-Sunnis, but it never succeeds in convincing me. I'm still surprised that so many people find it convincing. When will we learn how to read critically?

Anyway, I am posting this only to encourage you to keep on sharing whatever you have to share about Shiites and Shiism with us, and I hope that you will not stoop to the level that most here have by berating your faith and beliefs. Let them say whatever they want about Shiism and Shiites, and unless they ask you questions in a decent manner or make comments that need confirmation and your beliefs are not mocked in any way, I suggest you continue ignoring them. This discussion should be between you and them, NOT between you and those who have written the lengthy articles that are being pasted here that most likely are not even read by your average Sunni.

You might also be interested in seeing the following threads, all of which are about Shiism or Shiites:
~ http://www.pashtunforums.com/religio...th-truth-1986/
~ http://www.pashtunforums.com/religio...at-mutah-1835/
~ http://www.pashtunforums.com/religio...t-followed-35/ (This one doesn't have to do with Shiites alone)
~ http://www.pashtunforums.com/religio...-beliefs-2429/

As you can see, most of those threads were initiated by sanctimonious Muslims, who have somehow convinced themselves and a select group of misled people that they are on the right path and everyone else is a deviant. And every single one of those threads includes these maddening articles written by Shiite-haters who clearly have NO understanding of Shiism, of Arabic, OR even of the history of Islam, and one can only shake one's head at their ignorance and intolerance.

So it's good to see an initiate BY a Shiite himself, attempting to clear up some misconceptions. Heck, I grew up to think that Shiites were some creepy non-Muslim people who were just desperate to be declared Muslims, but now, after having studied Shiism FROM Shiite perspectives, I am very happy to say that all the misconceptions I had have been cleared up, and I no longer believe I'm any better than a Shiite, or on a better path than a Shiite just because I was born into a family that is culturally Sunni.

Peace.

[Haider Bangash 2.0]

you are here 2 "clear misconceptions" right so just answer the questions regarding anything about shias

and we can say SOOOO many wrong things about shias and their beliefs but how come you cant say anything about sunni's and their beliefs?...............cause their is nun

Yes dear, I am here to "clear misconceptions" not to convince you that Shia Islam is the true Islam. For, I don't even care what or who you follow.
If that makes you happy or feel any more secure, then I happily accept that I "cant say anything ['wrong things'] about sunni's and their beliefs?...............cause their is nun". LOL

[شمله ور خراساني]

I have a few questions too:

- Do you believe that Quran is corrupted?

- Do you believe that your 12 Imams had the knowledge of the unseen?

- Do you believe that who-ever does not believe in your 12 Imams is a kaafir?

- Do you believe that Fatimah Zahra radiallahu anha was a Goddess made of light?

- Do you believe that Shi'ite Ayatullah's can communicate with the hidden 12 Imam ( Mahdi)?

- Do you believe that all of the prophets saww companions were hypocrites and have disbelieved after his death except a few?

- Do you curse the prophets saww companions every time you pray?

- Do you think that all non-Shi'ites hate Ahlul Bayt?

[Haider Bangash 2.0]

Bangash gula, I'm happy to hear that you're not willing to respond to copy-pasted material. It's a headache doing so, anyway, and it's unfair because while YOU take your precious time responding to each claim made against you, those who think they know Islam and every sect within Islam well enough to debate non-Sunnis' perceptions of Islam are merely copying and pasting stuff from random sources. This is not fair to you, and you should not have to go through this.

Peace.

Thanks for the encouragement. There is no point in arguing with people who don't even have the slightest idea of what they are talking about and who base their arguments solely upon copy/pasted-material. I mean, you take your effort to answer some of their questions then they will copy/paste 100 more questions totally unrelated to the topic. Anyways, I have presented to you (members here) the core beliefs of Shias (see above) in response to the fairy-tale number one (so far) that Shias worship "horse". If you have any serious questions (YOUR QUESTIONS, that comes into YOUR MIND; not questions from copy-paste-to-prove-shias-kaffir.com), then feel free to ask here. My Univ. classes are starting from tomorrow, so if I don't answer on time, just bear with me. Thanks

[Haider Bangash 2.0]

I have a question respected Haider

Yes dear Shlombay, ask away.

[Haider Bangash 2.0]

I have a few questions too:

- Do you believe that Quran is corrupted?

- Do you believe that your 12 Imams had the knowledge of the unseen?

- Do you believe that who-ever does not believe in your 12 Imams is a kaafir?

- Do you believe that Fatimah Zahra radiallahu anha was a Goddess made of light?

- Do you believe that Shi'ite Ayatullah's can communicate with the hidden 12 Imam ( Mahdi)?

- Do you believe that all of the prophets saww companions were hypocrites and have disbelieved after his death except a few?

- Do you curse the prophets saww companions every time you pray?

- Do you think that all non-Shi'ites hate Ahlul Bayt?

Now you are asking straightforwardly, and I will answer straightforwardly .

- Do you believe that Quran is corrupted?
NO, whoever believes this cannot remain a Muslim.

- Do you believe that your 12 Imams had the knowledge of the unseen?
YES, I do believe that. I also believe that Prophet (SAW) had/has ILM-E-GHAIB given by the MARZI of Allah.

- Do you believe that who-ever does not believe in your 12 Imams is a kaafir?
NO, the general requirement for being a Muslim is the belief in Allah and His Prophet Muhammad(SAW).

- Do you believe that Fatimah Zahra radiallahu anha was a Goddess made of light?
NO, we are not Greeks or Hindus; we do not associate anyone with Allah Almighty.

- Do you believe that Shi'ite Ayatullah's can communicate with the hidden 12 Imam ( Mahdi)?
NO, I don't think so.

- Do you believe that all of the prophets saww companions were hypocrites and have disbelieved after his death except a few?
NO, also you should rewrite this one, I didn't really get the last part.

- Do you curse the prophets saww companions every time you pray?
NO, I do not curse the Prophet (SAW)'s companions, for I praise them. But I DO CURE THE ENEMIES OF MUHAMMAD (SAW) WA ALE (AS) MUHAMMAD (SAW).

- Do you think that all non-Shi'ites hate Ahlul Bayt?
NO, I don't think so. I assume by non-shiites you mean non-shia muslims?

[Haider Bangash 2.0]

What do you Shias think of us sunnis. I am interested on how they view us.

Thanks Haider Bangash.

Hmm, elaborate a little bit please. Because if by Sunni you mean WAHABI, then I consider you Shia-Hating, Dushmane Ahlybait (The Holy Household Of Muhammad [SAW] ), and rightly so, and you may call yourself a Muslims (technically which would be right) but I would consider you as worst then Kaffir in terms of your actions (these views are MY PERSONAL VIEWS). But if by Sunni you mean the typical non-wahabi-brainwashed Sunni Muslim then I consider you my brother.

[Michin Khel]

I have a question. Why do Shias hit themselves and bring pain upon themselves?

Sadism?

[Michin Khel]

Shia pashtuns of bangash and turi tribes are the worst pashtuns i have encountered so far. They have no role in pashtuniyat, they keep themeselves distant from other pashtuns awo pa makho ye nahosat wi awo badan na ye gund boi zi.
Both bangash and turi are actually qizalbash of iran.

[Haider Bangash 2.0]

Shia pashtuns of bangash and turi tribes are the worst pashtuns i have encountered so far. They have no role in pashtuniyat, they keep themeselves distant from other pashtuns awo pa makho ye nahosat wi awo badan na ye gund boi zi.
Both bangash and turi are actually qizalbash of iran.

Di noro wruno khatir da gani wala dase jawob me darkare wo che tol umar be de yaad satal. @#@$@@# Matongia

[Abu Hurayrah]

First of all Dear Hurayra, I never even said anything about Matam, so what are you talking about?

I confused you with Dreamer who said Matam was haraam. I am sorry for that. Should not matter, it is ontopic.

I think it is neccessary to put in into simple terms.

You post an aya which is about Bani Israel and tell us, this is about the imams.
You post a non complete aya about Ibarhim alayhisalam and tell us, this is about imams.

I asked you a very simple question, and by the way, nothing from my post was a copy paste, so please do not act like it is a copy paste by ignoring it.

This aya I posted

Quran: Surah Al Furqaan:
And whoever repents and does good has truly turned to Allah with an (acceptable) conversion; Those who witness no falsehood, and, if they pass by futility, they pass by it with honorable (avoidance); Those who, when they are admonished with the Signs of their Lord, droop not down at them as if they were deaf or blind; Those who say: ‘Our Lord, grant us the coolness of our eyes in our wives and children, and make us leaders {imams} of the pious.

Here Allah swt is referring to the aa'm people, in general, they can all become imams ? By the difinition of the shia creed, not anyone can become an imam, Am I right? Yes I am, they are BORN as imams, and they are higher in position then prophets in shi'ism.

The reason I showed you that the word imam can have different meaning was because you where taking every verse out of context and was feeding us with the so called shia imam evidence from the Qur'an. You have showed none.

And the aya you have cut,

Surah al Baqarah

And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you a leader for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."


==

Look above, I do not know wether it was taken out intentionally, I will not falsely accuse you insha allah. This verse, again, is not prove for Imamat, in contrary, it is evidence against imamat.

What is the opposite of ''Dhaalimun'' ? Allah dismisses Haran from the position, because he belonged to the wrongdoers. And again, nowhere we read anything about 12 shia imams as a concept. And the reason why the son of Ibrahim alayhisalam for instance was not excused, was that he belonged to the disbelievers, and not because his DNA was not good enough to be an imam. If he did not disbelieve, then Allah would not count him among the wrongdoers, and he would include him with the ''leaders'' of the righteous.

As I said, your imams are born like imams and are ''ma'sum' explain what Allah says in Surah Furqaan:



Quran: Surah Al Furqaan:
And whoever repents and does good has truly turned to Allah with an (acceptable) conversion; Those who witness no falsehood, and, if they pass by futility, they pass by it with honorable (avoidance); Those who, when they are admonished with the Signs of their Lord, droop not down at them as if they were deaf or blind; Those who say: ‘Our Lord, grant us the coolness of our eyes in our wives and children, and make us leaders {imams} of the pious.

Like I asked you so many direct questions and you have answered none. Let me try again, but one topic at a time. Okay you think that the narration in Bukhari is not about Shia Imams, okay great, but then I ask, can you please show me your take on those narrations, who do you think that narration was for? Could you give me some name, place etc?

The answer I have posted in my very first post, The narration is about 12 muslim leaders, or amirs. Some scolars say that six of them are named, till Umar ibn Abdul Aziz, in sight of the other narration about the Khilafah which would stand for 30 years and the kingdom. The others are not known, except Al Mahdi. And why didnt you respond to the narration from Sahih muslim about the 12 hypocrites?

[Michin Khel]

@#@$@@# Matongia

Matongia means ******* or harami, You are calling me names. You were talking about religous stuff now instantly you are resort to name calling...this is the imaan level of a shia.

I have sit to shia sermon in disguise, man they were calling names to hazrat ayesha, hazrat umar....nawuzbillah

[Palwasha]

Asalaamu'alaykum Haider, welcome back to PF.

Never knew you wre a shia3, I have a few questions, if you don't mind answering? Firstly, what differs from your personal religous beliefs to those of sunni's?

(Khaney.)

- Do you believe that your 12 Imams had the knowledge of the unseen?
YES, I do believe that. I also believe that Prophet (SAW) had/has ILM-E-GHAIB given by the MARZI of Allah.

"With Him are the Keys of the Ghayb; non knows them but He."

(Quran 6:59)

I can go on?

- Do you curse the prophets saww companions every time you pray?
NO, I do not curse the Prophet (SAW)'s companions, for I praise them. But I DO CURE THE ENEMIES OF MUHAMMAD (SAW) WA ALE (AS) MUHAMMAD (SAW).

Who do you consider as the enemies of the Prophet (SAW)?