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Originally posted by شمله ور خراساني
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read my post carefully and ull see why he uses them.... i wont repeat myself againFrater aliquis in fide nec fratrem humanitatis
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question is for bangash ....
you said ....
" We believe that All the messengers were infallible and were from among His good servants, the best among best of his creations. We believe that Allah sent some 124,000 Prophets and that Hazrat Muhammad (SAW) IS his Last Messenger."
how do you "rank" the 12 imams in regards to the prophets (not only prophet Mohammad SAW, but other prophets) ... according to you, do the shias give more importance to other prophets or to imams?
Give a rough rank ... sort of like for example
-prophet Mohammadd (SAW)
- Hazrat Ali (RZ)?, other prophets maybe? other imams?
something rough like that please and thanksComment
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Rasools
Nabies
ImamsFrater aliquis in fide nec fratrem humanitatis
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thanks dreamer, but i guess you didn't read the first thingOriginally posted by Baidariwal View Post
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We should see Bangash as a fellow Pashtun not by his faith.
Both Sunnis and Shias have faults. In My view, both remind me of two fairies fighting over a piece of cake which is a invisible and illogical.
Pashtun Shias have had the worst brunt of this Islamist War. They have been attacked by Pakistan Army and by Sunni Militants who sadly are Pashtuns themselves.
Alot of Sunni mullahs and clerics in Pakistan have been given the freedom by ISI and government to insult, attack and kill Shias to feed their lust and thirst for bigotry and intolarance.
I welcome roara! I love bangash!Comment
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Exactly zma vroara. We are the same blood and Same people. Why should we kill eachother to please Arabs and their supporters.Originally posted by Sher Khan
I hate Hakeemullah for his support on attacks on our Pashtuns from those Areas. These people never represent our peaceful and respectable Mahsud tribe. I would never shake the hand of a Pashtun who calls for the killing of fellow Pashtuns.
We all need to let go of this Relgionous loyality card and start uniting ourselves through National Unity.
Kind RegardsComment
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Can you explain, why these big Shia scolars see Maatam, and specially, beating oneself till bleeding and getting lightly injured as a Mustahabb act?
If your reffering to matam I believe the ayatollahs have rules this haram
In our opinion since Aba-Abdillah al-Hussain alayhis-salam is Thar-Allah, the Blood of Allah, then it would be appropriate, but in fact imperative that for the Blood of Allah, the blood of the creatures of Allah is shed. Therefore not only Qama-Zani is permissible, but it is also regarded as one of the Sha'a'er and it has great, and extensive Thawab (reward).
The Founder of the current Hawzah in the holy city of Qum.
“The hitting of swords on the heads (causing bleeding) is alright (allowed) provided there is no harm to the person doing this. Furthermore no one has the right to prohibit this (hitting the head with sword). In fact all kinds of TA’ZIAH – mourning – for SEYYED AL-SHUHADA’ – Imam Hussain – may our souls be sacrificed for him, are MUSTAHAB – desirable deeds.”
The above Fatwa by al-Imam al-Sheikh Abdul Kareem al-Ha’ery was endorsed and signed by the following eminent Maraje’:
*
Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Sheikh Muhammad al-Araki,
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Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad Ridha al-Gulpaygani,
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Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Shahab-el-Deen al-Mar’ashi al-Najafi,
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Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Hassan al-Tabataba’e al-Qummi,
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Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad al-Waheedi,
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Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Mirza Jawaad al-Tabrizi,
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Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad Saadiq al-Rouhani,
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Ayatollah al-Udhma Muhammad Mahdi al-Lankaroudi,
And many other Maraje’ and eminent scholars . . .
Al-Imam al-Sheikh Muhammad Hussain al-Naa’ini,
The teacher of the Maraje’ of the holy city of Najaf.
“There is no doubt as to the permissibility of the beating of the chest and the face with the hands to the point of redness or blackness (of the chest or the face). This is also extended to the lashing of the shoulders and the back with chains to the extent mentioned (above), and even if this led to bleeding. As for causing the bleeding of the head by sword beating, this is also allowed provided it does not lead to endangering harm, such as unstoppable bleeding or harm to the scull, etc. as it is known amongst the experts in doing this (hitting on the head).”
The above Fatwa by al-Imam al-Sheikh Muhammad Hussain al-Naa’ini was endorsed and signed by the following eminent Maraje’:
* Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Mohsen al-Hakim,
* Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad Kaadhem al-Shari’atMadari,
* Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Abd-el-A’la al-Sabzewary,
* Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Abul-Qassim al-Kho’i,
* Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad Ridha al-Gulpaygani,
* Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Ali al-Hussaini al-Seestani,
* Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid Muhammad Saadiq al-Rouhani,
* Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Mirza Jawaad al-Tabrizi,
* Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Sheikh Hussain al-Waheed al-Khurasani,
And many other Maraje’ and eminent scholars . . .
Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid al-Kho’i
The former leader of the Hawzah of the holy city of Najaf.
Question: Is there any problem with causing the bleeding of the head – TATBIR – as it is practiced, to express one’s grief about the martyrdom of our Imam Hussain peace be upon him, assuming there is going to be no permanent harm?
Answer:
There is no problem with that, given the assumption made in the question, and Allah knows best.
Question:
You stated that there is no problem in causing the bleeding of the head – known as TATBIR – if it does not lead to harm. It is said that it is not more than a permissible act, then can TATBIR be MUSTAHAB – desirable – if the intention was the upholding and honouring the Sha’a’er – signs of Allah – and sympathy with the Ahl-ul-Bayt, peace be upon them?
Answer:
Most probably Allah Almighty would give thawab – reward (the individual) – for sympathising with the Ahl-ul-Bayt if the intention is sincere.
Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid al-Seestani
The current leader of the Hawzah of the holy city of Najaf.
Question:
What is the ruling regarding the lashing with chains, chest beating, and walking on fire on the occasion of mourning the martyrdom of Imam Hussain peace be upon him?
Answer:
If (these are) not associated with extreme harm or loss of limb, there is no objection.
Question:
What is the ruling regarding wearing black, and chest beating when commemorating the martyrdom of Imam Hussain peace be upon him, as well as other infallible Imams peace be upon them?
Answer:
This is permissible, and in fact this is regarded as one of the best means of seeking nearness to Allah, since it is upholding and honouring the Sha’a’er of Allah Almighty. [This is a reference to the Qur’anic Ayah 22:32. – translator.]
Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Imam al-Seyyid al-Shirazi
Question:
Some individuals say that I do not see shedding my tears as enough to express my grief for Imam Hussain (AS), his household and his followers on the day of Ashura. So is hitting myself with sword and injuring myself is allowed?
Answer:
The Hussaini Sha’a’er, including TATBIR, are some of the RAAJIH issues. TATBIR is a MUSTAHAB deed, unless it leads to death, loss of limb, or loss of faculties. (RAAJIH means MUSTAHAB that could become WAJIB depending on the circumstances - translator.).
Question:
What is your opinion regarding hitting the head with sword – TATBIR – on the day of Ashura whether or not it harms the individual?
Answer:
The most common and widely known opinion of the Fuqaha (scholars) is that the desirability (of TATBIR) is in it not being extremely harmful.
Question:
If one engages in the program of TA’ZIAH for Imam Hussain (AS), and goes on to serve the program of TA’ZIAH but does not do TATBIR, is he regarded as a sinner, who deserves to be humiliated?
Answer:
TATBIR is a desirable act, and a MUKALLAF – i.e. one who has reached the adolescence age and is duty bound – may forsake a desirable act. It is not allowed to humiliate a Mu’min, and also one who does not do TATBIR may not humiliate or insult others, or accuse them (of false things).
Question:
What is your opinion regarding the reports that Lady Zaynab (AS), when she saw the head of her brother Imam Hussain peace be upon him, being paraded in public hit her forehead on the bar of the carriage she was travelling in, causing bleeding to flow from beneath her veil, which was visible to onlookers who witnessed the event?
Answer:
Yes that is proven.
{Some of the famous references, which confirm the above report, are as follows:
· Bihaar al-Anwaar; volume 45, page 114,
· Jalaa’ al-‘Oyun; volume 2, page 238,
· Zaynab al-Kubra; page 112,
· Asraar al-Shahadah; page 474,
· Al-Muntakhab; volume 2, page 478,
· Nusrat-ul-Madhlum; page 18.
Needless to say that ‘Allamah al-Majlisi – compiler of Bihaar al-Anwaar – and Sheikh al-Shari’ah al-Isfahani have confirmed the authenticity of the report.}
You have got to be kidding me if you say that you are more knowledgable than Ayatullah Sistani or Shirazi on these fields. It is offcourse in your favor if you do say, I dont beleive them.
How about this aya?
3. Imamat
We believe that Imamate is one the fundamentals of Islam. We believe that Imam represent the Prophet in his absence and perform his duties such as guiding the people, and showing them the way of the truth and Haq. We believe that someone can only be appointed Imam by the Will of Allah through the Prophet (SAW) or through the previous Imams. We believe that people cannot choose someone as an Imam because they have no authority to do so.
002.124 And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain Commands, which he fulfilled: He said: "I will make thee an Imam to the Nations." He pleaded: "And also (Imams) from my offspring!"
Source
021.073 And We made them leaders [Imams], guiding (men) by Our Command, and We sent them inspiration to do good deeds, to establish regular prayers, and to practise regular charity; and they constantly served Us (and Us only).
Source
032.024 And We appointed, from among them, leaders [Imams], giving guidance under Our command, so long as they persevered with patience and continued to have faith in Our Signs.
Quran: Surah Al Furqaan:
And whoever repents and does good has truly turned to Allah with an (acceptable) conversion; Those who witness no falsehood, and, if they pass by futility, they pass by it with honorable (avoidance); Those who, when they are admonished with the Signs of their Lord, droop not down at them as if they were deaf or blind; Those who say: ‘Our Lord, grant us the coolness of our eyes in our wives and children, and make us leaders {imams} of the pious.
Here Allah swt is referring to the aa'm people, in general, they can all become imams ? By the difinition of the shia creed, not anyone can become an imam, Am I right? Yes I am, they are BORN as imams, and they are higher in position then prophets in shi'ism.
If you took the time to read the tafsir, you would discover that this aya is referring to the Bani Israel and has nothing at all to do with the 12 imams in shi'ism.
032.024 And We appointed, from among them, leaders [Imams], giving guidance under Our command, so long as they persevered with patience and continued to have faith in Our Signs.
You also posted this aya as evidence for the myth called imamat.
Why not post the complete verse? I will post the complete verse.002.124 And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain Commands, which he fulfilled: He said: "I will make thee an Imam to the Nations." He pleaded: "And also (Imams) from my offspring!"
Surah al Baqarah
And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you a leader for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."
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Look above, I do not know wether it was taken out intentionally, I will not falsely accuse you insha allah. This verse, again, is not prove for Imamat, in contrary, it is evidence against imamat.
What is the opposite of ''Dhaalimun'' ? Allah dismisses Haran from the position, because he belonged to the wrongdoers. And again, nowhere we read anything about 12 shia imams as a concept. And the reason why the son of Ibrahim alayhisalam for instance was not excused, was that he belonged to the disbelievers, and not because his DNA was not good enough to be an imam. If he did not disbelieve, then Allah would not count him among the wrongdoers, and he would include him with the ''leaders'' of the righteous.
If we play it your way, then there are also leaders of Kufr.
Surah Tawbah verse 12
And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease.
Surah Al Qasas verse 41
And We made them leaders inviting to the Fire, and on the Day of Resurrection they will not be helped.
In Surah Ahqaaf verse 12, the word ''imaam'' is used for ''scripture''
And before it was the scripture of Moses to lead and as a mercy. And this is a confirming Book in an Arabic tongue to warn those who have wronged and as good tidings to the doers of good.
In Surah Al Hijr the word ''imam'' is used for a road.
Imamin mubin again.
No evidence at all for ''imamat''
There is no evidence that this is about 12 shia imams. From a narration we know that our beloved prophet s.a.w. said that the khilafah will last for 30 years, after that, there will be a kingdom, till Allah replaces it with a khilafah. By the time of the righty guided khulafah ar rashidun, it was the time of Umar ibn Abdul Aziz, and the scolar say that after that, the number is unknown, except the last amir, which will be Al Mahdi from the descendants of Muhammad (s.a.w.) as you say, Fatimah Zahra (radiallahu anha).Sahi Muslim Volume 9, Book 89, Number 329:
Narrated Jabir bin Samura:
I heard the Prophet saying, "There will be twelve Muslim rulers (who will rule all the Islamic world)." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, "All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish." Source
Sahi Muslim Book 020, Number 4478:
It has been reported on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: The affairs of the people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by twelve men. Then the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) said words which were obscure to me. I asked my father: What did the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say? He said: All of the (twelve men) will be from the Quraish. Source
Sahi Muslim Book 020, Number 4480:
It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: Islam will continue to be triumphant until there have been twelve Caliphs. Then the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) said something which I could not understand. I asked my father: What did he say? He said: He has said that all of them (twelve Caliphs) will be from the Quraish.
Sahi Muslim Book 020, Number 4481:
It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura that the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) said: This order will continue to be dominant until there have been twelve Caliphs. The narrator says: Then he said something which I could not understand, and I said to my father: What did he say? My father told me that he said that all of them (Caliphs) would be from the Quraish.
Sahi Muslim Book 020, Number 4483:
It has been narrated on the authority of Amir b. Sa'd b. Abu Waqqas who said: I wrote (a letter) to Jabir b. Samura and sent it to him through my servant Nafi', asking him to inform me of something he had heard from the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He wrote to me (in reply): I heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say on Friday evening, the day on which al-Aslami was stoned to death (for committing adultery): The Islamic religion will continue until the Hour has been established, or you have been ruled over by twelve Caliphs, all of them being from the Quraish. also heard him say: A small force of the Muslims will capture the white palace, the police of the Persian Emperor or his descendants. I also heard him say: Before the Day of Judgment there will appear (a number of) impostors. You are to guard against them. I also heard him say: When God grants wealth to any one of you, he should first spend it on himself and his family (and then give it in charity to the poor). I heard him (also) say: I will be your forerunner at the Cistern (expecting your arrival).
I have more, but I think this will suffice for now. Now, let me give you a few references regarding our Last Imam, Hazrat MUHAMMAD al Mahdi (AS).
Sunaan Abu Dawud Book 36, Number 4269:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: If only one day of this world remained. Allah would lengthen that day (according to the version of Za'idah), till He raised up in it a man who belongs to me or to my family whose father's name is the same as my father's, who will fill the earth with equity and justice as it has been filled with oppression and tyranny (according to the version of Fitr). Sufyan's version says: The world will not pass away before the Arabs are ruled by a man of my family whose name will be the same as mine.
Sunan Abu Dawuud Book 36, Number 4270:
Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: If only one day of this time (world) remained, Allah would raise up a man from my family who would fill this earth with justice as it has been filled with oppression.
Sunan Abu Dawud Book 36, Number 4271:
Narrated Umm Salamah, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The Mahdi will be of my family, of the descendants of Fatimah. Abdullah ibn Ja'far said: I heard AbulMalih praising Ali ibn Nufayl and describing his good qualities.
To refute your claim, just look at this narration, also from the Sahih Sittah
“In my Ummah, there would be twelve hypocrites and they would not be admitted to Paradise and they would not smell its odor, until the camel would pass through a needle’s hole."
source: (Sahih Muslim, Book 38, Number 6689) online: Sahih Muslim Book 38 - Read and Search Hadith/Hadis, Bukhari, Muslim, AbuDawud, Muwata
And please guys, don't mix everything up with pashtun or non pashtun, it is stupid and annoying, and I don't like it. (:
Last edited by Guest; 08-26-2010, 07:13 PM.Comment
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The nature of your question is such that it requires extensive argument just to show what I am about to say. As you may know or not, but Allah has given more authority to some prophets (AS) over others as is evident from this Aya:Originally posted by Baidariwal View Post
002.253 Those apostles We endowed with gifts, some above others: to one of them God spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit. If God had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after Clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If God had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but God Fulfilleth His plan. Surah Al Baqara 253
But since you asked the question in a YES/NO manner, then I shall answer in a YES/NO manner. I believe that Hazrat Muhammad(SAW) is supreme of all Prophets(AS) and Imams(AS) and that the Imams are higher in authority than the rest of the Prophets(AS) but not than Hazrat Muhammad (SAW); and there is a reason why I believe so.
The importance of Imamat can be seen in this Aya:
Quran 002.124 And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain Commands, which he fulfilled: He said: "I will make thee an Imam to the Nations." He pleaded: "And also (Imams) from my offspring!" He answered: "But My Promise is not within the reach of evil-doers."
Let's analyze this Aya. First, Hazrat Ibraheem (AS) was made Imam only after he "fulfilled" more "commands". Wasn't He (AS) already a Prophet before this aya was revealed? Yes, he was. But to make him an Imam, he was tried with additional conditions. The aya implies that to become an Imam there are even more restrictions and conditions then are for prophethood. Now I ask you, why make Hazrat Ibrahim(AS) as an Imam when he already was a Prophet, a Nabi, a paighambar? It's because Imamat's authority is higher than messengerhood; if it wasn't then why would Allah say that He made Ibrahim (AS) an Imam when he already was a Nabi. So if Nabi(AS) is higher in authority then there is no need to become Imam right? Because it would be saying like your a manager in a store but because you have worked hard, I would make you a cashier or cook instead. Let me try to give an example, say you get commission in X Army, first you would a Lieutenant (Lt.). But after so many years of being with the army you will be PROMOTED to a captain (rank). Apply this logic to the above Ayat. But of course, that is Prophethood and not army. Not everyone gets promoted to a higher "rank" only those who Allah appoint/chosen by Allah. Now coming to the second part, Hazrat Ibrahim(AS) also asked for Imamat from descendants, and as you know Ale Muhammad (SAW) are His(AS) descendants.Last edited by Guest; 08-27-2010, 01:41 AM.Comment
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are you ling know, you said you were a shia to meComment
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Too much stuff, most of which has nothing to do with the discussion in my opinion, but anyways regarding that 12 Imams narration: can you show me your version of the 12 imams? If you think that narration is not about Shia Imams then could you be kind enough to show me your 12 Imams that have passed already and who are the descendants of Hazrat Fatima (SA) and Ali(AS) and from Bani Quraish?Originally posted by Abu Hurayrah View Post
And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you a leader for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers."
==
Look above, I do not know wether it was taken out intentionally, I will not falsely accuse you insha allah. This verse, again, is not prove for Imamat, in contrary, it is evidence against imamat.
What is the opposite of ''Dhaalimun'' ? Allah dismisses Haran from the position, because he belonged to the wrongdoers. And again, nowhere we read anything about 12 shia imams as a concept. And the reason why the son of Ibrahim alayhisalam for instance was not excused, was that he belonged to the disbelievers, and not because his DNA was not good enough to be an imam. If he did not disbelieve, then Allah would not count him among the wrongdoers, and he would include him with the ''leaders'' of the righteous.
If we play it your way, then there are also leaders of Kufr.
Surah Tawbah verse 12
And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease.
Surah Al Qasas verse 41
And We made them leaders inviting to the Fire, and on the Day of Resurrection they will not be helped.
In Surah Ahqaaf verse 12, the word ''imaam'' is used for ''scripture''
And before it was the scripture of Moses to lead and as a mercy. And this is a confirming Book in an Arabic tongue to warn those who have wronged and as good tidings to the doers of good.
In Surah Al Hijr the word ''imam'' is used for a road.
Imamin mubin again.
No evidence at all for ''imamat''
There is no evidence that this is about 12 shia imams. From a narration we know that our beloved prophet s.a.w. said that the khilafah will last for 30 years, after that, there will be a kingdom, till Allah replaces it with a khilafah. By the time of the righty guided khulafah ar rashidun, it was the time of Umar ibn Abdul Aziz, and the scolar say that after that, the number is unknown, except the last amir, which will be Al Mahdi from the descendants of Muhammad (s.a.w.) as you say, Fatimah Zahra (radiallahu anha).
To refute your claim, just look at this narration, also from the Sahih Sittah
“In my Ummah, there would be twelve hypocrites and they would not be admitted to Paradise and they would not smell its odor, until the camel would pass through a needle’s hole."
source: (Sahih Muslim, Book 38, Number 6689) online: Sahih Muslim Book 38 - Read and Search Hadith/Hadis, Bukhari, Muslim, AbuDawud, Muwata
And please guys, don't mix everything up with pashtun or non pashtun, it is stupid and annoying, and I don't like it. (:
And regarding that highlighted part in the above Aya, so what were you trying to convey by highlighting that part? Be open like me, keep it short but simple, thanks.
PS: "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."Last edited by Guest; 08-26-2010, 07:56 PM.Comment
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Thanks rora, and what I am trying to do is trying to enlighten my fellow Pashtun brothers by clearing some misconceptions about each other.Originally posted by BehavedMaseed View PostComment
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Are you joking? I am quoting you, and refute your so called arguments, and all you come up with is, ''this has nothing to do with the discussion''?Originally posted by Haider Bangash 2.0 View Post
And dont put words in my mouth.could you be kind enough to show me your 12 Imams that have passed already and who are the descendants of Hazrat Fatima (SA) and Ali(AS) and from Bani Quraish?
I said, about the Mahdi, which will be from the descendants of Fatimah Zahrah, not about all the 12 amirs.
None of the verses you posted prove the made up concept of ''imaamat''. I would appreciate if you did replied to my post and participated in defence of your arguments. I commented on the issue, you wouldnt ask if you just red my post.
You gave an instant fatwa that maatam is haraam, now respond to my post and prove me and your ayatullahs from Qum wrong. It has everything to do with the discussion. We would be more than happy if our shia brothers denounced the whole bloody concept of maatam.
thank you.Last edited by Guest; 08-26-2010, 08:26 PM.Comment
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First of all Dear Hurayra, I never even said anything about Matam, so what are you talking about? Where are you refuting me? I didn't see anywhere where you "refuted"? All you did was copy past some random verses out of context and you call that "refuting"? I think you are the one joking my friend. I mean look at this, at one place you said "In Surah Al Hijr the word ''imam'' is used for a road.", how is this even related to Surah Baqara, Aya 124? Oh okay wait so according to you "imam" mean road here so it must also mean "road" in surah Baqara? If that's not what you mean then be clear and specific. For example, if you think that in Quran 002.124, the word "imam" doesn't mean "Leader" then tell us whatever you think like this "I Think that the word imam here means a 'road' or whatever", and then continue with the supporting references. But don't confuse people by posting random stuff from here and there. Wala, na de pa sawal poi shwu, aw na de pa jawab poi shwu.Originally posted by Abu Hurayrah View Post
Like I asked you so many direct questions and you have answered none. Let me try again, but one topic at a time. Okay you think that the narration in Bukhari is not about Shia Imams, okay great, but then I ask, can you please show me your take on those narrations, who do you think that narration was for? Could you give me some name, place etc?Last edited by Guest; 08-27-2010, 01:44 AM.Comment
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Shamla Khurasani,
Refute him with their book "Kaafi Kulaini" and try to know his stance about Imam Kulaini/Kulangi himself and his beliefs.
I don't have much time or i would have pulled this thread longer myself.Comment
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In case you didn't notice bro that I said I will not waste my time or energy answering "copy/paste" questions. This is not my first time arguing with you guys, I know everything that you gonna present here. The same copy/pasting everywhere. So I will someone just copy paste questions and stuff then good luck with that because I will just ignore them. Just like you, I don't have time for babish-talk. I was looking for a serious person, so far, found none. Except that Baidariwal bro, his question was direct and to the point without copy/pasting YET.Originally posted by Millatpal Noorzai View PostComment
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