Discussion of Ahmadi between Akbar Khan and MeemWawMeemNoon

[akbarkhan]

Akbar Khan we expect you to fully offer your rebuttal, not a oneliner or 2liner.

A concise reponse is very often a better response, ask anyone with a PhD from Oxford University.

[شمله ور خراساني]

What happened to the nice and cuddly Qadiani who would say "my dearest brother" and " I love you despite your hatred for me"?

He is now invoking allah's wrath on akbarkhan for no apparent reason. LOL

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Try fooling someone else! I will set your baseless claims alight from two angles.

It is not "Ghulam e ahmad", Urdu language has differences in orthographic and phonetic representations i.e. words are not pronounced as they are represented orthographically.

Let me explain this from another prespective as well, lets suppose that the reference was "ghulam e ahmad", so why is your Dajjal claiming superiority over his supposed master given that he was only a mere "ghulam" in so many other places? See below!

"The Mental development of the holy Messiah (Mirza of Qadian) was higher than that of the holy Prophet(SAW) ... This is only a part of the superiority which the Promised Messiah (Mirza Ghulam) had over the holy Prophet(SAW). The mental faculties of the holy Prophet could not be manifested fully, although the capacity existed, owing to the deficient civilization of thetime.They have now manifested themselves in their full form through thePromised Messiah, by force of the advancement of civilization."(Review of Religions, May 1929; Qadiani Religion, P. 266/241; 9th EditionLahore)

"It is possible for a man to attain a spiritual position higher than any otherman; if any man wishes, he can rise even above Muhammad(SAW)."(Al-Fadl, July 17, 1922, by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad Qadiani)

"[It is a fact that Muhammad(pbuh) worked only three thousand miracles...] MyMiracles exceed one million in number."(Tadhkirah tul Shahadatain, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 20, P. 43)

"Many Thrones descended from the heaven but thy throne has been placed thehighest."(Tadhkirah, P. 346/643, Second Edition - Mirza's "Revelation";Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, P. 89

Allah swt says that a Muslim must never claim to be superior than Mohammad phuh in any attribute!

O you who believe! Do not put yourself ahead of Allah and HisMessenger; But fear Allah: for Allah is He Who hears and knows all things.O you who believe! Raise not your voices above the voice of theProphet, nor speak aloud to him in talk, as you may speak aloud to one another, lest your deeds become vain and you perceive not.(Holy Quran, Al-Hujurat, 49:1-2)

You want to play this dirty game? Of course you do! You have no class. You are dishonest. You are a liar. You are repulsive. You are arrogant. You have no decency.

You want to play this "concise" game? Many people can claim that Islam is wrong with this "concise" game.

I have tried my best to go over everything you have quoted and give detailed answers. That is why with you people it is impossible. You lack honesty. You will stoop to any low level just to save face. You have no care for Allah. You don't believe in Him. If you were not born Muslim you would have probably killed Muslims right, left or center.

If you had an iota of self-dignity you would have taken back a lot of what you have posted because they are misleading people and are deceiving about the truth.

But nonetheless, you can't expect Iblis to become a Muslim. It is not in his nature.

"[It is a fact that Muhammad(pbuh) worked only three thousand miracles...] MyMiracles exceed one million in number."(Tadhkirah tul Shahadatain, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 20, P. 43)

Let us deal with this one only, for you want to play a "concise" game.

Show me the quote:

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

What happened to the nice and cuddly Qadiani who would say "my dearest brother" and " I love you despite your hatred for me"?

He is now invoking allah's wrath on akbarkhan for no apparent reason. LOL

akbarkhan deserves all sorts of wrath from Allah. All sorts of wrath.

If you had any iota of decency you would realize that when I have been personally attacked I have never cared.

Read the forums, whenever someone has attacked Islam, Allah, His prophet Muhammad (saw), or the Quran, I have always lashed out. I have not spared them.

Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) is a prophet of Allah.

I would not have a problem if someone disagreed. Not at all. But to make bogus quotes without substantiating it deserves all sorts of punishment from Heaven.

One can't even make a false claim about anyone, ANYONE. It is against Islamic etiquette.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

You have purposefully mistranslated the poem.

He is not saying: Ghulam Ahmad.
He is saying: Ghulam-e Ahmad.

Ghulam Ahmad is his name.
Ghulam-e Ahmad is anyone who is the follower of Hadhrat Muhammad (saw).

Try fooling someone else! I will set your baseless claims alight from two angles.

It is not "Ghulam e ahmad", Urdu language has differences in orthographic and phonetic representations i.e. words are not pronounced as they are represented orthographically.

I have already dealt with one of your angles. ---> http://www.pashtunforums.com/112356-post71.html Which I will be patiently awaiting the answer to.

Let me now deal with your other angle:

If you see where I have boxed, it is clear that Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) wants to make sure that there is no doubt surrounding what he means.

He has said:

"Ghulam-e Ahmad, that is the Ghulam of Ahmad."

It is clear and very evident that you are misleading people by mistranslating. You are deceiving people. You have not done justice to the translation, despite it being very clear right above the beginning of the poem that he meant the "Ghulam-e Ahmad (Servant of Ahmad!)" NOT "Ghulam Ahmad."

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) is giving credit for his achievements to Hadhrat Muhammad (saw). He is basically saying that following Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) anyone can reach any height. ANY HEIGHT. One can surpass anyone. Therefore, being a prophet in the ummah of Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) one has reached higher than the station of even Hadhrat Isa (as).

This is not an insult to Hadhrat Isa (as). This is only showing the Great Station of Hadhrat Muhammad (saw).

The rank of Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) is higher than Hadhrat Musa (as)
Therefore, the Muhammadan Messiah would naturally be higher than the Mosaic Messiah.

If Hadhrat Isa (as) is passed away, then there must be another Messiah that has to be appointed by Allah Ta'ala. Now, if that Messiah is to be appointed from the ummah of Hadhrat Muhammad (saw), then naturally the Messiah of Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) will surpass anyone. This is confirmed by 4:69.

[khyaal]

Your conscious efforts to drag Pashtun/afghans into religious issues would no longer work. The time of creating Punjab's proxies in Pashtun/afghan land has come to end. The game is changed now and Punjab has lost all its cards. Now it is completely at the mercy of its Western masters and their charities. lol. The nuclear Punjab's dream of a Punjabi empire is doomed for ever.

[Khan]

Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) is a prophet of Allah.

I would not have a problem if someone disagreed.

Shame on you with a such a huge lie. Allah (SWT) knows how bad are you gonna rot in hell for such an idiotic claim.

You would have cared if someone disagreed with that statement if you truly stood upon your claim and knew that you are right. Usually when a person makes a statement and then adds " I would not have a problem if someone disagreed" this shows their lack of belief that they are not sure about their claim so if someone agrees with them or does not they don't give a damn.

When I make any statements concerning my religion and a fellow muslim disagrees I question them and we both mutually come to a conclusion with authentic ahadith and Holy Quran's verses but if a non-muslim disagrees I wouldn't discuss it that much with him/her due to our religious differences.

Perhaps if you stand on something so stand strongly and present authentic prooves from the Holy Quran and Ahadith not from Mirza Ghalib's book. You believe He's the prophet of Allah (SWT) ( Nawzubillah) I ask you present a proof of your claim otherwise don't bring up this thing again in this forum and stop misleading the youngsters in here.

To others: ( Specially youngsters)

Islamic knowledge cannot be earned by sitting behind the PC and reading what forum members say about religion. Because you never know when people like Momin pop up and start spreading false propagandas with their womenish comments that Mirza Ghulam is Allah's Prophet. I am sure any one with a slightest of Islamic knowledge may come to believe it and unknowingly commit a huge sin. Half knowledge about religion is a not less than darkness.

I recommend all young individuals to leave following what others say about Islam in blogs, forums, facebooks when you guys don't have enough knowledge about Islam. Start from the followings

1. Read Holy Quran with translation with any language that you prefer the most. If you are interested in English language then I recommend a translation and tafseer by Abdullah Yosef Ali.

2. Read authentic Ahadiths books by Scholars like Bukhari, Sahi Muslim, Abu Dawood.

3. There are many other very good books on Prophet Mohammad (PBUH)'s life like Sealed Nector I have forgotten the author's name, Muhammad by Martin Lings. Brother Sangar, Mujib and others can recommend more books on Islam, Prophet (PBUH).

4. Do not trust every source until you are not sure if it's really reliable or not.


May Allah (SWT) keep you all safe from evil and guide you on the right path. Amin!

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

If what you are saying is true then have a discussion with me concerning his prophethood. We will use the Quran and ahadith ONLY.

I am not and have not run away from any discussion. It is you and your master who are simply not engaging in a proper discussion.

If you are not going to engage in a discussion then don't claim anything.

[شمله ور خراساني]

A prophet dying on a toilet seat. I thought prophets were suppose to have miracles. Was that his miracle? Dying while taking a dump?

[Khan]

^ You are claiming that Your Mirza is a prophet, prove it to me.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I will prove it. The onus is on me to prove it and for you to properly refute it.

However, does this mean that we will have a discussion on this topic or are you simply going to claim things without substantiating them? I for sure would want to have a discussion and substantiate everything that I say, I would want you to do the same.

If you are not going to be sincere then is there a point to have a discussion? If you are going to be sincere, then I will start the discussion.

[Khan]

Sure, go ahead.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Insha Allah. Once I post it I will pm you to let you know.

[Khan]

I hope you don't play the same game as you did in AF.