Is fasting obligatory in Ramadan?

[Badlun]

وَعَلَى الَّذِينَ يُطِيقُونَهُ فِدْيَةٌ طَعَامُ مِسْكِينٍ ۖ

I have discussed the above part of the verse with many Arab friends and scholars who say that the يُطِيقُونَهُ refers to Fidya, feeding the poor not to ill health or journey.

Those who can feed the poor, they have the choice to feed the poor or keep the fast. It is quite clear that Muslims have these two options as keeping fast is usually difficult so majority will go for feeding poor which is more useful option than just being hungry and thirsty the whole day.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

That's not true, because the possibility doesn't mean there are many possibilities and also it also doesn't mean it's always a probability, so the possibility would not always be likely to happen, therefore it's not an option in general.

Fasting has some difficulty, That's actually one of the purposes of fasting, otherwise what sacrifice would there be if it was completely easy? The Verse here is talking about EXTREME difficulties where it can injure you Not just ANY difficulty. That's why the grammar of the verse is "yettaqanoohiu" and not "yetaqooon kull shay"

If the verse said the later then your argument would be valid But Using Arabic structure would disprove your argument.

From what I have read, your view finds evidence basis in the canonical hadith. There is a series of back and forth in the literature between companions (Ibn Umar, Salama, and Ibn Abbas) where all roads lead to the same conclusion (orthodox practice and not Badloony Tunes approaches)

Salamah Bin Al Akwah narrated

When the Divine Revelation: "For those who can do it, they had a choice either fast, or feed a poor for every day," (2.184) was revealed, it was permissible for one to give a ransom and give up fasting, till the Verse succeeding it was revealed and abrogated it.

He was supported by Ibn Umar with

Ibn 'Umar recited: "They had a choice, either fast or feed a poor for every day.." and added, "This Verse is abrogated."

However, there is Ibn Abbas, and the Prophet is said to personally have extolled his virtues on have made a prayer for his knowledge of the Quran. Ibn Abbas would go on to run a school of tafsir (exegesis) out of his own house.

It is obvious the claim of abrogation reached his ears.

This ubermensch of Quranic tafsir, Ibn Abbas narrated a hadith found in Bukhari Volume 6 on Quranic exegesis:

http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_6_60.php

That he heard Ibn 'Abbas reciting the Divine Verse: "And for those who can fast they had a choice either fast, or feed a poor for every day.." (2.184) Ibn 'Abbas said, "This Verse is not abrogated, but it is meant for old men and old women who have no strength to fast, so they should feed one poor person for each day of fasting (instead of fasting)."

In any case, it appears to the layman that the classical literature and all the pathways lead to one conclusion: Fasting during Ramadan is compulsory and the interpretation of Ibn Abbas points to the common interpretation of the madhabs that health based exceptions (e.g. aged infirmities, diabetics requiring insulin, etc) have a second option.

I would think this is why Imam Shafi's madhab even includes pregnant and breast feeding women as a part of the group that would be exempt (though apparently others think they should make up the fasts on the other days).

[BarakzaiAbdali]

وَعَلَى الَّذِينَ يُطِيقُونَهُ فِدْيَةٌ طَعَامُ مِسْكِينٍ ۖ

I have discussed the above part of the verse with many Arab friends and scholars who say that the يُطِيقُونَهُ refers to Fidya, feeding the poor not to ill health or journey.

Those who can feed the poor, they have the choice to feed the poor or keep the fast. It is quite clear that Muslims have these two options as keeping fast is usually difficult so majority will go for feeding poor which is more useful option than just being hungry and thirsty the whole day.

Wrong again.

[Badlun]

From what I have read, your view finds evidence basis in the canonical hadith. There is a series of back and forth in the literature between companions (Ibn Umar, Salama, and Ibn Abbas) where all roads lead to the same conclusion (orthodox practice and not Badloony Tunes approaches)

Salamah Bin Al Akwah narrated



He was supported by Ibn Umar with



However, there is Ibn Abbas, and the Prophet is said to personally have extolled his virtues on have made a prayer for his knowledge of the Quran. Ibn Abbas would go on to run a school of tafsir (exegesis) out of his own house.

It is obvious the claim of abrogation reached his ears.

This ubermensch of Quranic tafsir, Ibn Abbas narrated a hadith found in Bukhari Volume 6 on Quranic exegesis:

http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_6_60.php

In any case, it appears to the layman that the classical literature and all the pathways lead to one conclusion: Fasting during Ramadan is compulsory and the interpretation of Ibn Abbas points to the common interpretation of the madhabs that health based exceptions (e.g. aged infirmities, diabetics requiring insulin, etc) have a second option.

I would think this is why Imam Shafi's madhab even includes pregnant and breast feeding women as a part of the group that would be exempt (though apparently others think they should make up the fasts on the other days).

You see there is a clear difference of opinion. Some say its abrogated but I dont believe in it ad God words cannot be abrogated or We can claim this for any verse. Some say it is for old people, some include pregnant etc.
But Quran clearly give every one the two options, to feed or to fast. No extra words or comments are there. I prefer Quran to Hadith or opinion of scholars.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

You see there is a clear difference of opinion. Some say its abrogated but I dont believe in it ad God words cannot be abrogated or We can claim this for any verse. Some say it is for old people, some include pregnant etc.
But Quran clearly give every one the two options, to feed or to fast. No extra words or comments are there. I prefer Quran to Hadith or opinion of scholars.

You asked for the exegesis or the like somewhere above. Additionally, there is no difference of opinion. We know for certain that

1) Ibn Umar's opinion leads to the certainty fasting
2) Salamah's opinion leads to the certainty of fasting
3) That the Prophet referred to Ibn Abbas's prowess in Quranic matters and exgesis
4) That Ibn Abbas took the abrogation concept into account, since he comments on it, he likely heard about it and refines the opinion to what majority orthodoxy amongst the madhabs now hold with the slight disagreement on pregnant and nursing women where the only real disagreement therein is whether they need to make it up subsequent or not.

Therefore Ibn Abbas's opinion leads to certainty of fasting.

Finally, in the worst case scenario if say any of these hadith were fabricated in the society about 250 years AH, it provides extremely important information which is anthropological and sociological in nature. Namely, this is that the supplementary literature reflected orthodoxy of thought at that time, closer to the Prophetic experience than 1400 years later.

That being said, I don't think your point is an unfair one to raise if one is reading the Quran and attempting to understand it and Islamic theology.

Your goal however, for the most part is different - its to subvert classic theology even if it were definitively proven to stem from the Prophet himself.

[Badlun]

You asked for the exegesis or the like somewhere above. Additionally, there is no difference of opinion. We know for certain that

1) Ibn Umar's opinion leads to the certainty fasting
2) Salamah's opinion leads to the certainty of fasting
3) That the Prophet referred to Ibn Abbas's prowess in Quranic matters and exgesis
4) That Ibn Abbas took the abrogation concept into account, since he comments on it, he likely heard about it and refines the opinion to what majority orthodoxy amongst the madhabs now hold with the slight disagreement on pregnant and nursing women where the only real disagreement therein is whether they need to make it up subsequent or not.

Therefore Ibn Abbas's opinion leads to certainty of fasting.

Finally, in the worst case scenario if say any of these hadith were fabricated in the society about 250 years AH, it provides extremely important information which is anthropological and sociological in nature. Namely, this is that the supplementary literature reflected orthodoxy of thought at that time, closer to the Prophetic experience than 1400 years later.

That being said, I don't think your point is an unfair one to raise if one is reading the Quran and attempting to understand it and Islamic theology.

Your goal however, for the most part is different - its to subvert classic theology even if it were definitively proven to stem from the Prophet himself.

I have found strange things in Quran. Here you have clear option not to fast but ortodoxy and tradition tell you the other way. Then you have polygamy. Please just read the verse of 4 wives and it is only for orphan women but the tradition make it for all kinds of women. I am 100% sure every Muslim has the right not to fast but tradition make it impossible.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I have found strange things in Quran.

You are entitled to your opinion - no one cares if you think its strange since the majority appear to not be as confused as you.

Here you have clear option not to fast

Not so clear when, as Ibn Abbas says, teh verses are taken together.

but ortodoxy and tradition tell you the other way.

And consensus as you see here even where pretty much everyone except you and some jewish girl who dated a Muslim and was dumped, disagree.

Then you have polygamy. Please just read the verse of 4 wives and it is only for orphan women but the tradition make it for all kinds of women.

Separate subject.

I am 100% sure every Muslim has the right not to fast

Opinions devoid of supportive evidence are merely opinions.

but tradition make it impossible.

Not so. The verse itself says "fasting is better for you if you only knew" so as to premeditate people like you coming along trying to undo Quranic literal practice when its appropriate to do so.

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