What Islam has given to the world?

[khushal]

The hadith prohibiting Nawroz is recorded more than 1000 years ago by hadith scholars. Muslim Jurists like Mullah Ali Qari al Hanafi have used the hadith to derive rulings on the ones who celebrate Nawroz.

When someone like Khushal or Brown Savage claim that the hadith is a fabrication, they are basically saying that the hadith scholars lied upon the Prophet sal allahu alayhi wasalam and the jurists who derived rulings from the fabricated hadith are equally responsible in this act of kufr. Because telling a lie upon Prophet Muhammed sal allahu alayhi wasalam is an act of kufr by concensus of all Muslims.

So basically, these guys are calling scholars who died centuries ago KAAFIRS!

But hey, why would any of you care? You don't know those scholars and you don't even know their contribution to Islam.

But you do know Khushal and people like him. And it hurts your feelings to see someone calling them kaafirs.

Stop whining like a B1tch and debate like man. Give me evidence of your allegations against me otherwise you have do to some of that takfeer on yourself by labeling yourself as a kafir by intentionally bearing false witness.

[DSM0305]

I have to agree with Shamlawar Khurasani on this one. I by no mean agree with his version of Islam, but I certainly respect his opinion because he hold to them despite what other may say.
While people like Khushal is copying popular beliefs and following other peoples traits.
SK version of Islam is often associated with Saudi Arabia by those who dislike them, that why he got accused by Khushal to be a Saudi agent.

Basically Khushal isn't going a straight line, but bends depending on what other people think. Whether it is religion, culture or politics. It is unknown what his aim is. It is like shooting a gun at the air and hope to hit someone, lol.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I have to agree with Shamlawar Khurasani on this one. I by no mean agree with his version of Islam, but I certainly respect his opinion because he hold to them despite what other may say.
While people like Khushal is copying popular beliefs and following other peoples traits.
SK version of Islam is often associated with Saudi Arabia by those who dislike them, that why he got accused by Khushal to be a Saudi agent.

Basically Khushal isn't going a straight line, but bends depending on what other people think. Whether it is religion, culture or politics. It is unknown what his aim is. It is like shooting a gun at the air and hope to hit someone, lol.

You agree based on a hadith that none of us has seen (not that he is wrong that such a hadith doesn't exist - but we need to see it first)? Thus far I am the only one that has provided any written discussion of the hadith literature regarding Nawruz:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?p=764453#post764453

None of the chains terminate when nawruz comes up, at the Prophet but rather at companions. This does not negate the utility as they were important people - but it puts it in a different category.

Holding to a belief, in either sense, that Nawruz is or is not in line with jurisprudence is problematic if we haven't discussed the actual evidence.

[khushal]

DSM agrees because I provide evidence of Afghan Gov illegitimacy and he goes on an insane insult rampage every time I do. He does not know what my aim is because I criticize all and he thinks like Bush thinks, "You are with us or with them," when in reality there are more sides than two-- false dichotomy.

DSM types would rather have Shamlawar types because they(shamlawar types) are a perfect excuse for further intervention and destabilization which fattens DSM types purse more and more. Shamlawar types are a product of Badlun, Karachi, DSM types. They instigate and Shamlawar types react.


I have also been asking Shamlawar for the particular Hadith I allegedly rejected.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

DSM agrees because I provide evidence of Afghan Gov illegitimacy and he goes on an insane insult rampage every time I do. He does not know what my aim is because I criticize all and he thinks like Bush thinks, "You are with us or with them," when in reality there are more sides than two-- false dichotomy.

DSM types would rather have Shamlawar types because they(shamlawar types) are a perfect excuse for further intervention and destabilization which fattens DSM types purse more and more. Shamlawar types are a product of Badlun, Karachi, DSM types. They instigate and Shamlawar types react.


I have also been asking Shamlawar for the particular Hadith I allegedly rejected.

Well, the takfir charge is based on the the fact that you supposedly disobeyed the Prophet directly right? So if such is the case, I think its fair to ask for the hadith.

You are a reasonable person, I am sure if the hadith was bought to hand and it had a strong isnaad to the Prophet and commentary in classic literature that you would take it into consideration...

And in fact such things matter because the evidence at hand shows the Quran and hadith delicately addressed such matters of weaning people off pagan practices/ideologies/acts. There is the discussion that is famous regarding the ordering of the Quranic verses between Aisha and a companion:

Narrated Yusuf bin Mahk: While I was with Aisha, the mother of the Believers, a person from Iraq came and asked, "What type of shroud is the best?" 'Aisha said, "May Allah be merciful to you! What does it matter?" He said, "O mother of the Believers! Show me (the copy of) your Qur'an," She said, "Why?" He said, "In order to compile and arrange the Qur'an according to it, for people recite it with its Suras not in proper order." 'Aisha said, "What does it matter which part of it you read first? (Be informed) that the first thing that was revealed thereof was a Sura from Al-Mufassal, and in it was mentioned Paradise and the Fire. When the people embraced Islam, the Verses regarding legal and illegal things were revealed. If the first thing to be revealed was: 'Do not drink alcoholic drinks.' people would have said, 'We will never leave alcoholic drinks,' and if there had been revealed, 'Do not commit illegal sexual intercourse, 'they would have said, 'We will never give up illegal sexual intercourse.' While I was a young girl of playing age, the following Verse was revealed in Mecca to Muhammad: 'Nay! But the Hour is their appointed time (for their full recompense), and the Hour will be more grievous and more bitter.' (54.46) Sura Al-Baqara (The Cow) and Surat An-Nisa (The Women) were revealed while I was with him." Then 'Aisha took out the copy of the Qur'an for the man and dictated to him the Verses of the Suras (in their proper order).

There is no connotation that suddenly even God or the Prophet would have labeled such peoples as hell bound or evil or what not. The Companion places the burden of intellectual progression on the text and the process!

[khushal]

BA wror,
I stated earlier that my family doesn't celebrate it but I don't see anything wrong with it.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=34123&page=7

If he could provide the evidence so we can SEE something wrong with it. Also I would like to know why did many Islamic rulers allow this celebration but strictly forbid others, even the ghaznvids allowed it in administration offices and the courts.

https://books.google.com/books?id=EwzQBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA495&dq=nowruz+islam&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hSNhVbaFOMbIogSanIDYCQ&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=nowruz%20islam&f=false

https://www.facebook.com/AfghanCulture/posts/548914758481982

https://books.google.com/books?id=CLXpAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT36&dq=nowruz+ghaznavids&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KSVhVY6bM4GxsAWo-IP4BQ&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=nowruz%20ghaznavids&f=false

[Karachi]

People like Shamlawar and Badlun and Karachi are different faces of the same coin. Go back in this thread and other posts of Karachi and Badlun and they use the same emotional blackmail tactics as Shamlawar. They use statements like you are a "terrorist" or "wahabi" or "salafi" or "deobandi" or "pedophile mullah" etc.

These are mentally sick people who are intellectually challenged and miserable. They are only happy when others are miserable like they themselves are. I know many people like them in real life and every time they enter a room with smiling people, their presence changes every ones mood and makes the smiles disappear.

You couldn't be more wrong. There is nothing miserable about my life. In fact since I have become more liberal in my view of Islam, I am at much more peace with myself. When I was more religious few years ago, I was actually feeling miserable all the time, because religion like Islam which is so divided, only makes us more confused. We really dont know who to follow and who to trust. Just look at this thread, Shamlawar and you are completely opposite in your view of Islam

One thing I have to add is Shamlawar is a strong character, I dont agree with him but I have never seen him abusing people, infact people abuse and curse him all the time, yet he remains calm and dignified. That is a great thing he has achieved which very very very few muslims have.

[کیش]

You couldn't be more wrong. There is nothing miserable about my life. In fact since I have become more liberal in my view of Islam, I am at much more peace with myself. When I was more religious few years ago, I was actually feeling miserable all the time, because religion like Islam which is so divided, only makes us more confused. We really dont know who to follow and who to trust. Just look at this thread, Shamlawar and you are completely opposite in your view of Islam

One thing I have to add is Shamlawar is a strong character, I dont agree with him but I have never seen him abusing people, infact people abuse and curse him all the time, yet he remains calm and dignified. That is a great thing he has achieved which very very very few muslims have.

What are you talking about. i have never abused or cursed anyone, yet you ignored me because i have stumped you with those questions i posted to you several times and you have ducked all of them. Acting like it is not even there. That is how you are scared of that question.

and you are also a hypocrite, you have abused and cursed me several times as well as hoping i get arrested. Solely because i know more on this issue than you and badlun put together

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

You agree based on a hadith that none of us has seen (not that he is wrong that such a hadith doesn't exist - but we need to see it first)? Thus far I am the only one that has provided any written discussion of the hadith literature regarding Nawruz:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?p=764453#post764453

None of the chains terminate when nawruz comes up, at the Prophet but rather at companions. This does not negate the utility as they were important people - but it puts it in a different category.

Holding to a belief, in either sense, that Nawruz is or is not in line with jurisprudence is problematic if we haven't discussed the actual evidence.

This topic wasn't about nawroz.

If you want me to respond to your post where you tried to analyze the ahadeeth, I will.

We can move this discussion to that particular thread.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

I've been hunting this hadith:

refer to discussion here:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthr...453#post764453

Can you provide it (I'm not being facetious) - I really am looking for it and for its isnad - i.e. does it reach back to a companion or the Prophet?

I'll post the narration, its chain plus the views of jurists about this hadeeth and nawroz in general.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I'll post the narration, its chain plus the views of jurists about this hadeeth and nawroz in general.

Thanks - I've been unable to locate it

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Thanks - I've been unable to locate it

you're welcome.

If you look at the stuff I posted in the other thread, you will find a very easy way of tracing sources. Those two websites contain most of what is ever written about Islam by Muslim scholars.

Take a specific hadith as an example. All you need it to find the exact spelling of the hadith as it is mentioned in the books. Put that in the search bar and you will receive tons of useful results.

[khushal]

You couldn't be more wrong. There is nothing miserable about my life. In fact since I have become more liberal in my view of Islam, I am at much more peace with myself. When I was more religious few years ago, I was actually feeling miserable all the time, because religion like Islam which is so divided, only makes us more confused. We really dont know who to follow and who to trust. Just look at this thread, Shamlawar and you are completely opposite in your view of Islam

One thing I have to add is Shamlawar is a strong character, I dont agree with him but I have never seen him abusing people, infact people abuse and curse him all the time, yet he remains calm and dignified. That is a great thing he has achieved which very very very few muslims have.

Its difference of opinion. I have disagreed with everyone on this forum on certain subjects and matters. That is just human. Its not Islam that divides, its human to have different opinions. Even the Supreme court justices of the US have different interpretations of the US constitution.

But Shamlawars argument is Nowraz is Zorastrian and the hadeeth says dont do as the unbelievers do, therefore Nowraz is Haram.

There are many things wrong with this argument. First the celebration of Spring is world wide, it has not been established that it is Zorastrian. Second we could put that logic into anything. we should not write in Roman alphabet, we should not use th internet, we should not fly on planes, we should not drive cars, we should not eat tomatoes because a kafir named chrisopher columbus brought tomatoes to the aurasia-africa from the americas.
Third, why did many Islamic rulers in history allowed the celebration of Nowraz.

His argument of destroying graves because they "MIGHT" be worshiped is equally ridiculous. By that thought process, everything should be destroyed becasue anything "MIGHT" be worshiped. People like him are financed by Western Corps to destroy people's history and identity. When one's history and identity is destroyed, they are easier to pacify and control.