Do Jinnat exist?

[JAMALUDEEN]

That does not make any sense at all. There should be a purpose of their creation, and that cannot be without a contribution to this world. And how we 'coexist'? What do you mean by that? We have never had an experience of thier being exist and still you say we 'coexist'.

Ghani Khan says:
ویره پیری دی، ویره بلا ده
And I think that is the truth.

If the Jin didn't exist, e.g. Satan.

There would've been no evil. Just peace.

[Mutakhasis]

Purpose behind life is to worship Allaah, both man and Jinn

Hairan is a shaytan on this forum, he's self-evident of Jinns existence, his propaganda machine seems to be rusted and has all facts wrong

[hairan]

What is the purpose of human beings? What is the purpose of our existence..?

Can you have a look at your earlier post? There you say:

I believe int he Islamic concept of it [existence of jinns]

So when you look at them as the Islamic concept, then the Islamic concept says there is a purpose of every creation.

There are two ways: you look at the existence of jinns as a religious point of view, then the religions say there is a purpose of everything in this world. And that purpose needs a contribution. And you are not able to describe what purpose jinns are created for and what is their conribution for that.
The second way is that you look at their existence by logic. And in that case you don't have any proof of their life and existence.

I don't see your intellect - do I claim it's not there?

Are you sure you don't see it? I have learned many languages, I am communicating with you from another part of the world using computer and internet, I am reasoning with you, I am asking questions and answering your questions, and I am doing lot of other things. What is that?

I don't see your morals - do I claim they're not there?

Morals are clearly seen and known, if you cannot see them, that's your problem. And so are the other things.

Yet, I see dreams.. I see all sorts of things in my dreams, I see that I can fly, I see that I can hold the world in my palm, I see that I can do all sorts of things, I see it all, I feel pain, I cry tears in my dream, I see nightmares - do I claim they are real?

When you see dreams, you know that they exist and they are part of your life. If they are real or not, that's another thing.

Please don't get offended

No, I don't get offended. I am not a mullah. I welcome your reasoning and discussions. There is no harm in discussing anything. I believe in that.

If the Jin didn't exist, e.g. Satan.

There would've been no evil. Just peace.

So you think Satan is the jinn? But they say there are muslims among them.

[JAMALUDEEN]

Dude, you can't see morals, but actions that are based on morals.

[Mayana]

Many, many, many people have quoted the following verse from the Qur'an:
"“And I (Allaah) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone)” [51:56]
That is the Islamic reason of their creation. If that is what you were searching for, there is your answer.

On a different note, I wanted to elaborate on the dreams..
I asked ..

Yet, I see dreams.. I see all sorts of things in my dreams, I see that I can fly, I see that I can hold the world in my palm, I see that I can do all sorts of things, I see it all, I feel pain, I cry tears in my dream, I see nightmares - do I claim they are real?

And your reply was..

When you see dreams, you know that they exist and they are part of your life. If they are real or not, that's another thing.

Sure, they exist in my world, in my little bubble, in my limited perception - does that make them real? It sure does not. That means that our perception is not related to reality. Just because we perceive something, it doesn't mean that it is 'real' or that it is absolute and universal. And just because we do not perceive something - it doesn't mean that it is non-existent. Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

If a person is schizophrenic and hears voices and sees things.. does that mean that those things are there, that those things are absolute and universal? No, because not everyone perceives them. But just because we do not hear those voices, does it mean they do not exist? No, they are very, very existent to the schizophrenic, he/she can perceive them.


Again, if you wanted an Islamic explanation .. you have been provided with one. If you want, I can elaborate on the "worship"-part of it. But other than that.. I don't understand why this topic is even brought up if it is going to be discussed in an environment that is non-Islamic because Islamic terminology is used and it already is implied that the Islamic concept of ghosts is referred to.

[hairan]

You are still not clear on the discussion. Please keep two things in mind.

One: we are not discussing the existence of jinns from a religious point of view.
Second: the discussion is about the existence, not if they are real or not. If you are able to prove the existence, that's enough. For example, if you ask me if Ahmad is a mullah. And I want to say that he is a mullah, and I give you evidence that he has studied 12 years in Madrassa Haqqania in Akora Khattak, and he has many certificates. That proves that he is a mullah. The question that if he is a real mullah or not, is another discussion. May be some people think he is a mullah, other may say he is an agent. Whatever. But the evidence says he is a mullah because he has been through a certain process of studying the required subjects in an established madrassa. That makes him a mullah. Now the real and not real thing can be discussed later.

[Mayana]

So.. let me ask this again.

Why are we discussing the existence of Jinns (an Arabic term for an Islamic concept as opposed to 'ghosts') if it is not from a religious viewpoint? Why are we using Islamic terminology if we are going to take it out of the Islamic context; or why is this thread even in the "Religion" section of the forum if you're not looking for an answer from a religious viewpoint?

[PFgulalai]

Let us put the argument in simple logic.
Hypothesis 1:God exists, so Jinns exists.
Observation: the presence of God is directly propotional to the Jinns.
Hypothesis 2:I can't SEE Jinns.
Observation: The absence of Jinns is directly proportional to God.
Conclusion: I can't SEE God.I can't SEE Jinns.
Question: So then, where we can SEE them?

[Mutakhasis]

I'd appreciate it if anyone could answer the "Jinns Plasma rays" post

[hairan]

So.. let me ask this again.

Why are we discussing the existence of Jinns (an Arabic term for an Islamic concept as opposed to 'ghosts') if it is not from a religious viewpoint? Why are we using Islamic terminology if we are going to take it out of the Islamic context; or why is this thread even in the "Religion" section of the forum if you're not looking for an answer from a religious viewpoint?

I think Arabic is a language and it existed before Islam. The jinn concept existed before Islam in Arabs and in many other areas. Islam only endorsed it as it endorsed many other pre-Islamic stories and concepts in slightly different ways. (Arabic language and Arabic terms were neither created by Islam nor any other religion, the religions have used the language and its terms to describe their concepts and ideas)
In our context, it is called Pirian (which is the same as ghosts) and it has become a cultural thing because many non-muslims in our region also think they exist.
We can move the discussion from the 'Religion' section, that's not a big matter.

[Mayana]

All I'm trying to say is that the title is very misleading; since we are not Arab and don't use that terminology other than for the Islamic concept of Jinns, it is assumed that you are looking for a theological explanation.. otherwise it just could've been asked "Do ghosts exist?" in the Hujra section..

Khair =)

[inqilab]

I gave a scientific approach to it. But is ignored. Guy just wants to argue. Nothing else.

Ghosts do not exist. Neither do lost spirits. Once your dead. your spirit cannot walk on earth.

[PFgulalai]

Thanks for providing us this useful piece of information which actually turned out to be a baseless and un-scientific argument presented by Jay Alfred who reminded me of yet another autodidact--Dr.Bashiruddin.Since I did not know him, I bothered myself to read his other articles including Plasma Life in the Bible which is quite a bad news (for many here) because he has tried to look at the Plasma Life forms from Bible's perspective.You can also lend help from his Bible's conclusion to support your faith in Jinns's existence.
So far my understanding goes, he has only tried to collect various pieces of fragmentry myths/religious beliefs and has drawn the conclusion to support his theory.In order to provide more ground to his own irrational assessment, he has tried to take help from UFOs. Now there is no mentioning of UFOs in Quran, so if you agree with him, you have to agree to the existence of the UFOs and since UFO's are not mentioned in Quran, it becomes Un-Islamic intrinsically.And if it becomes Un-Islamic, this so-called (un-)-scientific article is of no use to many who are trying to search for the rationale in the concept of Jinn's existence as well as those who think that Jinns exists for whatever reason.
Please shed some light on your understanding of this article.

I gave a scientific approach to it. But is ignored. Guy just wants to argue. Nothing else.

Ghosts do not exist. Neither do lost spirits. Once your dead. your spirit cannot walk on earth.

[PFgulalai]

Jasmine,my argument is:
I perceive things with my 5 senses--they exist.
I don't perceive things with my 5 senses--they do not exist.
Jinns=faith/Iman------(A=B) (according to your statement)
faith/Iman=nonsensory perception(B=C)
We get,
A=C

Conclusion= there is plethora of paranormal/supernatural beings of varied nature/kinds almost everywhere. If you believe in the existence of Jinns, then you should also believe in those thousands of Greek and Hindu gods/goddess, all Disnery Characters (as pointed out by Levanaye Zalmaye somewhere on this thread..Hmm Iguess), 'Kha-passa' if you have ever experienced (commonly perceived as demonic visitation but scientifically it is called sleep paralysis), and in the intelligence of that Imam to whom Jinns tell all those spicy stories of dancing women.

Isnt this discussion similar to someone trying to prove Gods existence? Or is this some sort of a illuminatii thing?

I am not aware of the above-mentioned thread.
Lol@ illuminati

Gulalai,

Wouldnt it be more difficult to prove that it exists? I think its more about faith and iman dont you think so?

Isnt this discussion similar to someone trying to prove Gods existence? Or is this some sort of a illuminatii thing?

[PFgulalai]

Jinnat does exist, but we cant see it with our
human eyes.

There was a time when people did not know flowers have emotions, now we know they can cry.

Something, as in this case Jinns, exist and we can't see with our 'human' eyes.....

.....maybe if we get the 'flower-eyes' transplant (since you said they cry, so they must have eyes) we might be able to see them...

Are you now thinking if the flowers have eyes or not?