Do Jinnat exist?

[erlangner]

I myself believe in the existance of Jinnat as my belief, but the way people arguing for the existence is so much condemnable.
In my opinion as we know, that the top of the flame is invisible, as it lies in the infra-red or ultraviolet wavelength, and human eyes can see only 290-760nm wavelength and below 290 and above 760 nm wavelength we cannot see. Same is happening to hearing as our ears can hear only limited vibrations per seconds and above 2000, or 20,000 per seconds we cannot hear, but other animals can do.
So here it does not mean that the thigns which human 5 senses cannot see do not exist. Ya there exist many things which we cannot feel. Also many tiems our senses are decieved and simple is this if we put hands from a cold water tub into a normal room temperature water, we will feel warm as our sense is decieved and it can happens in many cases.
So, now Jinns can exist, and Quran says ya they do exist, and the people believing in Quran will accept, that jinnat exist, if they even dont where and how? However the people not believing in Quran will wait till we (human being) has the technologicla power to reach the level where we are able to feel and see with special devices the jinnat.
But to force all people to believe that Jinnat exist does not seem sensible.
But it is very easy to disapprove the non-existance, as they do not exist because we do not feel, but to prove its existance is a difficutl job.
Hope some physicts will throw somelight talking scientifically.

[Roshina]

I myself believe in the existance of Jinnat as my belief, but the way people arguing for the existence is so much condemnable.

I agree. Completely. If we're gonna say that it's all about faith and whatnot, then you can't try to explain to people why they should believe in the jinns just because you believe in it. You'd have to be extremely convincing AND have excellent support for the claim that jinns exist.

If you don't or can't, then leave people to believe whatever they wanna believe -- be it that, yes, jinns exist or that, no, jinns don't exist.

It's really much more simpler than some of us here are making it. If you believe in jinns because the Quran talks abut then, great for you; but do not tell others they should believe the same thing just because of this and that.

[Roshina]

I am not aware of the above-mentioned thread.

Take a look. Does God Exist?

[Roshina]

Just because we are too limited in our understanding to understand their purpose and are too limited in our perception to actually perceive their presence, we're gonna assume they do not exist?

One thing I strongly believe is this: Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence. This means that just because we can't see God doesn't necessarily mean that God doesn't exist (but it COULD mean that, yes).
But I also believe that if others don't wanna believe in God just because they can't see it, why not? Our senses are actually NOT as unreliable as we make them to be. They're far more trustworthy than we give them credit for.

However, I must say that the following examples you gave can all be refuted and don't at all show why God/jinns exist.

I don't see your intellect - do I claim it's not there?
I don't see your morals - do I claim they're not there?
I don't see UV rays - do I claim they're not there?
I don't see your unconscious - do I claim it's not there?
I don't understand the purpose of the unconscious, the purpose of the Id and the Super-ego, the purpose of primitive desires and unconscious activities in the human mind - do I claim they're not there?

First, let's remember one thing: God is a being. If God were not considered a being, or if you did not believe that God is a being, then I would understand your arguments. But morals, intellect, UV rays, Super-Ego, etc. are not considered to be beings. Or are they?

Second, In a similar discussion, someone once said, "You don't see pain. Does that mean pain doesn't exist?"

Pain has clear evidence: You feel it -- literally, not spiritually. If I hurt you physically, you're gonna feel pain. And science teaches us how pain works, showing which pain receptors do what, and how the pain reaches the mind.

Another person once said, "I can't see your brain; does that mean it doesn't exist?"

That's actually untrue. One of the best evidence would be MRI. How do we get to see a tumor on the brain, for example?

So, regarding your questions of intellect, morals, UV rays, etc., there's actually evidence (e.g., one can tell if you have intellect or not based on how you talk; in other words, almost everyone can tell an intelligent person from a stupid person. Don't you think?)

[PFgulalai]

In my opinion as we know, that the top of the flame is invisible, as it lies in the infra-red or ultraviolet wavelength, and human eyes can see only 290-760nm wavelength and below 290 and above 760 nm wavelength we cannot see.

Where our eyes fail, our sense of touch perceives the invisible portion. We are still able to measure their wavelengths in different range with the help of spectroscopy.

Same is happening to hearing as our ears can hear only limited vibrations per seconds and above 2000, or 20,000 per seconds we cannot hear, but other animals can do.

Agreed.We can't perceive below 20Hz and above 20,000Hz.Yet we have been able to record the frequencies of bats 120,000Hz with the help of stroboscope or the commonly used instrument Frequency Counter.

So here it does not mean that the thigns which human 5 senses cannot see do not exist. Ya there exist many things which we cannot feel. Also many tiems our senses are decieved and simple is this if we put hands from a cold water tub into a normal room temperature water, we will feel warm as our sense is decieved and it can happens in many cases.

Normally things which are not perceived by human senses are termed Paranormal/metaphysical/supernatural. They do not exist in material form. To term something existing in paranormal form, you have to deactivate your power of sensory perception. If that is to believed it should also be believed that a blind and deaf man without hands in a black dark room would be able to find a black dark dead cat.
Placing hand from the cold water into hot water is a common example to explain Law of Heat Exchange. We can't see heat, but we can measure it with Calorimetric methods.

However the people not believing in Quran will wait till we (human being) has the technologicla power to reach the level where we are able to feel and see with special devices the jinnat..

Till then the people claiming that they exist should also work hard to provide scientific prove before thrusting the notion on others that they do exist.

But to force all people to believe that Jinnat exist does not seem sensible.
But it is very easy to disapprove the non-existance, as they do not exist because we do not feel, but to prove its existance is a difficutl job.
Hope some physicts will throw somelight talking scientifically.

If I believe in Jinns existence on the above mentioned rationale, I have to believe in the superb intelligence powers of that Imam who has conversations with Jinns or that flower which cries with all emotions...I wish if I were blessed with that extra-ordinary power of intelligence as that Imam, eh!!

[Mayana]

Qrratugai,

when I said "see" I meant "see". You cannot see UV rays with your plain eyes etc. But of course, with the right equipment and the involvement of other senses they can be perceived. I made that argument because it was argued that ghosts cannot be seen
and hence can't possibly exist.. And I'm trying to say is that we cannot always trust our senses.. that doesn't make them unreliable but the example of dreaming that I gave still holds. You can perceive all kinds of things in your dream, that doesn't make them existent.. Khaiiirrrr



Again, I don't think that this is what this discussion is about; it's one of those "Does God exist?"-kinda-endless-pointless-48-pages-of-walking-in-circles-kinda discussion where it's attempted to prove a theological concept from an absolutely non-theological viewpoint; meaning where someone wants an absolutely non-religious explanation for something religious.. like "Prove the existence of Jannat-ul-Firdaus and do NOT bring Islam into this because it has nothing to do with it." lol

Have fun everyone =)