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Infinite punishment for a finite sin?
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I fear this word is used by many people in such a different way that sometimes for a non-Muslim it gets difficult to define at, at least for one who does not know Arabic.Originally posted by khushal View PostAre you aware of what Kafir means?Ա՜խ, ընկել եմ քար ու քարափ,
Իմ սրբություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ,
Ես ծովակ եմ առանց կարապ,
Իմ էություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:
Ես անտառ եմ առանց եղնիկ
Իմ վեհություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:
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Kafir is from arabic which literally means "cover." During the prophets(pbuh) time, it was used for people that covered the truth with falsehood. The people that sold Idols for money and claimed that those idols possesed special powers. When the prophet(pbuh) was speaking against this, the business community who made a living selling the idols started portraying him into some mental case. They were covering the truth with falsehood so they could protect their meal ticket. The people that bought the idols and beleived they possesed powers were described as "jahil" (ignorant). The "Kafir" knew the truth but covered it up, and the "jahil" didnt know, they just beleived what was told to them.Originally posted by Arevapasht View PostI fear this word is used by many people in such a different way that sometimes for a non-Muslim it gets difficult to define at, at least for one who does not know Arabic.
That is why a "kafir" is automatically a sinner, but people dont use the term correctly and most dictionaries define it wrong.
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This is why the Holy Scriptures refer to Jesus as 'the Lamb of God'.Originally posted by khushal View Post^^so a man can take away the sin of the world?
Faye,
I didn't get how witty your post above ('pessimism') was until after I logged out the other day. Good one!اَؤ په کور کښى غُلام مُدام پاتى کيږى نه،خو زوى په کور کښى مُدام پاتى کيږى
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i think people are suffering when they are harming others or do not develop their inner self and expand their heart and consciousness, anyway.
bitterness, jealousy, hatred, spite, dishonesty, violence etc, are all poison to the inner being.
for me, that is the punishment they are doing to themselves.
they don't get to experience the beauty and joys of love and life.
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so no one goes to hell then? one man was sacraficed for the sins of the world. sounds like sacraficing the virgin so the sinners who offered the virgin could go free. Punish the innocent so the guilty gets off. Man can no longer be fooled by the superstition stuff. Come up with another story that would make sense to modern man.Originally posted by Zirey View PostThis is why the Holy Scriptures refer to Jesus as 'the Lamb of God'.
!
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Originally posted by faye View Posti think people are suffering when they are harming others or do not develop their inner self and expand their heart and consciousness, anyway.
bitterness, jealousy, hatred, spite, dishonesty, violence etc, are all poison to the inner being.
for me, that is the punishment they are doing to themselves.
they don't get to experience the beauty and joys of love and life.
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i know you love negativity, khushal, but why have you regressed to those silly uploads from someone elses brain?
are you aware of your ignorance?
use your voice man, if you actually have something you want to say. do
you have an argument, a debate?
is my comment too advanced for your limited cosciousness?
speak up lad, DO NOT BE AFRAID
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Ask those atheists and non-Muslims why should subjective crimes be punished in the first place? Why do they have life imprisonment/death penalty and jails? And is a murder victim dead for 30 days, 1 year, or infinitely dead?Originally posted by badmash_khel View PostI have seen many Atheists and non muslims ask this question.
Is it really just and reasonable that God punishes someone (eternity in hell) for a finite crime? If the person who did the crime was given an infinite amount of time, wouldn't he have repented?
How do you see this question? Is it a reasonable question or an absurd one?
There is also the issue of context, when and how those verses were revealed and who did they refer to. Kaffir/disbelievers mean many things. The Quran mostly, and directly addresses those who were the enemies of God and His Prophets, angels and message. The same Quran speaks about how non-Muslims do gooders have their reward with their lord.
Then there is the matter of al-Naskh, the Quran clearly states God can do as He pleases, even abrogate verses/command previously important. Which means anything is possible, and we can't speak on behalf of God. We can't even say that Bush, Salman Rushdie, Saddam, Musharaf, or Dr. Evil are going to burn in hell. We can stress their actions, and their crimes, and the prescribed prevention associated with them but the ultimate judge is Allah swt.
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Don't reduce the Creator of everything to our pathetic human level and judge Him based on our emotional sentiments. Granted that most of the time people that make Him out to be a tyrant are so-called his "true" believers....though that means you don't know your God well enough. A tyrant doesn't remind you how merciful and compassionate He is with each passage, that's counter productive.Originally posted by DaZahroJaam. View PostGod is a tyrant. You don't get to ask questions. You worship and you make sure that you worship him and only him the way you have never worshipped anything else. Beg for forgiveness for all the sins that you have, will or are capable of committing and if you please him enough, he will spare you from being tossed in to hell fire. .
In Islam, there is no pope, there is no sect.....you are free to make your own conclusions based on the scripture, history, narrations and the truth in them. What I have noticed is that people usually apply their own psychological attributes to God. If a person is a power freak, aggressive, controlling, he would view God as such to feel connected to their creator. If a person is compassionate, loving, understanding and caring, they will attribute that to their creator. That in itself is a test, do you really understand God or you only understand God as you want it to be?
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But hasn't the doors of ijtihad closed and 99% Muslims practice taqlid ?Originally posted by R3SISTANC3 View Post
In Islam, there is no pope, there is no sect.....you are free to make your own conclusions based on the scripture, history, narrations and the truth in them.Last edited by drona; 08-30-2012, 10:02 AM.
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Wow, You made me discover a quiet bad word in My language nd many Caucasian languages too.Originally posted by khushal View PostKafir is from arabic which literally means "cover." During the prophets(pbuh) time, it was used for people that covered the truth with falsehood. The people that sold Idols for money and claimed that those idols possesed special powers. When the prophet(pbuh) was speaking against this, the business community who made a living selling the idols started portraying him into some mental case. They were covering the truth with falsehood so they could protect their meal ticket. The people that bought the idols and beleived they possesed powers were described as "jahil" (ignorant). The "Kafir" knew the truth but covered it up, and the "jahil" didnt know, they just beleived what was told to them.
That is why a "kafir" is automatically a sinner, but people dont use the term correctly and most dictionaries define it wrong.
In armenian there is the word Jahel, in Lezgi Jehil - we use it as Young!
For example Jahelutyun means Youth, in Lezgian the corresponding word is Jehilval if I am not wrong.
May I ask You to tell about the word Munafiq too?Ա՜խ, ընկել եմ քար ու քարափ,
Իմ սրբություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ,
Ես ծովակ եմ առանց կարապ,
Իմ էություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:
Ես անտառ եմ առանց եղնիկ
Իմ վեհություն, ե՛տ արի, ե՛տ:
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Originally posted by khushal View Postso no one goes to hell then? one man was sacraficed for the sins of the world. sounds like sacraficing the virgin so the sinners who offered the virgin could go free. Punish the innocent so the guilty gets off. Man can no longer be fooled by the superstition stuff. Come up with another story that would make sense to modern man.
That's exactly what it is, the practice of human sacrifice as an atonement to God is a Pagan custom that Christianity plagiarized[QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]
2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.
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Unlike Christianity; Islam does not conclude that finite Deeds can smite an Infinte God, Christianity believes in a finite God, which can die, and fail and is susceptible to impairment by the act of sin.
The concept of Hell in Islam can taken in metaphoric and literal form. All Humans will enter hell for a certain amount of time until their FINITE worldly corruption is purified from them and then EVERYONE will eventually go to heaven once their time in hell is done and they have been purified
Islam offers hope, where as Christianity despair.[QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]
2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.
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