The Mu'tazilah, Founders of the Islamic Golden Age

[کیش]

nothing wrong with difference of opinion. It is human nature and it is unavoidable. What is needed is a political system that can peacefully have all these different opinions come together and contribute all ideas so the best one can be applied. It is our political system that is the problem, not because their are different sects or different opinions. The current political system leaves no choice but for people to express their opinions violently.

The only way a political system can work with the true Shariah, is first and foremost, for all the sects and opinions, to admit they are wrong: they do not know the true interpretation of the Quran; that knowledge is with God.

It is all wishful thinking, for each sect to happily meet and setup a political system without violence.

Even the "Golden Islamic Perioid," wasn't really golden or Islamic: as God punished the Muslims from altering the straight path, as he did with the Hebrews.

[khushal]

The only way a political system can work with the true Shariah, is first and foremost, for all the sects and opinions, to admit they are wrong: they do not know the true interpretation of the Quran; that knowledge is with God.

It is all wishful thinking, for each sect to happily meet and setup a political system without violence.

Even the "Golden Islamic Perioid," wasn't really golden or Islamic: as God punished the Muslims from altering the straight path, as he did with the Hebrews.

the americans did it, why cant we

[کیش]

the americans did it, why cant we

Explain

[khushal]

Explain

Isnt the country you live in peace even though every sect in the world lives here, why can a hindu and a pakistani muslim get along in america and actually cooperate in projects but they cant in South Asia. The difference is the political system.

Looking at american history, it had its share of rivalries between protestants and Catholics along with other sects like the mormons. But its leaders figured out a way for all these groups to come together in a political system where every group can be heard and have a fair chance at its own ideas to be implemented. Today you have a mormon running against a black man for president.

In the middle east, you have autocratic dictators and monarchies who rule with an iron fist which leaves every group that wants to express itself and their ideas no choice but to pick up a gun and force his opinion to be heard.

You've heard of the female Palistinian hijacker Leila Khalid, when she was asked why she hijacked the plane, she said my intention was to hurt no one, I wanted my people to be heard, no one in the world was listening to their cries.

[کیش]

You do have a point there. But it works because people do a good job in separating "Church and state." in a Shariah government, it is strictly coming from the laws and teachings of God, and Muhammad. So you lose that comfort within an Islamic republic.

Breaking off into different schools has ruined Islam. To get it back, Muslims (humanity essentially) need to dump their schools of thought and unite in the believe of the Quran, not it's hidden meaning.

[khushal]

You do have a point there. But it works because people do a good job in separating "Church and state." in a Shariah government, it is strictly coming from the laws and teachings of God, and Muhammad. So you lose that comfort within an Islamic republic.

Breaking off into different schools has ruined Islam. To get it back, Muslims (humanity essentially) need to dump their schools of thought and unite in the believe of the Quran, not it's hidden meaning.

It works not because of the separation of church and state. That's a myth. All presidents talk about God in their speech, Christmas is celebrated in the white house and by congress, the oath is taken with the bible. Religion was more an influence in the early days of America, it is evedent by the speeches the president and other political leaders made. America was actually very religious before WW2 and it only gave people with certain religious/ethnic background more opportunity than other groups. Those ideas changed when Hitlers xenophobic policies actually contributed to his weakened German state since most intellectual Jews fled Germany for the the US and made Germany(which used to be the number one nation with the most intellectual talent) weak and turned the US into the intellectual powerhouse.
American leaders realized that if you limit certain ethnic/religious groups out from contributing ideas, it is counterproductive. It is better to let everyone contribute ideas and the best ideas will make it to the top which keeps the society elevated and more progressive.

The foundation of America is the bill of rights and those rights are extended to all citizens and the citizens duty is to protect and uphold those rights.
Shariah is not that much different, the key is to give equal rights to all citizens and allow citizens to change society as long as they dont interfere with shariah.Just like in America, citizens can not interfere with the bill of rights. People in the past for example the jews lived happily in an islamic republic, they were protected and their rights and way of life was respected.
There are many groups in America that would like to abolish gun rights, that second amendment will never allow them to. But the important thing is those people are heard even though they want to change the foundation of America, they cant, the supreme court will not allow it since the supreme court can not interfere with the bill of rights.

[Afghanistan2010]

Because I'm against killing innocent Muslims and I promote helping Muslims progress. This is normal, but Suicide bombing, beating women ....this is extreme.

see the stuff that is extreme is the stuff that harms people

Because you are at the sun of beach....heinh ?

[Afghanistan2010]

thats the funny video but this is the real one: It kind of sounds like what this revolutionthrougharrogance is preaching
Tom Cruise Scientology Video - ( Original UNCUT ) - YouTube

Exactly,that is the picture i have of this guy....he tries soo much to be a sunni....

[Afghanistan2010]

It doesn't have to be perfect; but produce better results. Taliban murdered people and made them scared of Islam and drove them into kufrMutazilah, gave people knowledge and made Muslims a powerful force against the kufar.

which would you choose between the two?

Why should people follow your preverted beliefs....that you make so much ad for your corrupt sect.

What arguments you have.

[faye]

the qu'ran does encourage the seeking of knowledge and i think mu'tazilah is one of those ways of seeking, using reason and logic.
it is not the only way to look for knowledge so it is not the be all and end all, for everyone.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Why should people follow your preverted beliefs....that you make so much ad for your corrupt sect.

What arguments you have.

The benefits of the Mutazilah are obvious and make more sense than Taliban doing things like this

Do you support, Taliban beating women? Answer Yes or No - YouTube

Where as Mutazilah developed this

Islam, Philosophy and Science in Baghdad-Islamic Golden Age - YouTube

We can see here which group is the real deviant and which one is really following Islam.

[khushal]

Do you support, Taliban beating women? Answer Yes or No - YouTube

Where were the mutazalah during these times of need.

[khushal]

the qu'ran does encourage the seeking of knowledge and i think mu'tazilah is one of those ways of seeking, using reason and logic.
it is not the only way to look for knowledge so it is not the be all and end all, for everyone.

Revolutionthrough ifnorance is preaching non sense. Reason and logic needs an atmosphere or an environment to flourish. you build that environment or create that atmosphere and it will naturally flourish.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Exactly,that is the picture i have of this guy....he tries soo much to be a sunni....

You just say exactly to anything to whatever someone says against me; you don't actually analyze and think of where the claim is legitimate.

read and learn; then speak.

http://www.rationalist.com.au/archive/62/p27-34.pdf

The Mu’tazilah was the first Sunni
rationalist theological school,
founded in Basrah and later developed
in Baghdad, in particular during
al-Ma’mun’s caliphate from 813 to
833 CE. The main figures behind the
establishment of the school in Basrah
were Wasil b. Atta (d. 748), ’Amr b.
’Ubayad (d. 762), Abu-I-Hudhayl al-
Allaf (d. 841), Ibrahim al-Nazzam (d.
845), Mu’ammar b. Abbad al-Jubay
(d. 915), and Abu Hashim b. al-Jubai
(d. 933).

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Where were the mutazalah during these times of need.

They were ignored due to the status quo not listening to reason.