The Mu'tazilah, Founders of the Islamic Golden Age

[Friend]

Actually you can apply logic in religion; because it's the way of thinking. If religion is supposed to help improve people, it has to be applied in a way to improve people, not harm them. If something causes harm it cannot be useful. Now in real world we see somethings are more useful than others or more harmful, it happens in varying degrees. So we apply which produces the most benefit and least harm. This is logic, i f it beneficial then it's useful. Likewise A State is a real life construct, which infuences how things operate in the physical world; these are not "unseen" but "seen". Therefore how religion is used depends on logic and reason because religion pertains to the seen. The beliefs in the unseen is just something Philosphers discuss, which can also have logic/reason applied, but it is more analytical and speculative, in that it is based on more abstract hypothesis.

But logic in religion is always necessary, that is why you have Qiyas in Islam, to use logic.

Well if you keep the blind belief aspect of religion aside and start relying only on logic and reason, it means you are starting a new era of confusion in Muslim Ummah, a new era of contradictions.
For instance, Banning pork and alcohol for Muslims remains questionable and there is a huge industry associated to Pork and alcohol though there is no apparent harm in pork and alcohol and it is a daily consumable item in the west, Religion apparently only prohibits it on the basis of morality AND because Allah has prohibited it, at the other hand it is not considered an immoral action to consume it in the west.

[khushal]

Here is your commentary where you try to justify rap music as apart of Afghan culture, just because tappa aw landay have rhythm.

Thats just a response to DZJ who claimed something about how rap has no place in afghan culture or something like that. There is rap in all cultures and I know she was talking about the ebonic rap and that is what you are talking about. so you are wrong there.

No, that's not what I am saying at all, what I am saying is that Manipulative people used False representation of religion; to keep people dumbed down, through things like the Taliban, to prevent them from acquiring better intellect, because that would lead to their loss of power.

You have stated that already, but why did you not prevent them from manipulating people. Why did you not bring law and order to afghansitan when it was needed, why are you not bringing law and order today. Why are you not joining the government and changing its corrupt ways. Why are you not doing anything positive in muslim societies. Why are the nimwits beating you in the middle east. Why are these kind of nimwits(extremeists) defeated in places like America, europe, china etc.

you are avoiding these questions.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Thats just a response to DZJ who claimed something about how rap has no place in afghan culture or something like that. There is rap in all cultures and I know she was talking about the ebonic rap and that is what you are talking about. so you are wrong there.



You have stated that already, but why did you not prevent them from manipulating people. Why did you not bring law and order to afghansitan when it was needed, why are you not bringing law and order today. Why are you not joining the government and changing its corrupt ways. Why are you not doing anything positive in muslim societies. Why are the nimwits beating you in the middle east. Why are these kind of nimwits(extremeists) defeated in places like America, europe, china etc.

you are avoiding these questions.

Rap and Tappa/Landai are two different things, but you're trying to justify rap music as being Afghan, demonstrates you have a sympathetic view of rap culture. you are clearly someone who listens and even embraced rap culture. I howver have always lived a clean life, even my old ID "ScimitarXEdge" was a play off of "Straight Edge" also symbolized "SXE", which means I am committed to abstaining from drugs or intoxicants of any form. So I wasn't into such lower aspects of western culture as you were/are.

I didn't prevent people because I wasn't aware of the whole story when all this stuff was happening I was a teen and didn't have a fuller expanse of information; since I was told by Mullahs to "trust" so called Pious Muslims on their word. They used to tell us that Taliban were good Muslims doing good things. We were lied to. Not much I can do as a kid, RIght now change is happening. Look at Paktia, look at Ghazni people are rising up because Taliban are denying education; they're not afraid anymore. Before it was because of Taliban brutality; even the most logical rational person cannot Over power a bunch of cowards with Guns in his face. Having Brains and logic doesn't mean Extremists tyrants can't kill you with weapons.

[khushal]

Rap and Tappa/Landai are two different things, but you're trying to justify rap music as being Afghan, demonstrates you have a sympathetic view of rap culture. you are clearly someone who listens and even embraced rap culture. I howver have always lived a clean life, even my old ID "ScimitarXEdge" was a play off of "Straight Edge" also symbolized "SXE", which means I am committed to abstaining from drugs or intoxicants of any form. So I wasn't into such lower aspects of western culture as you were/are.

I didn't prevent people because I wasn't aware of the whole story when all this stuff was happening I was a teen and didn't have a fuller expanse of information; since I was told by Mullahs to "trust" so called Pious Muslims on their word. They used to tell us that Taliban were good Muslims doing good things. We were lied to. Not much I can do as a kid, RIght now change is happening. Look at Paktia, look at Ghazni people are rising up because Taliban are denying education; they're not afraid anymore. Before it was because of Taliban brutality; even the most logical rational person cannot Over power a bunch of cowards with Guns in his face. Having Brains and logic doesn't mean Extremists tyrants can't kill you with weapons.

heavy metal people are some of the worst abusers of drugs especially acid. where you in that acid culture as well, hitting your head against the wall worshipping satin. But nope no ebonic rap for me. I dont understand it just like I dont understand heavy metal. Rap itself and lughat are similar, it is as old as man himself. every culture has a form for talking in rhythem.


Im not talking about you specifically. I am talking about the mutazalah, reason and logic. Where were you guys. dont try to dance around it

[RevolutionThroughReason]

heavy metal people are some of the worst abusers of drugs especially acid. where you in that acid culture as well, hitting your head against the wall worshipping satin. But nope no ebonic rap for me. I dont understand it just like I dont understand heavy metal. Rap itself and lughat are similar, it is as old as man himself. every culture has a form for talking in rhythem.


Im not talking about you specifically. I am talking about the mutazalah, reason and logic. Where were you guys. dont try to dance around it

Totally wrong, there's actually metal/heavy music which is totally anti drugs. Where as drugs/immorality are hallmarks of rap culture.

Look for example at Earth Crisis

EARTH CRISIS - Gomorrah's Season Ends - YouTube

the lyrics to this song

From the core of my being comes this promise to myself
that I won't break my honor before all.
A one-way mission through life, I won't change my course.
There's far too much to experience and accomplish to waste a precious
second drunk or hazed. An effective revolutionairy through
the clarity of mind that I've attained. I see it all for what it
is as Gommorah's Season Ends in the grave.
So many have become demoralized that now a change must be forced or all will
perish in the lunacy once it befalls.

Parasites gnaw at the basis, their vulgar ways bring pointless ends.
Perpetuating the degeneration.
In this self is all I need with this oath that keeps me free.
To this I am forever true. I am straight edge.
I am straight edge. I am straight edge. I am straight edge.

These guys although Non-Muslims; are closer to what Islam teaches than even members here like the Western rap culture and shout "Long Live Mullah Omar"

You have no idea what you're talking about, must be all that marijuana you've been smoking, killing brain cells.

Im not talking about you specifically. I am talking about the mutazalah, reason and logic. Where were you guys. dont try to dance around it

I already answered that, they were silenced by force.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

These guys although Non-Muslims; are closer to what Islam teaches than even members here like the Western rap culture and shout "Long Live Mullah Omar"

You have no idea what you're talking about, must be all that marijuana you've been smoking, killing brain cells.

Marijuana doesn't kill brain cells.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Marijuana doesn't kill brain cells.

http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20080602/marijuana-use-may-shrink-the-brain

Marijuana Use May Shrink the Brain
Smoking Pot Could Have Lasting Effects on the Brain

By Jennifer Warner
WebMD Health News Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD

June 2, 2008 -- Long-term marijuana use may actually shrink certain parts of the brain and have lasting effects on mental health.

A new study shows heavy marijuana use over several years was associated with structural differences in at least two different regions of the brain, the hippocampus and amygdala.

Researchers found that the hippocampus, which is thought to regulate memory, was an average of 12% smaller among marijuana users, compared with people who didn't smoke pot. The amygdala, involved in emotion and memory, was an average of 7% smaller.

The study also suggests that long-term marijuana users were more likely to report symptoms associated with mental disorders, although the strength of their symptoms didn't meet the criteria for diagnosis of mental illness.

only the weak minded seek getting high.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/2008...rink-the-brain




only the weak minded seek getting high.

KEYWORD: May.

Here is one that says DOESN'T.

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/n...t-damage-brain

(Not your fault, universities and other researchers are pressured by governments to use words like "may", "can", etc. in order to confuse and deter people when studying marijuana.)


Though you may not realize it, eating meat, candy, fried foods, vegetables or drinking coffee, tea, soda all effect your mental state.

All of these things can make you “high.”

[RevolutionThroughReason]

KEYWORD: May.

Here is one that says DOESN'T.

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/n...t-damage-brain

(Not your fault, universities and other researchers are pressured by governments to use words like "may", "can", etc. in order to confuse and deter people when studying marijuana.)


Though you may not realize it, eating meat, candy, fried foods, vegetables or drinking coffee, tea, soda all effect your mental state.

All of these things can make you “high.”

Ah look at the date of your study though

By Sid Kirchheimer
WebMD Health News
July 1, 2003 -

Marijuana Use May Shrink the Brain
Smoking Pot Could Have Lasting Effects on the Brain

By Jennifer Warner
WebMD Health News Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD

June 2, 2008

More recent research means more up to date information and better accuracy. don't worry I know marijuana affects cognitive ability, and causes people to make logical lapses as such.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

Ah look at the date of your study though







More recent research means more up to date information and better accuracy. don't worry I know marijuana affects cognitive ability, and causes people to make logical lapses as such.

Well, then my marijuana usage makes me a better driver than you are.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/4/prweb9375729.htm

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Well, then my marijuana usage makes me a better driver than you are.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/4/prweb9375729.htm

That's because you're driving slower like old women do because weed causes your reflexes to diminish.

[faye]

lol. it's good you gave us a copy of the lyrics. anti drugs, grunge and metal? rare, my dear, rare. that would be a christian band wouldn't it?

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

That's because you're driving slower like old women do because weed causes your reflexes to diminish.

Slow and steady wins the race.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

lol. it's good you gave us a copy of the lyrics. anti drugs, grunge and metal? rare, my dear, rare. that would be a christian band wouldn't it?

no they're as far as I know secular, although "Gomorrah" does imply a religious connotation.

[faye]

studies of the long term effects of marijuana use seem to conclude -problem, no problem, problem, no problem...the judge is still out on that, from what i have seen. the last results of a study i saw, said that there was not a long term effect and that stoned folk can give more creative answers to questions.

anyway scimitar, i thought you were into grunge and horror movies. rap is repetitively negative, in general, i agree. but so was grunge and a lot of heavy m was aggro but possible less negative than rap. but the rap comes from african americans, the ghettoes and people who have lived rough and tough lives.
mind you i liked some of all of those music genres.