Muslim medical students boycotting lectures on evolution... because it 'clashes with

[JAMALUDEEN]

I didn't say every situation has many possibilities but the prior situation does; in the situation you illicited your case was only one reasonable possibility when the variables were considered ., and that's lack of knowledge and emotional appeals.there were different sets of variables in the previous context

I hope that clarifies things.

the variables change and can be altered..

In this case, I am setting the variables .. which pretty much makes you the ignorant one .. and funny thing is.. you still haven't realised...

Do you ever read what you write before posting?

LOL!!!

By the way "chill pill" very White Washed and mentally colonized of you. Anything is better than that.

Charles Darwin was a white man, and since you love flexing his theory to everyone....that is very white washed and mentally colonised of you.

[ozymandias]

Ops!

I think I offended the atheist's religion

Atheists don't have a religion.

by saying that it is based on blind faith...which it is.

Which atheist are you talking about? I have never seen an atheist basing their stance on blind faith, especially around here.

But no worries...atheists have very strong faith that even despite of the lack of evidence they still will delude themselves into thinking that their "evidence" have not been debunked, their ignorance in biology has not been exposed, and that whatever valid criticism you have against their beliefs is only taken in jest.

When you make a valid criticism, debunk evidence, or learn biology (first you must learn it before you teach it) you might have a point. Until then, nothing you say about science or biology can be taken seriously.

[ozymandias]

Ask him where he saw speciation?

Like reading the qur'an for a donkey...

Do you deny the aya in the Qur'an that speaks of Isa ibn Maryam transforming clay models into living birds?

We are in the Religion section...

I 've already pulled your pants off in the science forum in regards to evolution ...so much so that you were fiending to find an expert to debate with me...but never did manage that.

When was this? Every thread I have seen you discuss evolution in you simply showed your ignorance of the topic, an have been educated and your ignorance corrected.

[ozymandias]

Have we been able to cure a disease because of the theory of evolution? No!

We prevent new ones from occurring.

Have we been able to design better treatments and preventions because of the theory of evolution? No.

Actually, yes. See the above.

Just some mythical beliefs that keep passing around...

This is pathetic.

Yes, your arguments are pathetic.

[ScimitarXEdge]

the variables change and can be altered..

In this case, I am setting the variables .. which pretty much makes you the ignorant one .. and funny thing is.. you still haven't realised...

Do you ever read what you write before posting?

LOL!!!

Then it's arbitrary and your case is automatically nullified as a changing goal post.

Next.

Charles Darwin was a white man, and since you love flexing his theory to everyone....that is very white washed and mentally colonised of you.

The origin of an Idea doesn't make something white or any color, even though Muslims had some concept of Evolution for centuries before Darwin, so even if we took your premise as true, then it would still be wrong; behavior however, behavior however is culturally symptomatic; thinsg like "Chill Pill" are cultural expressions and features where as evolution is a description of nature, removed from cultural customs. So Being mentally colonized would only apply to you, by definition.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

This is surprising. In the US, biology is a prereq for medical school. Evolutionary biology forms a very small subsection of these prereq studies. At most 1 MCAT question will surface in regard to the subject of revolution. I still recall that my 1 question was about molecular clocks and cytochrome c.

So my suspicion is, and Dreamer and others in the British system would be better suited to comment: I think that folks over there decide earlier on what they want to do and the colleagiate equivalent years are basically a part of the pathway into medicine.

In the states, many folks, even at the best schools, just self study, skip lectures as often times its a regurge of the book, and then show up for the tests. Med school was not all that different. I am an early riser so I used to go to lecture, but the lectures were all recorded. So many kids would just watch them at double speed in their apartment. Others found them useless and just studied the prominent text books.

I am not sure if the British system allows for that sort of approach.

Needless to say these folks need to think about the fact that many facets of western and now eastern medical training might not accord with their conservative sensibilities. So why did they choose to pick this battle to fight versus the multitude of other issues that they might have to confront?

For instance, what about when they reach the discussions about abortion, the right of pre 18 year olds to acquire birth control, the morning after pill, and general sex and drugs related guidace from a physician without parental consent? Where they prepared to protest these matters as well despite the legal ramifications?

Most prereqs will entail some interaction with western mores. Western essays and poetry for example, are subject matters that many physicians will cover as a prereq to sit for such exams. If these matters were a problem, then they might as well have trained abroad elsewhere. Why would they be willing to sit for the exams over this material but not evolutionary science? If its the issue of them viewing it as scientifically unpalatable or incorrect, what about the fact that medical knowledge is constantly changing. One day you hear about Vitamin E being an amazing possible treatment for staving off heart disease and the next day that is determined to be wrong. Insisting on not studying it solely because one believes its wrong would preclude the study of medicine in general since the science behind medicine is a moving target, constantly advancing, constantly proving prior ideas incorrect or insufficient.

All of this aside, you all missed the whole point of why Toramana posted this specific thread. Its all subliminal with him and he is attempting to send a message without daring to say it. See, why didn't he post the multitudes of articles detailing the clash between Christian conservatism, born and bred in western culture, and evolutionary scientists. As far as I know, Dawkins has had to deal with more of that than anyone despite Dawkins's low opinon of Islam.

The reason is that Toramana is attempting to say: Look, a bunch of socially retarded Muslims... think about it guys... whats the common link between these guys... its Islam. So if you removed the Islam, these guys wouldnt be doing this.

Thats what you guys should be addressing here. He fails to note the thousands upon thousands of muslim physicians like Dreamer that are religious, as far as I can tell, based on their posts, who have gone through British schooling, earned high marks, and are contributing to their British society, with their religoius ideology attached to them intact.

So now, back to the real subject matter of this thread.

I think Alchemist and Scimitar should instead focus on addressing Toramana's allegation here which is: If one accepts Islam and practices it with vigor, does that mean you are bound to be a failure and stupid?

That is the message he is attempting to send here.

[Alchemist]

^ Why kill the messenger?

If not him some one else would have posted it. Besides, Toromana didn't write the article....some white guy probably (too lazy to check). So what are we to say? "Oh tha white guy wrote the article because they are muslim students!"

Good that you mentioned that evolution has very little to do with medicine..it's not even required learning.

I take it as a good news actually...

Mr ****matar and ozzy kept saying that I am "uneducated" and only "uneducated" people criticize evolution and don't accept it as fact. ****mtiar went even further...saying that Evolution is harmony with Islam...well a bunch of MUSLIM medical students don't think so...so now this labmonkey that studies rocks for a living thinks he knows more than them?

The other ethical issues that you mentioned have to do with the medical field in general. This issue that the students protested to has little to do with medicine and more to do with dogma. It's like students protesting at a politician's invite ...it's a public debate.

[کیش]

Why do you need to study Evolution to become a doctor? My brother in law graduated from the University of Jalalabad without this topic, yet he survived being a doctor in Afghanistan for two years. Currently he's studying for the USMLE, and this topic is not even asked.

It seems they are trying to shove this up your throat.

[JAMALUDEEN]

Then it's arbitrary and your case is automatically nullified as a changing goal post.

Next.

My deer, it is actually you who has been changing post goals. Just read our previous posts in this thread again, and you will know what i mean.

The origin of an Idea doesn't make something white or any color, even though Muslims had some concept of Evolution for centuries before Darwin, so even if we took your premise as true, then it would still be wrong; behavior however, behavior however is culturally symptomatic; thinsg like "Chill Pill" are cultural expressions and features where as evolution is a description of nature, removed from cultural customs. So Being mentally colonized would only apply to you, by definition.

HAHA... do you realise that someone must have come up with the idea to use "chill pill" as a way to tell people to relax who are frustrated or agitated.. ... before it even became a cultural expression..

and since it is an idea, ..then the origin of the idea doesn't make it something white or any color.. you said it yourself. Besides, the term chill pill is widely used as a generic reference to any sedative or anti-anxiety medication given to patients .. which kind of has an emotional calming and numbing effect..on them..(Free Education)

and No, my deer.. you are wrong again.... You are the one exception in here, because majority of muslims reject the theory of evolution as it is in conflict with Islam... you can try to rationalise it all you want, but your primitive mind will never be able to fathom the differences........

[ScimitarXEdge]

My deer, it is actually you who has been changing post goals. Just read our previous posts in this thread again, and you will know what i mean.

Something isn't the case, just because you say so. false premise.

HAHA... do you realise that someone must have come up with the idea to use "chill pill" as a way to tell people to relax who are frustrated or agitated.. ... before it even became a cultural expression..

and since it is an idea, ..then the origin of the idea doesn't make it something white or any color.. you said it yourself.

there's the idea, but you're using the expression, the expression is something propagated by culture, this culture is the white culture. thus you're mentally colonized.

and No, my deer.. you are wrong again.... You are the one exception in here, because majority of muslims reject the theory of evolution

But that's not proof of anything, because something doesn't become valid or invalid by popular opinion. Facts of nature have nothing to do with cultural expressions. Thus by DEFINITION cannot be anything related to mental colonization. Thus what applies to you, doesn't apply to me. You're mentally colonized.

[JAMALUDEEN]

Something isn't the case, just because you say so. false premise.

SmitarxEdge something isn't the case, just because you say so.

there's the idea, but you're using the expression, the expression is something propagated by culture, this culture is the white culture. thus you're mentally colonized.

you assumed that i used an expression, it is laziness on your part.

But that's not proof of anything, because something doesn't become valid or invalid by popular opinion. Facts of nature have nothing to do with cultural expressions. Thus by DEFINITION cannot be anything related to mental colonization. Thus what applies to you, doesn't apply to me. You're mentally colonized.

Something isn't the case, just because you said so.

[ScimitarXEdge]

SmitarxEdge something isn't the case, just because you say so.

reciprocating what I said to you, doesn't necessarily apply equally either.

you assumed that i used an expression, it is laziness on your part.

it's an expression by definition.

Why are you showing us your self portrait? I'm older than you and I look much healthier; you should stop eating western fastfood bro. It's harram. Damn shame you're so out of shape so young; another negative influence of mental colonization

using western cartoon characters is more examples of following western culture and being mentally colonized. if you're trying to show otherwise, you're hurting your case.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

reciprocating what I said to you, doesn't necessarily apply equally either.




it's an expression by definition.





Why are you showing us your self portrait? I'm older than you and I look much healthier; you should stop eating western fastfood bro. It's harram. Damn shame you're so out of shape so young; another negative influence of mental colonization

using western cartoon characters is more examples of following western culture and being mentally colonized. if you're trying to show otherwise, you're hurting your case.

I thought it was a reference to this southpark character

south park - world of warcraft fatguy - YouTube

[ScimitarXEdge]

I guess Jamaluddin looks up to this character as his role model; it makes sense now. he wants to be a white obese video game nerd? Not exactly high aims in life.

[Alchemist]

and old bald fat guy on the computer...yup! that looks like you scimitar...


lol


It's funny how your whole argument this time has been "Chill pill is an expression of white people. You used it hence you are mentally colonized"

WoW

mind blowing!

if the majority of Muslims don't accept evolution as a fact, then it means that itsn't a fact. Remember, the Holy prophet peace be upon him had prophesized that the "my Ummah would not agree upon error".

You have stepped out of the fold of the main doctrine of Islam, and hence you are a heretic!


Simple, clear cut logic. Deal with it!