Muslim medical students boycotting lectures on evolution... because it 'clashes with

[ScimitarXEdge]

^ Why kill the messenger?

If not him some one else would have posted it. Besides, Toromana didn't write the article....some white guy probably (too lazy to check). So what are we to say? "Oh tha white guy wrote the article because they are muslim students!"

Good that you mentioned that evolution has very little to do with medicine..it's not even required learning.

I take it as a good news actually...

Mr ****matar and ozzy kept saying that I am "uneducated" and only "uneducated" people criticize evolution and don't accept it as fact. ****mtiar went even further...saying that Evolution is harmony with Islam...well a bunch of MUSLIM medical students don't think so...so now this labmonkey that studies rocks for a living thinks he knows more than them?

The other ethical issues that you mentioned have to do with the medical field in general. This issue that the students protested to has little to do with medicine and more to do with dogma. It's like students protesting at a politician's invite ...it's a public debate.

You are uneducated and people who aren't educated on the subject oppose evolution. People who are educated may oppose certain models of evolution; but they all agree on evolution itself. Have you read some of the sources you cited? One was advocating Lemarckian Evolution as being an accurately represented mechanisms; he never shunned evolution itself.

But I digress. What does popularity of a notion have to do with veracity? Once again you are a victim of your own cognitive incompetence. A bunch students who are blinded by ignorance.

Barakzai wasn't insinuating that knowledge of evolution is negligible or of little importance to the study of medicine at all. He was merely saying that when he took the MCATs that it was one question. I'm not sure as to when Barakzai acquired his medical degree; but advances in knowledge which has been increasing voluminously is changing this landscape and thus would require deeper study to its relevance to medicine especially considering medical knowledge is becoming more and more dependent on the study of evolution.

Trying to spin the debate by anufacturing some fabricated narrative of what's happening is only reinforcement of your ignorance and frankly obstinate stupidity about this whole matter in the first place. Somehow you think the Environmental Science (interdisciplinary study of physics, chemistry, biology and geology) is the same as the study of Earth's Materials and their formation (study of rocks). That by itself gives us clues that your ability to comprehend issues is faulty. It's you hear the word Calculus is uttered, your brain can only understand "caca" so you merely continue on picking your nose farting nonsense and jibberish about something you are incapable of comprehending and pass yourself off as a man of understanding.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

You are uneducated and people who aren't educated on the subject oppose evolution. People who are educated may oppose certain models of evolution; but they all agree on evolution itself. Have you read some of the sources you cited? One was advocating Lemarckian Evolution as being an accurately represented mechanisms; he never shunned evolution itself.

But I digress. What does popularity of a notion have to do with veracity? Once again you are a victim of your own cognitive incompetence. A bunch students who are blinded by ignorance.

Barakzai wasn't insinuating that knowledge of evolution is negligible or of little importance to the study of medicine at all. He was merely saying that when he took the MCATs that it was one question. I'm not sure as to when Barakzai acquired his medical degree; but advances in knowledge which has been increasing voluminously is changing this landscape and thus would require deeper study to its relevance to medicine especially considering medical knowledge is becoming more and more dependent on the study of evolution.

Trying to spin the debate by anufacturing some fabricated narrative of what's happening is only reinforcement of your ignorance and frankly obstinate stupidity about this whole matter in the first place. Somehow you think the Environmental Science (interdisciplinary study of physics, chemistry, biology and geology) is the same as the study of Earth's Materials and their formation (study of rocks). That by itself gives us clues that your ability to comprehend issues is faulty. It's you hear the word Calculus is uttered, your brain can only understand "caca" so you merely continue on picking your nose farting nonsense and jibberish about something you are incapable of comprehending and pass yourself off as a man of understanding.

Wasnt insinuating it wasnt important. Just relating my personal experiences on the way, I graduated in the early 2000s from my bachelor period.

What I meant was that the trauma surgeon or the clinician doing his day to day rote clinical practice, seeing some 30 patients a day is really just a diagnosing and treatment machine. An academician, or leading super star of medicine like Dr. Eric Topol or Dr. Francis Collins is expected to be much more refined in his knowledge of genetics and basic science so that he can translate this towards cutting edge therapies. These cadre comprise a small fraction of the US's leading physicians.

The academic work I am involved as an adjunct to my clinical work focuses on a a chemokine that calls in stem cells to a damaged site. Theoretical evolution plays a major role in our thinking process on this chemokine and its utility. The idea is that a heart attack occurs... the local site emits this damage chemokine as a cry for help. In fact this particular chemical appears to be a universally emitted signal from damage sites. What we know is that at certain levels it calls in the reserves (meaning inflammation cells and also stem cells from the bone marrow).

The evolutionary theory played a key role in our view of this treatment modality. As we develop this modality, a key question was raised by my mentor: if this chemokine had an evolutionary benefit inherent to it... why did the body neglect to develop it so that we could regenerate damaged tissue? The answer put forth by this brilliant individual who has been instrumental in my career was: If you study the axis that this chemical acts through, its one of the same potent mediators that cancer uses to metastasize! So selective pressures made the choice for the body where it would abandon regenerative capabilities, but also mitigate the ability of cancerous lesions to migrate. The question I raised with my mentor was that the natural selection pressures would seem not to have been all there in that folks were more likely to die from other causes pre 1980s to the beginning of recorded history, than cancer with mets. So then, the patient coming in with a heart attack, on the verge of recieving stem cells or this chemokine will have to be evaluated in some ways in regard to cancer risks as this therapy is refined in the next 100 years.

Another brilliant leading academician, Francis Collins, the father of the human genome project and now head of the NIH wrote this:

http://www.amazon.com/Language-God-S.../dp/0743286391

He reconciles his belief with evolution quiet well.

Collins flumuxes Dawkins all the time. They never engage in debate. Dawkins is annoyed that someone as brilliant as Collins is a believer.

I however am a novice and have not studied evolutionary science beyond these aforementioned discussions and am not suited to comment on its intracacies or legitimacy. Just as I am not suited to comment on the science behind relativity of nuclear physics.... I studied these subjects, tested in them, but have a limited knowledge of them.

[ScimitarXEdge]

and old bald fat guy on the computer...yup! that looks like you scimitar...


lol


It's funny how your whole argument this time has been "Chill pill is an expression of white people. You used it hence you are mentally colonized"

WoW

mind blowing!

if the majority of Muslims don't accept evolution as a fact, then it means that itsn't a fact. Remember, the Holy prophet peace be upon him had prophesized that the "my Ummah would not agree upon error".

You have stepped out of the fold of the main doctrine of Islam, and hence you are a heretic!


Simple, clear cut logic. Deal with it!

That's the worst parody of logic imaginable; The majority of Muslims are Sunni; if we followed your line of reasoning this would mean Shi'a are heretics. Let's take it a step further. The majority of Muslims favor democratically based Shari'ah Governments (proof : Do Muslims Want Democracy and Theocracy?). This is something you condemn as heresy; so by your reasoning this would mean by default you're a heretic.

The fact is Majority support or denial of something does not prove LOGICALLY, that something is valid. These are just the rules of logic. "Deal With It". The Prophet (saw) is obviously talking in another context, not some asinine dogma you're brainwashed by.


by the way; I don't know why you're so obsessed with portraying me as obese; I'm far from it.....You must have some bizarre homosexual fixation with fat men, looking to the wrong guy. I'm heterosexual, move on, get over me.

[JAMALUDEEN]

Why are you showing us your self portrait? I'm older than you and I look much healthier; you should stop eating western fastfood bro. It's harram. Damn shame you're so out of shape so young; another negative influence of mental colonization

You do realise, that whatever you say.....in actuality it all applies to you.

As for my fitness: I do 10 km runs every day..i swim too..i do weights.. i do kickboxing too.. I do bush walking every few weeks.. My job is such that requires me to be fit.. LOL... I wish i had the time to be chubby like you.. no offence intended..

I didn't even caption the picture i posted, and you assumed... it was about you..HAHA

you can be like me.. Jenny Craig Weight Loss Program ..its all in the mind bro.. its all in the mind!!!

[JAMALUDEEN]

If evolution is true, and our genetic material identical to chimps (99%)...then why is it.. that human organs are still used.. on people who need it. Why not use a chimps organs... or a barnyard pigs organ.. (This would have helped and made a positive medicine...) Their DNA is identical to ours...

[JAMALUDEEN]

I thought it was a reference to this southpark character

south park - world of warcraft fatguy - YouTube[/URL]

lol that is a funny episode.

[JAMALUDEEN]

I guess Jamaluddin looks up to this character as his role model; it makes sense now. he wants to be a white obese video game nerd? Not exactly high aims in life.

You are not my role model...

[Alchemist]

Barakzai,
The central role of chemokins is in the development of the nervous system. They are present in most mammals, and even "evolutionists" date it back all the way to eels...so it has an "inherent benefit". So the same molecule here has multiple functions! To assume that that this molecule "evoloved" under one set of "selective pressure" is a priori. The same molecule having multiple functions (neural development and immune system responses), present in a variety of species with similar functions can not be accounted for a theory that essentially proposes that a selective pressure produces a response which causes an adaptative change towards that response...

[ozymandias]

and old bald fat guy on the computer...yup! that looks like you scimitar...


lol


It's funny how your whole argument this time has been "Chill pill is an expression of white people. You used it hence you are mentally colonized"

WoW

mind blowing!

if the majority of Muslims don't accept evolution as a fact, then it means that itsn't a fact.

You crack me up. Thanks for the laugh early in the day.

Remember, the Holy prophet peace be upon him had prophesized that the "my Ummah would not agree upon error".

You have stepped out of the fold of the main doctrine of Islam, and hence you are a heretic!


Simple, clear cut logic. Deal with it!

Yeah, after saying that facts are a matter of public opinion, you have no room to tell people what is logical and what is not.

[ozymandias]

If evolution is true, and our genetic material identical to chimps (99%)...then why is it.. that human organs are still used.. on people who need it. Why not use a chimps organs... or a barnyard pigs organ.. (This would have helped and made a positive medicine...) Their DNA is identical to ours...

There DNA is *NOT* 100% identical to ours, for one thing. For another, not even every human can donate every organ to every other human. Things like blood types are controlled by *very* small changes in DNA and have a huge impact on rejection of donated organs. A little basic medical knowledge goes a long way.

[ScimitarXEdge]

You are not my role model...

I know, Western cartoon characters are your model, who resemble obese european descended men are your role model; as is common for the mentally colonized.

[ScimitarXEdge]

If evolution is true, and our genetic material identical to chimps (99%)...then why is it.. that human organs are still used.. on people who need it. Why not use a chimps organs... or a barnyard pigs organ.. (This would have helped and made a positive medicine...) Their DNA is identical to ours...

There are humans whose organs that can't be used in transplant because their Blood Types don't match other humans, so the body of the transplantee would reject it. So this argument has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that chimps are similar genetically to humans, because humans are clearly more similar to each other and this happens.

Here's a question for you


If humans were LITERALLY made from clay, why is it we find no silicate (the compound that makes clay) compounds composing the structure of any tissue system or cell in the human body?

[JAMALUDEEN]

There DNA is *NOT* 100% identical to ours, for one thing. For another, not even every human can donate every organ to every other human. Things like blood types are controlled by *very* small changes in DNA and have a huge impact on rejection of donated organs. A little basic medical knowledge goes a long way.

There are humans whose organs that can't be used in transplant because their Blood Types don't match other humans, so the body of the transplantee would reject it. So this argument has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that chimps are similar genetically to humans, because humans are clearly more similar to each other and this happens.

Here's a question for you


If humans were LITERALLY made from clay, why is it we find no silicate (the compound that makes clay) compounds composing the structure of any tissue system or cell in the human body?

But when you leave everything to chance, then why isn't this possible?

The Animal (2001) -- Trailer - YouTube

[graveyardofempires]

good job these students.

everybody should question this theory sinc eit is nothing but a pack of lies.

[ozymandias]

But when you leave everything to chance, then why isn't this possible?

The Animal (2001) -- Trailer - YouTube

I don't understand what you are asking. What is being left to chance? Nothing -- that is why the students are educated on biology before becoming doctors -- replace as much chance with knowledge. What does that fictional movie have to do with anything? I don't understand. Are you confused as to how realistic that movie is?