Al Hanif's Shoutbox

[MohannaD]

what's wahabism ? who are they ?why do you call them wahabism? where did this word come from? when this all happen.............etc
tell me everything NOW.

I've mentioned them 'cause they're menioned in Soldat_Amir 's reply .
Check these two links :
English:
http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%...A8%D9%8A%D8%A9
Arabic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi

[Afghanistan2010]

If suffism is part of our culture which is ridiculous,and they reject war and combat.

Then why have we fought since we are muslims for the cause of Islam ,and we have given hundreds of thousands of lifes just for no reason and they were on wrong path.

I tell you im the son of Ahmad Shah Abdali (rah) , im the son of Mirwais Neka and im the son of Wazir Akbar Khan and im the son of the kurdish Lion Salahuddin Al Ayoubi (may Allah have his mercy on them) verily they were from the swords of Allahs.

And we are a nation that is born as warriors and dies as warriors for the cause of peace and freedom of the innocents.

This is what we do to our enemies

Dr
Brydon, a british surgeon, became famous for being the only European survivor of the
entire english contingent to have escaped the Afghan guerrillas.

[Afghanistan2010]

Hi no atheist dont kill atheist with different views. Only Muslims kill other Muslims just like they are ordered to by magic sky god. If atheist disagree they have rational debate. They also make fun of each other and draw each other cartoons. Muslims will kill you just for not having bigger beard than what he suppose you should. Muslims will kill you because you dont show your ankles. Muslims will kill you because you place your hands differently while praying. Muslims will kill you if your azaan is on different timing or if you say takbeer loud.

So if atheist dont agree with me we will just respect each other opinion.

And the sowjet communists and the chinese communists who are atheists has killed many people since they are communists,and most wars were not fought because of religion but because of money and wealth,and territory.

My son check again.

[Al Hanif]

Al Hanif,
what about Hanafi Islam and customary law and practices?

What is a madhab = school of thought ?
The Encyclopaedia of Islam translates it as a "way of thinking, persuasion".
I would say it is "a method", a method of interpretation of religious material in the three major areas : belief, religious practice and law.

There are four Sunni schools of thought. Hanafi, Shafi'i, Maliki and Hanbali. Each one recognizes the others as legit sources of legislation. Their goal is to give an interpretation to the verses of the Qur'an and the Hadiths to tell you what is right and what is wrong because the average muslim is not supposed to study all the Qur'an to know perfectly what is lawful and what is unlawful. The scholars can speak arabic fluently, they have studied the Qur'an for many years. They are sticking strictly to the Sunna (prophetic tradition). In real life, it is almost impossible to tell which school of thought a muslim follows because the differences between two of them are almost non-existant in terms of cultural practise. I'll give you an example : the people who learned to pray in the Maliki school way leave their arms and hands dangling at their sidesways, in the others schools people place hands across the chest. That is the biggest and only difference between someone who prays in the Maliki way and the others. You will never see terrorists attacking a mosque where people don't cross their hands. That's because the differences are almost inexistant in terms of cultural practise.

The problem with the Sufis is that they are doing whatever they want. They are not following the prophetic tradition. Between two Sufi congregations there can be an infinite number of differences in terms of practices. The majority of them never studied the Qur'an. They are just blindly following what their forefathers did. And sometimes it leads them far away from Islam (asking help to dead people, bowing down to humans, giving divine attributes to their masters...)

Taqlid (Arabic term in Islamic legal terminology connoting "imitation", that is; following the decisions of a religious authority without necessarily examining the scriptural basis or reasoning of that decision) is not 'Ilm (Arabic term meaning knowledge of Islam).

[ScimitarXEdge]

If suffism is part of our culture which is ridiculous,and they reject war and combat.

Then why have we fought since we are muslims for the cause of Islam ,and we have given hundreds of thousands of lifes just for no reason and they were on wrong path.
]

THis is just what Saudi Kharijis have brainwashed you with. Sufis did fight jihad; but they did it the RIGHT way ....without murdering their own civilians and committing crimes like rape, torture and suicide bombings

The Place of Tasawwuf in Traditional Islam

Among the Sufis who aided Islam with the sword as well as the pen, to quote Reliance of the Traveller, were:

such men as the Naqshbandi sheikh Shamil al-Daghestani, who fought a prolonged war against the Russians in the Caucasus in the nineteenth century; Sayyid Muhammad ‘Abdullah al-Somali, a sheikh of the Salihiyya order who led Muslims against the British and Italians in Somalia from 1899 to 1920; the Qadiri sheikh ‘Uthman ibn Fodi, who led jihad in Northern Nigeria from 1804 to 1808 to establish Islamic rule; the Qadiri sheikh ‘Abd al-Qadir al-Jaza’iri, who led the Algerians against the French from 1832 to 1847; the Darqawi faqir al-Hajj Muhammad al-Ahrash, who fought the French in Egypt in 1799; the Tijani sheikh al-Hajj ‘Umar Tal, who led Islamic Jihad in Guinea, Senegal, and Mali from 1852 to 1864; and the Qadiri sheikh Ma’ al-‘Aynayn al-Qalqami, who helped marshal Muslim resistance to the French in northern Mauritania and southern Morocco from 1905 to 1909.

The difference between Sufi MUjahideen and Khariji criminals like the Taiban is the Sufis didn't need to suicide bomb. They had spiritual power and that won their battles.

The fact Taliban suicide bomb, means that God didn't bless their fight so he didn't grant them his barakah.

That is why the whole Wahhabi (Neo Khariji) movement that tries to separate Muslims from their spiritual heritage ..is really a colonial/imperilial plot. ...The Fitnah from Najd, (Abdul Wahhab) was a British servant

[Afghanistan2010]

When murderers write history,they are the heroes in them.

[ScimitarXEdge]

There are four Sunni schools of thought. Hanafi, Shafi'i, Maliki and Hanbali. Each one recognizes the others as legit sources of legislation.

Each Sufi Tariqah, recognizes other Sufi Turuq, a qualified for teaching 'Irfan and Tazkiyah Al Nafs.

Their goal is to give an interpretation to the verses of the Qur'an and the Hadiths to tell you what is right and what is wrong because the average muslim is not supposed to study all the Qur'an to know perfectly what is lawful and what is unlawful.

wrong, it is every Muslims duty to seek as much knowledge as possible. Islam never states that the job of understanding Fiqh is supposed to be held by a cartel

He said: "Whoever follows a path in the pursuit of knowledge, Allaah will make a path to Paradise easy for him." (Al-Bukhaari)

Shaikhs are jut there because they have done this more than others, but it is open to anyone or everyone who has the effort. Just like anyone seeking any degree.

You will never see terrorists attacking a mosque where people don't cross their hands. That's because the differences are almost inexistant in terms of cultural practise.

Wrong, there are numerous examples of fights breaking out between putting hands on your chest and such.

The problem with the Sufis is that they are doing whatever they want.

That's not true, Most of the LEGITIMATE Sufiyeen advocate following the Shari'ah' but they don't follow th Saudi ideas, they follow the Traditional Scholars.

The majority of them never studied the Qur'an.

Most Traditional Sunni scholars were also Sufi.

And sometimes it leads them far away from Islam (asking help to dead people, bowing down to humans, giving divine attributes to their masters...

)

If you're talking about Tawassul, according to many Sunni Ulama this is permissible and proven by Islam. I personally don't believe in Tawassul , but as long as no one is being harmed , exploited or lives violated. I let Allah (swt) judge their actions.


In fact trying to judge these people means you're acting as if you're in the position of Allah(swt) and are committing shirk al akbar

[IamDZJ]

Hi why do you think i am coward. For rejecting religion i risk losing my family friends and life. it takes more courage to face your religion dogma instead believing like sheep what you born in to. I have the courage to challenge what is thought to me do you. you just worship pray because you were told like good obedient boy. Thankfully my family friends are educated and understanding. I dont insult their religion i ask them questions they can provide answers to.

Calm down. Breath in, breath out. No one is going to kill you. As a matter of fact, I see *the chances of you killing yourself for being so paranoid and intolerant the way you accuse others of being as alot higher than you getting killed for questioning Islam. Actually, you don't even question it, you mock it.*
Don't kid yourself with your "I am an atheist" talk. You are just another hypocrite with your own little messed up perception of reality. Scared to death because you know you are wrong.*

I am not discussing anything with you or arguing with you.. I am just telling you.

[Al Hanif]

THis is just what Saudi Kharijis have brainwashed you with. Sufis did fight jihad; but they did it the RIGHT way ....without murdering their own civilians and committing crimes like rape, torture and suicide bombings

Nah. I don't buy your zionist propaganda. Where are the Sufi brigades fighting the invading Kuffars in occupied Afghanistan ?

Each Sufi Tariqah, recognizes other Sufi Turuq, a qualified for teaching 'Irfan and Tazkiyah Al Nafs.

Wrong, there are numerous examples of Sufis excluded and told to never come back because they joined another congregation.

That's not true, Most of the LEGITIMATE Sufiyeen advocate following the Shari'ah' but they don't follow th Saudi ideas, they follow the Traditional Scholars.

What are Saudi Ideas ? Are you talking about the 10% of Shia Saudis ?
Matter of fact is that I've never seen a Sufi stoning to death an adulterer. Shows how much love they have for the Sharia of Allah SWT.

wrong, it is every Muslims duty to seek as much knowledge as possible. Islam never states that the job of understanding Fiqh is supposed to be held by a cartel

He said: "Whoever follows a path in the pursuit of knowledge, Allaah will make a path to Paradise easy for him." (Al-Bukhaari)

Shaikhs are jut there because they have done this more than others, but it is open to anyone or everyone who has the effort. Just like anyone seeking any degree.

Completely false. You have no credibility whatsoever. Calling the scholars a cartel... Shows how deviant you are...

It's not up to everyone to make his own interpretations. There are rules to follow. We are living in a society. The laws are based on a consensus and it's not up to the average muslim to decide by himself if he can or he can't do such things. Where do you think you are ?

"Believers! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you..." (Qur'an 4:59)

Most Traditional Sunni scholars were also Sufi.

Yet they never ever asked dead people for help, they never ever bowed down to humans, they never ever gave human attributes to humans...

In fact trying to judge these people means you're acting as if you're in the position of Allah(swt) and are committing shirk al akbar

I am so scared, Mr Munafiq. Let's not judge the mushriks because that would be making us as a god and that would be Shirk Akbar ? Ahahaha Is it the best you can come up with ?

It is written in the Noble Qur'an that dead people cannot hear.

It is written in Surah Al Fatiha : إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِيْنُ

"You alone do we worship, and You alone do we turn for help."

I'm not surprised that Sufis don't even know Al Fatiha. Even the few of them who know this surah do not even understand what it means.

[ScimitarXEdge]

[B]
Nah. I don't buy your zionist propaganda. Where are the Sufi brigades fighting the invading Kuffars in occupied Afghanistan ?

Hahahha Zionist propaganda? That doesn't mean make sense. Why would zionists want anyone fighting, nevermind Sufis

Wrong, there are numerous examples of Sufis excluded and told to never come back because they joined another congregation.

Like?

What are Saudi Ideas ? Are you talking about the 10% of Shia Saudis ?
Matter of fact is that I've never seen a Sufi stoning to death an adulterer. Shows how much love they have for the Sharia of Allah SWT.

I've never seen a Sufi, commit a suicide bombing; which shows they love Allah(swt) more than the Taliban, since suicide bombing is condemned by the 'ijma and also murders other Muslims.

Completely false. You have no credibility whatsoever. Calling the scholars a cartel... Shows how deviant you are...

No it shows how brainwashed you are by the Saudi Munfiqeen.

It's not up to everyone to make his own interpretations

It's up to everyone to use their own brain and knowledge to come to conclusions.

Who gave the Saudi Brainwashers the sole proprietors of how to interpret things?

. There are rules to follow. We are living in a society. The laws are based on a consensus and it's not up to the average muslim to decide by himself if he can or he can't do such things. Where do you think you are ?

The Early Scholars were just Average Muslims who decided to study the Usul.....Average Muslims can learn whatever they want ....and you can't stop them ....Knowledge is free for everyone...anyone who has the desire to learn.

And your Wahhabi Cartel has no say.

"Believers! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you..." (Qur'an 4:59)

But notice ....it never says that only certain people are restricted to be Authorities. This is open for anyone who has the ability to do it.

Yet they never ever asked dead people for help, they never ever bowed down to humans, they never ever gave human attributes to humans..

But the Ulama of the Sunnis have agreed tawassul is permitted and proven by the Sunnah. So you're contradicting your own argument.

I am so scared, Mr Munafiq. Let's not judge the mushriks because that would be making us as a god and that would be Shirk Akbar ? Ahahaha Is it the best you can come up with

You're calling others mushrik without any basis from real Sunni Ulama
Abu Hanifa & Tawassul

So you judging others are mushriks, is taking Allah(swt)'s attribute of Al-Hakim upon yourself.

you're an Apostate now

It is written in the Noble Qur'an that dead people cannot hear.

It is written in Surah Al Fatiha : إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِيْنُ

"You alone do we worship,

and You alone do we turn for help."

I'm not surprised that Sufis don't even know Al Fatiha. Even the few of them who know this surah do not even understand what it means.

But Qur'an says

Indeed, your Lord is Allah , who created the heavens and the earth in six days and then established Himself above the Throne, arranging the matter [of His creation]. There is no intercessor except after His permission. That is Allah , your Lord, so worship Him. Then will you not remember? (Surah Yunus verse 10)

[Catya Sher]

Such an interesting and amusing discussion to read !
I haven't caught up on all of it yet
but first to reply to badmash_khel's post way back page 2 :

Some of my elders say that every Afghan/Pashtun area used to have a Pir, sort of like a guide. These Pirs commanded great respect and people would consult them for advice in conflicts and disputes. They were trusted because they had a reputation for piousness and leading simple lives

I see this as TRUE - but ONLY in the PAST.
In these decades since Westerners started changing the ways of the Islamic
countries, even how Turkey got ruined by the enforced dismantlement of the Ottoman Sultanate,
everything truly SPIRITUAL deteriorated.

Just like it's difficult to find any real craftsmen left who know the old ways of
building beautiful mosques or creating beautiful motifs to decorate or
make the old types of inlaid pearl designs on furniture, boxes, etc. -
the same with the spiritual arena.

There just aren't REAL TRUE Pirs left !
They are too much concerned with EGO, no matter what they TALK about,
they are not showing a good example to their followers at this time.

I have no doubt that these lineages all have deteriorated during the
past so many years.

So it's not a good investment of one's energy to go emulate a Pir of this era.

I consider that it is a wastage of valuable time on earth to
do so, because one will not
achieve as much as he or she should with the same amount of time and energy
and study.
One might become a better person, but as I said to Barakzai once regarding
his political pir at that time, Michael S.,
if one choose the wrong "guru", one gets completely OFF THE TRACK
where he really should be.

It's too dangerous especially these days to make a wrong choice.
Most people brought up in the West, especially in America,
COMPLETELY
LACK
DISCERNMENT - that ability to disciminate what is the highest and the BEST
path.

Hence FALSE GURUS abound to take advantage of the gullible.

Beware !!

P.S> There was one in my area some years ago, named of all things,
Sufi Hanif ! I wasn't taken in by him at all, but 2 guys who are now famous
in Islamic communities definitely WERE>. They later admitted their mistake to me.

[Soldat_Amir]

Such an interesting and amusing discussion to read !
I haven't caught up on all of it yet
but first to reply to badmash_khel's post way back page 2 :

Some of my elders say that every Afghan/Pashtun area used to have a Pir, sort of like a guide. These Pirs commanded great respect and people would consult them for advice in conflicts and disputes. They were trusted because they had a reputation for piousness and leading simple lives

I see this as TRUE - but ONLY in the PAST.
In these decades since Westerners started changing the ways of the Islamic
countries, even how Turkey got ruined by the enforced dismantlement of the Ottoman Sultanate,
everything truly SPIRITUAL deteriorated.

Just like it's difficult to find any real craftsmen left who know the old ways of
building beautiful mosques or creating beautiful motifs to decorate or
make the old types of inlaid pearl designs on furniture, boxes, etc. -
the same with the spiritual arena.

There just aren't REAL TRUE Pirs left !
They are too much concerned with EGO, no matter what they TALK about,
they are not showing a good example to their followers at this time.

I have no doubt that these lineages all have deteriorated during the
past so many years.

So it's not a good investment of one's energy to go emulate a Pir of this era.

I consider that it is a wastage of valuable time on earth to
do so, because one will not
achieve as much as he or she should with the same amount of time and energy
and study.
One might become a better person, but as I said to Barakzai once regarding
his political pir at that time, Michael S.,
if one choose the wrong "guru", one gets completely OFF THE TRACK
where he really should be.

It's too dangerous especially these days to make a wrong choice.
Most people brought up in the West, especially in America,
COMPLETELY
LACK
DISCERNMENT - that ability to disciminate what is the highest and the BEST
path.

Hence FALSE GURUS abound to take advantage of the gullible.

Beware !!

P.S> There was one in my area some years ago, named of all things,
Sufi Hanif ! I wasn't taken in by him at all, but 2 guys who are now famous
in Islamic communities definitely WERE>. They later admitted their mistake to me.

Blame everything on the West, the Ottomons were destroyed due to Arab resentment not because of the West.

and Secondly, if you care so much for Islam, then why do you remain an Infidel?

Sounds fishy to me.

Pirs are Pirs, none of them have changed.

[IamDZJ]

Al khabis and Afghanistan2010, I don't want either one of you thanking my posts. Don't pretend you know what I am talking about because you two are the exact same thing as he is but on the opposite side of the spectrum.*

[Afghanistan2010]

Obesession with the Thank button.

[Al Hanif]

I would like to see Al Hanif, who claims to be "just Muslim", make a similar thread about the Ahl-e-Sunnah since he's already made one about Sufis and Shias. Or is he too afraid that such a thread against the belief of over 95% of Pashtuns would not go down well on a forum full of them.

Ahl Al Sunna are following sunna. They don't prostrate to human beings, they don't ask dead people for help, they don't give divine attributes to Hussein or Ali, they don't call their sons AbdulZahra (slave of Zahra) (AHUDUBILAH!)...

I condemn "Sunni" muslims calling themselves "Sunnis" as much as I condemn "Shias" muslims calling themselves "Shias" and "Sufis" calling themselves "Sufis".

Except that the people calling themselves "Sunnis" are impeccable in their 'aqida. If I would do a thread about them, that would be only : "stop calling yourselves Sunnis". But that's it. Boring thread isn't it ?

And as for him claiming sects "divide" Muslims, isn't he the one creating the division here by making these threads?

Huh ? Is it me who started calling myself a different type of muslim ? Is it me who invented my own ways of worshipping Allah SWT not in accordance to the Sunna ? Is it me who founded an organisation and named it by a word the Prophet (pbuh) had never heard of ?

Read this Verse of the Noble Qur'an :

“As for those who divide Their religion and break up Into sects, you have no part in them in the least: Their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.” [Al-Qur’an 6:159]

Allah SWT says that I have no part in them in the least. Does that answer your question ?