Stoning to Death

[Niazi]

only people who have become mentally colonized and brainwashed by farangiyan think this is backwards.

That is how your way of thinking????

Men should be allowed sex slaves and female prisoners could do the job - and all this from a WOMAN politician from Kuwait | Mail Online

[ScimitarXEdge]

That is how your way of thinking????

Men should be allowed sex slaves and female prisoners could do the job - and all this from a WOMAN politician from Kuwait | Mail Online

what does this have to do with stoning as a penalty for adultery?

Get your head straight, think logically.

[Niazi]

A lot if you want to see logic in it.

[Haris]

That is how your way of thinking????

Men should be allowed sex slaves and female prisoners could do the job - and all this from a WOMAN politician from Kuwait | Mail Online

lol the DM is less credible than press TV especially when it comes to news about immigrants, Islam or terrorism.

[Zahed]

Whether they do or do not is not my concern, my concern is How detrimental or destructive someone's choices are. Their belief in God is something they must decide inside themselves and is outside my jurisdiction. What is evident is these people have lost their sense of standards and are using freedom as a scapegoat for immorality. This concerns me greatly.

is someone's personal choice ever destructive enough to be stoned to death?? if their believe in God is not strong then that's their problem, who the hell 're a few illiterate fanatics to play God 'n punish them?? wtf?? if they want to lose their standard or morals or whatever then they 'll but why is that a crime? WHY SHOULD THAT BE A CRIME?? 're they snatching someone's right to live?? someone's right to breath? someone's right of food? someone's right of property?? how the hell 're two adults making love committing a sin?? 'cause it upsets ur Allah who has no business in this??

[Zahed]

This is actually the result of the incompetency of the people who don't have complete knowledge about their religions. Regarding your second part of the post, Look we are the slaves of Allah we have to meet him one day and we have to account for all of our deeds that we do here. So Allah has send a book and a prophet for us to follow. We have to follow our prophet and our final book. If we do not follow our book then we are the one who will be in big loss on the day of judgement and that will be eternal. Like when you get a driving licence, you are given a manual book in which you are explained the laws and do's and don'ts. If you follow those rules then you will drive safely but if you don't follow that book then you will make a mistake and consequently an accident to death.

if one country doesnt understand "true Islam" then fine but if every single Muslim country is going in same direction then only a fool 'll blame its followers. 'n I'm no one's slave nor 're u. u 'n I were born free, God sent us a independent creature, He 'll judge us based on OUR OWN ACTIONS. He doesnt want me to impose Arab culture on others nor is it my job to "punish" two lovers. nor is my God that hypocritical to "punish" me for not praying in Arabic, not reading a book in Arabic, not following Arab culture etc. 'n u 're making a very silly comparison there. if u make errors while driving then u got THE LAW which 'll punish u accordingly by making u pay a fine 'n deliver ur license to them, they wont actually stone u to death!! 'n about ur excuse of this life or that life, what prove do we 've of hereafter?? did any dead come back from jannah to tell us how beautiful our promised paradise is?? what justice has Allah done to Muslims in this life that one should be excited about the so called other life??

[ScimitarXEdge]

Well I'm a mathematician, and I see no logic in this analysis; try something more relevant

[ScimitarXEdge]

is someone's personal choice ever destructive enough to be stoned to death?? if their believe in God is not strong then that's their problem, who the hell 're a few illiterate fanatics to play God 'n punish them?? wtf?? if they want to lose their standard or morals or whatever then they 'll but why is that a crime? WHY SHOULD THAT BE A CRIME?? 're they snatching someone's right to live?? someone's right to breath? someone's right of food? someone's right of property?? how the hell 're two adults making love committing a sin?? 'cause it upsets ur Allah who has no business in this??

Everything is peoples personal choices; our behaviors are never exclusive to only us.

Take for example this debate. My personal choice to advocate these points affects you and affects your choices. Nothing is mutually exclusive.

It is for this reason alone that people who lose their standards of morals is a crime. Their choices adversely affects the world around them. The standards of society break down if we allow it's members to disregard our standards. Adultery destroys family, social order, sexual values. Things that are important. So yes they're violating everyone rights to a functional society. This is not like violating a traffic law which has no moral consequence. Their choices create irreparable damages and hence the punishment fits the crime.

These people aren not making love they're making corruption, these terms like "making love" is just a mask to make it seem like they're doing something harmless. This is why it is a sin. and the fact they're adults who should be responsible for their actions and have a duty to make the right decision makes them more accountable for their crimes and should be more strongly dealt with, they didn't do so out of ignorance, which would warrant severance.


The issue of illiterate fanatics administering the penalty is different than the punishment itself; the punishment itself is fine. We can agree Taliban are illiterates who are lost in their own delusional way of life which lacks any focus. But the punishment existed with Pashtuns before the Taliban and it will exist after too.

Zahed, you've been letting faranyan make you too soft, Be a Pashtun, toughen up.

[ScimitarXEdge]

if one country doesnt understand "true Islam" then fine but if every single Muslim country is going in same direction then only a fool 'll blame its followers. 'n I'm no one's slave nor 're u. u 'n I were born free, God sent us a independent creature, He 'll judge us based on OUR OWN ACTIONS. He doesnt want me to impose Arab culture on others nor is it my job to "punish" two lovers. nor is my God that hypocritical to "punish" me for not praying in Arabic, not reading a book in Arabic, not following Arab culture etc. 'n u 're making a very silly comparison there. if u make errors while driving then u got THE LAW which 'll punish u accordingly by making u pay a fine 'n deliver ur license to them, they wont actually stone u to death!! 'n about ur excuse of this life or that life, what prove do we 've of hereafter?? did any dead come back from jannah to tell us how beautiful our promised paradise is?? what justice has Allah done to Muslims in this life that one should be excited about the so called other life??

Your God is the product of brainwashing from farangyan who have manipulated your frail and impressionable mind and lead it into lowering standards of morality.

It is not Muslims who are imposing Arab culture; but rather you are trying to pervert and corrupt society with farangay culture. Keep your farangay views of social deviances in Europe please. Accusations of imposing Arab culture is just a distraction Farangayan made up to confuse people.

[khushal]

Punishment for adultery for fornication is not only nothing uncommon for Pashtuns,it is actually a rule of Pashtunwali. Traditionally instead of being stoned they're hacked to death by a Tura.

In Kabul during the 1840's; many women of kabul had often engaged in relations with British soldiers and the males of Kabul asked Wazir Akbar Khan to punish them for their lewdness, and he did. The Islamic Law of Punishment is that fornicators are lashed and married adulterers are stoned. Although without an Islamic Law or social organizational/checks and balance system capital penalty can be administered in both cases.

Honestly what difference is the method of penalty, the end result and the purpose is the same. I would say stoning is at least in so much as a penalty is concerned, is a bit more humane than sword hacking , the traditional Pashtun way of dealing with adulterers/fornicators.

For those of you who have become so Whitewashed and Farangified that you have lost your spine or sense of standards and feel horrified about penalizing adultery/fornication. If you can't imagine Pashtuns doing such things Pre-Taliban/Pre-Mujahideen era then there's evidence which proves the contrary.

Pashtunwali :: Khyber.ORG This is from a Pashtunwali website if you're in doubt.

For those of you who are exploiting the Civil Liberties/Personal Freedom argument. Adultery and Fornication have nothing to do with civil liberties or freedom. Immoral choices doesn't make things morally valid just because it's done by adults. The fact they're adults make their crimes even more egregious. It's not only God's business, but society's concern when two adults perform adultery or fornication; their behaviors are a pollution to society and they lead to social detriment. The penalizing of such behaviors is necessary to regulate the balance of society.

You are correct.
Most of the people here don't understand the pashtun way of life in pashtunland. From what I understand of the story is that these two unmarried individuals ran away by choice. As thread author, Shayista, pointed out it was the parents that had a hand in this. In pashtunwali if a male takes a female from another family whether by force or consent, that male has tarnished the honor of the female's family. If this is not peacefully corrected, which in this case was to hand the involved parties to this punishment you see in the video, The female family will start a blood feud with the male family and many deaths(usually the deaths will be of male relatives that had nothing to do with this act) will occur sometimes lasting generations. In pashtunwali, what you see in the video is the most peaceful way this would have been handled most likely sanctioned by the parents since they would want to avoid a blood feud.
These two parties knew of the consequences of their actions before they ran away. In a neighboring village of ours, this same exact thing happened during my grandfathers time which was not corrected peacefully and the blood feud in those two families still exist which so far has resulted in the deaths of 30 people spanning three generations, sometimes there is a an agreement of peace but it erupts again because the ill feeling never cease between the families.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Khushal , you said it precisely.

Now don't get me wrong; we're debating about whether capital penalty for adultery is valid, But I am clearly no advocate of Pashtunwalis quick-set reactionary measures or an immediate resource to capital punishments, Every situation must be investigated with temperance and Islamic standards of restraint, only the truly guilty should be punished. The ones who may have valid and or appreciable motives should be granted some way of severance and appropriate penance.

[emkhan]

if one country doesnt understand "true Islam" then fine but if every single Muslim country is going in same direction then only a fool 'll blame its followers. 'n I'm no one's slave nor 're u. u 'n I were born free, God sent us a independent creature, He 'll judge us based on OUR OWN ACTIONS. He doesnt want me to impose Arab culture on others nor is it my job to "punish" two lovers. nor is my God that hypocritical to "punish" me for not praying in Arabic, not reading a book in Arabic, not following Arab culture etc. 'n u 're making a very silly comparison there. if u make errors while driving then u got THE LAW which 'll punish u accordingly by making u pay a fine 'n deliver ur license to them, they wont actually stone u to death!! 'n about ur excuse of this life or that life, what prove do we 've of hereafter?? did any dead come back from jannah to tell us how beautiful our promised paradise is?? what justice has Allah done to Muslims in this life that one should be excited about the so called other life??

OOH i didn't know that you are a kafir. sorry for wasting your time.

[khushal]

Khushal , you said it precisely.

Now don't get me wrong; we're debating about whether capital penalty for adultery is valid, But I am clearly no advocate of Pashtunwalis quick-set reactionary measures or an immediate resource to capital punishments, Every situation must be investigated with temperance and Islamic standards of restraint, only the truly guilty should be punished. The ones who may have valid and or appreciable motives should be granted some way of severance and appropriate penance.

You said it right. What you see in the video has more to do with pashtunwali than it has with Islam. This was a case of a man running away with a female of no relations. In pashtunwali, the man committed a crime whether there was sexual relations or not.

From an Islamic perspective, an adulterer's penalty is capital punishment but this case was more incline with premarital sex which a woman and man guilty of fornication would each get a flogging of 100 stripes.

In western societies sex outside of marriage is not so much a matter of right or wrong as Is it really worth the hassle? And this type of sexual behavior has serious social consequences: abortions, unwanted babies, increase in divorce ratio and single parent families. Add to this the emotional suffering the people in general and the children in particular go through in such crises.
Today half of all American men and women in their thirties cohabited before marriage, many of them on the assumption that it is better to look deeply before they leap into marriage. But studies now demonstrate that couples who cohabit before marriage are more likely to divorce than those who do not.
Glen Elder, a sociologist at University of North Carolina, has this to say about cohabitation:
http://www.sociology.psu.edu/graduat...0et%202003.pdf

"It's a relationship that attracts those, mainly men, who are looking for an easy way out and it is uncertain what, if anything, it contributes to marriage."


A twenty-four year old lady wrote the following in a letter to Ann Landers: "...The line that struck home was from the teenager who said she knew lots of girls her age who had several partners 'just for the fun of it.' I found that odd because I was having sex at 16 and it was no fun at all. Sleeping with guys wasn't exciting or thrilling, it was degrading. It made me feel lonelier and emptier than ever. I also worried from month to month about being pregnant. That can be a real hell...if I could talk to the young girls who read your column, I would tell them that teenage sex doesn't solve problems, it creates more. It doesn't make a girl feel loved. It makes her feel cheap. I'd let them know that it doesn't make a girl 'more of a woman,' it can make her less of one." (The Vancouver Sun, Dec. 5, 1989)

[Zahed]

Everything is peoples personal choices; our behaviors are never exclusive to only us. Take for example this debate. My personal choice to advocate these points affects you and affects your choices. Nothing is mutually exclusive. It is for this reason alone that people who lose their standards of morals is a crime. Their choices adversely affects the world around them. The standards of society break down if we allow it's members to disregard our standards. Adultery destroys family, social order, sexual values. Things that are important. So yes they're violating everyone rights to a functional society. This is not like violating a traffic law which has no moral consequence. Their choices create irreparable damages and hence the punishment fits the crime. These people aren not making love they're making corruption, these terms like "making love" is just a mask to make it seem like they're doing something harmless. This is why it is a sin. and the fact they're adults who should be responsible for their actions and have a duty to make the right decision makes them more accountable for their crimes and should be more strongly dealt with, they didn't do so out of ignorance, which would warrant severance. The issue of illiterate fanatics administering the penalty is different than the punishment itself; the punishment itself is fine. We can agree Taliban are illiterates who are lost in their own delusional way of life which lacks any focus. But the punishment existed with Pashtuns before the Taliban and it will exist after too. Zahed, you've been letting faranyan make you too soft, Be a Pashtun, toughen up.

yes ofcourse most of our actions 're our personal choices 'n the fact u just admitted it's people who make their own choices proves that we 're slaves of our own decisions, not Allah's. diff here between ur 'n my point of view is that u believe in oppressing people's choices which cause u no harm, 'n I believe in live 'n let alive view. if people 're losing their standards or morals then they 're criminals of God not of ur so called society. it's upto God to decide his outcome not ur so called society. if adultery is a crime then the criminal's family can easily disown him, throw him out of their so called society, call him a kaafir, but who the hell 're they to snatch his right to live?? if God isnt taking that right from him then who the hell 're u to? at the end he 'll go to his own grave 'n answer God of his sins up there, 'n u 'll go to ur own grave answering ur own sins. 'n if these adults 're responsible for their actions then its them who 'll answer their deeds, what 're u so worried about? they 're not forcing u to follow their path, then why do u force them to accept UR corrupt rules?? 'n about ur so called Pashtunwali, I 've seen the outcome of following such a barbaric tradition. it has happened several times that a woman was forced into a marriage where she'd no choice but to elope 'n when she found her happiness with someone else she was promised "SAFETY" in her own village according to the so called Pashtunwali 'n Pashtoon elders, but all such women ever got was not only their own death but also death of their husbands and children infront of their eyes. thats ur Pashtunwali for u. whats btw up with farangyan this farangyan that?? arent Arabs farangyan? wasnt their culture brought to Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Tajikistan 'n which Asian country not?? if humanity is compared to farangi brainwash then thank God I'm a farangi brainwash! instead of setting on human laws to protect people's right, instead of creating a family friendly atmosphere 'n a educated background, only thing Muslims can think of is how to oppress a dark hole in their society, how to emotionally manipulate people who DO NOT WANT TO be part of the society, 'n finally finish off anyone 'n everyone who wants a change in their society in name of farangi brainwash. 'n when u run out of excuses u take support of abortions, divorces 'n broken families of western society even tho at the state AFG is in today u wouldnt leave this very same west in even a century time for AFG. how mature!

[Zahed]

OOH i didn't know that you are a kafir. sorry for wasting your time.

dont stress about my few mins, stress about the fairytale U 'RE dedicating ur entire life to.