Does leaving the prayer make one a kaafir?

[کیش]

I did tell a good summary of the story. Your the one who didn't read the part of adding new parts to a completed Islam.

Not paying Zakat, is harming the community; as you are not paying taxes, and are detrimintel to the community.

Praying/not praying is for you, as a person. You are benefitting/harming yourself if you don't.

You are not praying to your community, as you pay Zakat to. You pray to the lord, which is a relationship between you and god alone. Paying Zakat, is a relationship between you and your fellow Muslims.

Also, just because you pray doesn't mean it is accepted by god. You must have a clean heart in the eyes of god to prostate.

[شمله ور خراساني]

I did tell a good summary of the story. Your the one who didn't read the part of adding new parts to a completed Islam.

Not paying Zakat, is harming the community; as you are not paying taxes, and are detrimintel to the community.

Are you a Communist now?

What Quranic ayat or what sahih hadeeth do you have as evidence to support this theory of yours.

Why is economy a reason to become a kafir?

Praying/not praying is for you, as a person. You are benefitting/harming yourself if you don't.

So basically you are a liberalist. You are using liberal ideology to interpret Quran And Sunnah.

I seriously think that you are just mocking the religion. Remember that mockery of religion is apostasy.

You are not praying to your community, as you pay Zakat to.

You pray to the lord, which is a relationship between you and god alone. Paying Zakat, is a relationship between you and your fellow Muslims.

Also, just because you pray doesn't mean it is accepted by god. You must have a clean heart in the eyes of god to prostate.

Your mind is thoroughly corrupted by Western liberalist ideologies and individualism.

You have a materialist outlook at life.

You said earlier that you reject every hadeeth that is not sahih. Bukhari & Muslim are not the only muhaditheen. Thousands of other ahadeeth have been authenticated through the same chains of narrations as BUkhari and Muslims sahihayn. Yet, you reject those.

KNow that you have commited kufr akbar by rejecting something which is proven to be sahih.

And you have shown hypocricy by having double standards in your approach towards sahihayn and the sunans.

And now you invent your own interpretation of religion by giving your own views which are not supported by Quran and sunnah but rather by Marx and John Stuart Mill.

Your posts on this forum are grater kufr than the one who doesn't pray.

And I am done discussing this with you. You are mockng the religion. And people like you are people who only waste peoples time.

[کیش]

It seems all you do is label someone as something. Be it a Kafir/Socialist/ whatever. What great deen you have, as it only about other peoples deen.

You should bite your dads genitals, as you love you heritage (being Pashtun). You should also **** animals, since according to Abu Dawud it isn't a sin. Or is it? Abu Dawud contradicts itself, saying it's a sin and then it's not.

Abu Dawud also has hadiths that contradict Bukhari, but you dont know that. Since you never read the Hadiths.

Also bringing other arguments into this one is lame. You only proved that your a hypocrite, judging other people; when you have your own sins to maintain.

[ScimitarXEdge]

actually Abu Bakr Siddiq (ra) did not declare them apostates; he declared them "mufasiqeen" which means morally deviated/rebels; never did he declare takfir on them.

Kisha is right; the issue of zakah is completely different than issue of Salat since Salat is fard 'ayn, individual responsibility and zakah is fard kiyafah, community responsibility.

Salat was only enforced during the early days of Islam to rectify the Early community; by burning someone's house down. This was abolished once Muslim community was firmly established. This is no longer applicable in any instance.

[شمله ور خراساني]

actually Abu Bakr Siddiq (ra) did not declare them apostates; he declared them "mufasiqeen" which means morally deviated/rebels; never did he declare takfir on them.

Kisha is right; the issue of zakah is completely different than issue of Salat since Salat is fard 'ayn, individual responsibility and zakah is fard kiyafah, community responsibility.

Salat was only enforced during the early days of Islam to rectify the Early community; by burning someone's house down. This was abolished once Muslim community was firmly established. This is no longer applicable in any instance.

It is a consensus of the Sahaba that the one who does not pray is a kafir.

When Abu Bakr Siddique wanted to fight the tribes because they refused to pay Zakah, some of the Sahaba said that leave them, they are still establishing the Salah. So they Are Muslims.

But Abu Bakr Siddique said that there is no difference between Zakah and Salah. And if someone denies one of them to be not fard, he is an apostate. And therefore he decided to fight them.

This is well recorded in the books.

You are just twisting Islamic history and facts.

First you commit kufr akbar by promoting darwinism. That by itself takes you out of the fold of Islam. Now you are saying that taarik salaah and the one who doesn't pay zakaah are not kaafirs.

I wonder, do you also consider Jews and Christians to be Muslims?

[شمله ور خراساني]

And I don't understand Why Kish and Scimitar are making up lies. What do you gain from posting lies on a forum?

It will only increase your punishment in the hearafter.

[کیش]

^^^^

WTF, are you talking about Shamlawar? Lies. No one here is making up lies. You are the hypocrite, who calls peoples names as if you are a higher being.

Jews and Christians, are the people of the book. Have you ever readnthe Quran?nit clearly states that the The righteous Jews and Christians shall be granted paradise? Do you deny this?

Do you deny the Authentic hadiths that one sect of Islam/Christianity/Judaism, will go to Heaven and the rest in hell.

What kind of "Mullah" are you?

[ScimitarXEdge]

It is a consensus of the Sahaba that the one who does not pray is a kafir.

When Abu Bakr Siddique wanted to fight the tribes because they refused to pay Zakah, some of the Sahaba said that leave them, they are still establishing the Salah. So they Are Muslims.

But Abu Bakr Siddique said that there is no difference between Zakah and Salah. And if someone denies one of them to be not fard, he is an apostate. And therefore he decided to fight them.

This is well recorded in the books.

You are just twisting Islamic history and facts.

First you commit kufr akbar by promoting darwinism. That by itself takes you out of the fold of Islam. Now you are saying that taarik salaah and the one who doesn't pay zakaah are not kaafirs.

I wonder, do you also consider Jews and Christians to be Muslims?

there is no evidence this implied being an Apostate; because they did not say that Zakat is not obligatory; they simply refused to pay Zakat. Their establishment of Salat, was under a disagreement of whether if not paying Zakat warranted a reprisal.

The words used in most of these references in mufasaqeen. Never murtad nor kufar.

can you show they used words like murtadeen or kufar in reference to these people?

[ScimitarXEdge]

And I don't understand Why Kish and Scimitar are making up lies. What do you gain from posting lies on a forum?

It will only increase your punishment in the hearafter.

We're or at least I'm not making up lies; I'm just trying to help you shake off this deluded wahhabi brainwashing.

[ScimitarXEdge]

^^^^

WTF, are you talking about Shamlawar? Lies. No one here is making up lies. You are the hypocrite, who calls peoples names as if you are a higher being.

Jews and Christians, are the people of the book. Have you ever readnthe Quran?nit clearly states that the The righteous Jews and Christians shall be granted paradise? Do you deny this?

Do you deny the Authentic hadiths that one sect of Islam/Christianity/Judaism, will go to Heaven and the rest in hell.

What kind of "Mullah" are you?

The verses are referring to Jews/Christians prior to Islam, the ones after are obligated to convert to Islam.

[شمله ور خراساني]

I see there is no use talking about religion with you people. You deny clear cut proofs from Quran and Sunnah and you deny facts of history.

This is like talking to a stone.

[ScimitarXEdge]

you didn't give "clear proofs" you alleged that certain things are stated and affirm your position without showing the direct references themselves in their PROPER context.

You're being brainwashed sir, wake up please.

[شمله ور خراساني]

you didn't give "clear proofs" you alleged that certain things are stated and affirm your position without showing the direct references themselves in their PROPER context.

You're being brainwashed sir, wake up please.

Gulalai posted the proofs.

[کیش]

^^^

That's your whole arguement, "blah blah, no use talking to you"

Seriously, who the **** are you to call other people a "Kafir". It's not like you are without-sin. Every time you call someone a Kafir, you are only giving that person good deeds, while you stack bad ones.

Scimitar
I'm still waiting for a response in your evolution thread btw

For your response, god knows best. On what he meant about Jews/Christians, and being righteous.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Gulalai posted the proofs.

Those aren't proofs, because in Islam abandonment of Salat , does not mean not praying Salat. It means denying the obligatory practice of Salat.

these individuals are not Mu'min, but they're not kufar either, they're mufasaqeen.