Why

[khyaal]

You have that skewed view of history probably twisted by you to make yourself comfortable in your thoughts with regard to Pashtun unity. The fact is, Shah Shuja once tried to sell you people as well by striking a deal with both British Raj and Maharaja Ranjit Singh whereby he would play the role of a second fiddle in return for limited sovereignty.

Don't forget that till 1920, they were all amirs with only internal autonomy with no sovereignty in external matters.

By the way, the freedom also was not entirely due guts of the Pashtuns of your side but rather due to imperial convenience. British during 19th Century had decided there would be 3 folds of their Indian frontier; NWFP (Khyber Pukhtunkhwa) the first fold, Khyber Pukhtunkhwa the second fold, and the rest of the Afghan land the thirld fold (so the imperial term the three fold frontier). They had decided that there would be direct British rule over Pukhtunkhwa, indirect rule over FATA through political department of the British Raj, and internal autonomy to the rest of the Afghan land with external matters in the hands of the Britis. That is why every Afghan amir received stipend from the British Empire (so they in a way sold you as well) till the end.

Don't give yourself much credit while discrediting others.

So your argument implies that the claims of betrayal by afghan rulers is not true? And looking at the huge military might of the then British empire Pashtuns of Pakhtunkhwa were destined to be subjugated by the British, and thus no one is to blame except our own weakness or our destiny?

[ijaz yousafzai]

You don't deserve a decent reply either with that highly offencive post. I can reply with the same tune, but two wrong wont make a right. What educated and politically active? You mean political sevitusim? No Afghan king sold you, you sold yourself, and he just got as good deal as he could.

I am flushing out impersonators who use deceptive Pashtun nicks on this Forum but they come out of their hideouts of fake identity with a bang when their " Kind" gets exposed. Will you deliniate on the " offence" I committed, nonetheless I reserve the right to pay one in the same coin.
Btw, are you telling me that we opted or voted to be sold? ~ and don't you think that our destiny with the Firingis put us on the political chessboard to throw away the yoke. The bad luck brought us to the political arena and hence political activism ensued in Pakhtunkhwa for almost a century.Pakhtuns emerged as anti-imperialists and committed to the creed of Pakhtun nationalism. The freedom movement instilled political vigour and segacity in the common Pakhtun of a village, contrary to a non-political stalemate under dictators in Afghanistan. Do you think a despotic rule and apolitical society would gladly invite such " disruptionists" in the fold?

[Shayesta]

Only an ignorant person will call his post a great post.

Thank you.

Enjoy my ignore dustbin!

Ignore dustbin? You mean 'get lost if you ain't anti-Parsiban' dustbin?

I thought you were a decent Pakhtana.

When has your thinking ever been right that you try to strike me with the very same pathetic thinking of yours? And it takes a decent one to receive decency. Note.

The fact is, Shah Shuja once tried to sell you people as well by striking a deal with both British Raj and Maharaja Ranjit Singh whereby he would play the role of a second fiddle in return for limited sovereignty.

Why don't 'you' people first decide whether it's a 'us' matter when it comes to Pukhtoons, or whether you want to classify the sold-outs amongst Pukhtoons as 'you' (Abdur Rahman) and the decent one as 'us' (Baba).

Don't give yourself much credit while discrediting others.

Indeed.

Btw, are you telling me that we opted or voted to be sold?

Are you trying to prove all Afghans (including Parsibans) voted to sell you? By the way, you also wanted to vote for an independent Pukhtunistan; How much importance did that hold?

[Toramana]

Wali Khan in his book "Bacah Khan and Khudai Khidmatgari"(volume IV) writes, the Parsiban bureaucracy, probably, with the backing from the Persianized king of Kabul secretly sent money to Qayum Khan(a Kashmiri), leader of the Muslim League and a mortal enemy of Pashtun nationalism, for his campaign against Pashtun nationalists in the 1970 elections of Pakistan.

The Persianized bureaucracy was averse to Pashtun nationalism whereas the Persianized king feared the political implications of the victory of Pashtun nationalism on the other side of the Durand Line. Persianized by culture and Pashtun by mere claim, these kings also most probably didn't like Pashtun Culture that much.

[Toramana]

Thank you.


Are you trying to prove all Afghans (including Parsibans) voted to sell you? By the way, you also wanted to vote for an independent Pukhtunistan; How much importance did that hold?

Obviuosly, no one said that here. Here only the betrayal by the Afghan kings has been mentioned.

[Shayesta]

^ Why you call them Afghan kings? Why not Pukhtoon kings for that matter? Because only Afghans can be sold-outs? Abdur Rahman might have stayed Afghan king after he let go of Pakhtunkhwa, but he still was your king as well. So you if you consider yourself Afghan then indeed you have been sold by an Afghan, if not the you have been sold by the very same identity you hold! In that case, why don't Pakhtunkhwa Pakhtoons stop taking pride in Ahmad Shah Baba either since he formed Afghanistan, not Pukhtunistan? Or Bacha Khan who preferred Afghanistan over Pakhtunkhwa soil?

And the claims you just made about Persians working against Pukhtoon unity, I would love to see some links.

[Toramana]

I don't think they could be called Pashtuns. They might be Afghan-type but had ceased to be Pashtun-type after Taimur Shah. Persian by culture, they didn't have much in common with Pashtuns except some vague feelings of lineage although they were aware of the political usefulness of the identity of the majority ethnicity and the risks to their power from ignoring this majority.

I strongly believe the Afghan kings had kept Pashtun culture at bay not granting it any respectable status at home or court.

[Shayesta]

^ Weren't you yourself resident of the very same nation, until Abdur Rahman decided otherwise? So back then he was your king and nor were you bothered about how those kings treated Pukhto and Pukhtowali, but now they are just a bunch of Afghans? Why are we getting the sole credit for all the disasters done by Pukhtoons? Oops, I mean Afghans?

[khyaal]

Wali Khan in his book "Bacah Khan and Khudai Khidmatgari"(volume IV) writes, the Parsiban bureaucracy, probably, with the backing from the Persianized king of Kabul secretly sent money to Qayum Khan, leader of the Muslim League and a mortal enemy of Pashtun nationalism, for his campaign against Pashtun nationalists in the 1970 elections of Pakistan.

The Persianized bureaucracy was averse to Pashtun nationalism whereas the Persianized king feared the political implications of the victory of Pashtun nationalism on the other side of the Durand Line. Persianized by culture and Pashtun by mere claim, these kings also most probably didn't like Pashtun Culture that much.

Perhaps Wali khan resorted to seek lame excuses for his own incompetence or his relationship with Punjabi establishment when he refused to demand the merger of Southern Pakhtunkhwa with NWFP after the abolition of One Unit in 1968. Khan Abdul Samad Khan Shaeed's letters to late Ajmal Khattak are evidence of the fact. Wali Khan even convinced Bacha khan who was then in Kabul to not to listen to Samad Khan who had gone to Kabul immediately after his release from prison of 14 long years to meet Bacha khan about the issue.

About his love for Pashto can be judged from the fact that he even declined to utilize the opportunity of making Pashto as the official language of NWFP despite the provision granted in the 1973 constitution.

[Toramana]

^ Weren't you yourself resident of the very same nation, until Abdur Rahman decided otherwise? So back then he was your king and nor were you bothered about how those kings treated Pukhto and Pukhtowali, but now they are just a bunch of Afghans? Why are we getting the sole credit for all the disasters done by Pukhtoons? Oops, I mean Afghans?

I understand your point and accept that we collectively own that legacy but this you and us thing actually starts when people exclusively single us out for betrayel of the Afghan land. The argument usually goes, "you liked to live in slavery", which is of course provocative.

[khyaal]

I understand your point and accept that we collectively own that legacy but this you and us thing actually starts when people exclusively single us out for betrayel of the Afghan land. The argument usually goes, "you liked to live in slavery", which is of course provocative.

Actually they liked to live with Indians. Khudai Khidmatgaars were very late when they made a demand for Pakhtunistan in June 1947. Before that they had fallen in love with Indians.

[Toramana]

Perhaps Wali khan resorted to seek lame excuses for his own incompetence or his relationship with Punjabi establishment when he refused to demand the merger of Southern Pakhtunkhwa with NWFP after the abolition of One Unit in 1968. Khan Abdul Samad Khan Shaeed's letters to late Ajmal Khattak are evidence of the fact. Wali Khan even convinced Bacha khan who was then in Kabul to not to listen to Samad Khan who had gone to Kabul immediately after his release from prison of 14 long years to meet Bacha khan about the issue.

About his love for Pashto can be judged from the fact that he even declined to utilize the opportunity of making Pashto as the official language of NWFP despite the provision granted in the 1973 constitution.

Could you cite any credible sources apart from PMAP crap about his relationship with the Paki establishment? As for I have studied, for the entire decade of 1960 he was a target of military authorities for his capacity to lead political battle against martial law rule, which he did provide in reality.

When you make a claim, do it with sagacity.

[khyaal]

Could you cite any credible sources apart from PMAP crap about his relationship with the Paki establishment? As for I have studied, for the entire decade of 1960 he was a target of military authorities for his capacity to lead political battle against martial law rule, which he did provide in reality.

When you make a claim, do it with sagacity.

lol. This is ridiculous. Ajmal Khattak has died just recently while the book of Khan Shaheed's letters was written decades ago. Besides, Ajmal Khattak never refuted this fact.

[Toramana]

Actually they liked to live with Indians. Khudai Khidmatgaars were very late when they made a demand for Pakhtunistan in June 1947. Before that they had fallen in love with Indians.

This is like a mouse blaming a lion for infidelity.

They(Khudai Khidmatgars) did what could be practically done i.e., in a situation where the Afghan kings, the so-called gaurdians of Pashtun sovereignty/freedom, were contented with what were they getting in reward for their passivity to the occupation of Pashtun lands in the form of annual stipends from British authorities and limited freedom in a truncated Afghanistan.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Mark my words or perhaps print this post out and keep it with yourself, If we do not preach unity now, In the next couple of decades, a Pashtun of Pashtunkhwa won't have the same love for us. We can see as of right now there are Pashtuns residing in those areas who perhaps don't care about us at all but I expect our elders to pass on the message, I expect our seniors like Khan Gul, Feroz Afridi and others to tell the youth that those Pashtuns of Afghanistan are the same exact people like us. Its either now or never. Once a Pashtun from Pakistan forgets Pashto, Pashtunwali, he won't have those aspirations that I might share. If he is not taught about Pashtun history in his school[which is the case] how can he ever feel the sense of unity?

Excellent post, Admin Khan. People here equate Pashtun awareness (deliberately not using the word 'nationalism' here) with everything ill you can conceive - atheism, being an agent of RAW, Socialism, liberalism, Bachaa Khan....

It's also often incorrectly believed that this phenomenon of Pashtun awareness is confined to the ANP or certain other groups. Pashtun unity is in actuality beyond one person or party. It's not the gimmick of a political party, it's something that is in the hearts of millions of people.

Perhaps Wali khan resorted to seek lame excuses for his own incompetence or his relationship with Punjabi establishment when he refused to demand the merger of Southern Pakhtunkhwa with NWFP after the abolition of One Unit in 1968. Khan Abdul Samad Khan Shaeed's letters to late Ajmal Khattak are evidence of the fact. Wali Khan even convinced Bacha khan who was then in Kabul to not to listen to Samad Khan who had gone to Kabul immediately after his release from prison of 14 long years to meet Bacha khan about the issue.

About his love for Pashto can be judged from the fact that he even declined to utilize the opportunity of making Pashto as the official language of NWFP despite the provision granted in the 1973 constitution.

khyaal, do you think all of this is easy? They're still crying over "Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa" all over Pakistan and we're talking about a merger and making Pashto the official language of Pashtunkhwa here.

There is no way in God's red (I assume it's red and orangy) hell that the Pakistani establishment would allow any redrawing of the provincial boundaries. It's the best way to Balkanize this artificial state and hence, it will never be done. Lastly, it's the same case with Pashto - it will never be made the official language of any part of Pakistan because of the same reasons. These issues are beyond Wali Khan or any other individual.

I don't think they could be called Pashtuns. They were Afghan-type but had ceased to be Pashtun-type anymore after Taimur Shah. Persian by culture, they didn't have much in common with Pashtuns except some vague feelings of lineage although they were aware of the political usefulness of the identity of the majority ethnicity and the risks to their power from ignoring this majority.

I strongly believe the Afghan kings had kept Pashtun culture at bay not granting it any respectable status at home or court.

Pashtun reunification, unity and brotherhood is solely and exclusively in the interests of Pashtuns and is utterly and obviously detrimental to the interests of all non-Pashtuns surrounding us. This is an inescapable truth every Pashtun has to live with. We have some very vocal members here on PF who are extremely resentful of Parsiwaans and/or Punjabis but contempt breeds only more hatred. There is a better way but that way is, just like all other things 'better', difficult. That's why so few understand Bachaa Khan and those that do hold him in such high regards.


In any case, I find it excessively relevant to post this here:


که کابل دی او که کويټه زمونږ کور دی
کندهار که پيښور دی زمونږ ورور دی
هر خاين چې پکې خنډ اچول غواړي
که د لر دی که د بر دی مخ يې تور دی