Border clash

[ZarakDurrani606]

The question isn't about what we should do, but what we shouldn't do. Unity is a step by step process and currently we are almost at rock bottom. Sadly the situation have escalated and our points of view completely taken different path, that we are no longer have the same agenda to improve our lives. The sad part is that our agenda actually directly in conflict with each other. So our focus should be what lines we shouldn't cross so conflict doesn't arise to begnin with.

this is mad frustrating. What agenda??

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

A few drunk sodomite potheads in American uniforms got into a fight with a few drunk sodomite potheads in Punjabi uniforms. Both groups are Pashtuns. Nobody won. Pashtuns lost. On both sides.

[Samandri]

I do believe that a Charsi Bhangi and powdari soldier of ANA has more courage and fearlessness than a Pakistani soldier but how much they are effective? they are just some village thugs with guns and cool uniforms. They lack discipline and temperament of a soldier. A warrior is not a soldier.

About the incident, either side could be the provoker. The thing is the Achakzai villages on the border play both sides for their own economic interests. They must have been calling themselves Pakistanis for convenience so Pakistani soldiers must have visited them under this impression for the census purpose. Agitated ANA might have opened fire first as violation of the border or trigger-happy Pakistani army might have opened fire on ANA first.

[Samandri]

Look how these loony tunes soldiers are operating, there doesnt seem to be any command and discipline.......they are more like shughli badmashan of a kalay

[Samandri]

B

I actually believe this unification idea is actually causing disunity. When Afghan Pashtuns are calling for unification it causes distress among Pakistani Pashtuns. You may ask why, it because it sets a question mark on their identity as Pakistanis. To emphasize that they are Pakistanis, they will go to great length and insult Afghans, yes it includes our women as well. Last time there were clash between Afghanistan and Pakistan, some Pakistani major got killed. Pakistani Pashtuns were quick to upload videos and insult Afghans including our women.
.

I agree with you on this. But the instigators are on both sides. The arrogance and haughtiness of Pashtuns on Afghanistan side work like oil on fire as Pashtuns irrespective of the country set great value upon self-respect and esteem. The ones having avatars of Afghanistan flag, Najibullah, Daud, Amanullah etc trolls around and unnecessarily instigate Pakistani Pashtuns on social media. To give you fresh example, yesterday i posted an article on history of Orakzais on my facebook page and some Noorzai from Afghanistan posted a comment "today Orakzais are Punjabi slaves" , intending to ruin the mood of Orakzais who were enthusiastic about reading some content on their history.......... When a proud and headstrong Orakzai would read this comment , he might insult Afghanistan and its people

[Baserka]

Pakistan is dishonest but there is so much hostility towards Pakistanis in Afghanistan that I would not be surprised if the provocation had all started in afghanistan's side. When someone dies in these clashes, they treat him like a hero whose children are praised for their father's bravery for two days and then ignored and left to starve for their rest of their lives. If your death does not resolve the problem, you are an idiot to die and leave your family behind to beg. For an Afghan to be so eager to put himself or another Afghan in that situation, is similarliy idiotic.

Because these incidents concern Pakistanis, no Afghan official shows any sense of responsibility for his own soldiers or people. As long as during these clashes, more Pakistanis die, they are happy. They are just waiting for the opportunity. That's not courage.

[Qami]

Reading all this makes e think of something. Please don't get angry with me saying that, but You could actually learn from your neighbors (e.g. the Baluch). At least those that I met consider themselves first and most important Baluch and only then Iranian, Pakistani, Afghan.


while it seems that among Pashtuns so any foreign ideologies spread hat make people hate each other. The paradox is that Pashtuns are a degree far more patrilineal and with a stricter relation to the patrilineal origin, than Baluch are.

[kunatawar]

Reading all this makes e think of something. Please don't get angry with me saying that, but You could actually learn from your neighbors (e.g. the Baluch). At least those that I met consider themselves first and most important Baluch and only then Iranian, Pakistani, Afghan.


while it seems that among Pashtuns so any foreign ideologies spread hat make people hate each other. The paradox is that Pashtuns are a degree far more patrilineal and with a stricter relation to the patrilineal origin, than Baluch are.

you're right i rarely see baloch insulting other baloch from different countries, they have much more of a pan identity than we do. BTW are you chitrali?

[Qami]

you're right i rarely see baloch insulting other baloch from different countries, they have much more of a pan identity than we do. BTW are you chitrali?

No bro, I am Armenian.
Unfortunately you get often stamped as "nationalist" with a negative context when talking about Pashtun unity, but one shouldnt forget that Pashtuns with their tribal structure are like a big family and when there is no harmony in a family and there are clashes, it leads to destruction and all will suffer. And that is what Pashtuns actually do. Being a nation of big size with a lot of culture for their own Pashtuns seem to be in a situation of some small minority people. What is really sad.
I know it doesn't sound nice, but unfortunately you cannot just praise. Praising is the poison of the enemies

[khushal]

A few drunk sodomite potheads in American uniforms got into a fight with a few drunk sodomite potheads in Punjabi uniforms. Both groups are Pashtuns. Nobody won. Pashtuns lost. On both sides.

The panjabi uniforms are actually British uniforms.

[toughpashtun]

I do believe that a Charsi Bhangi and powdari soldier of ANA has more courage and fearlessness than a Pakistani soldier but how much they are effective? they are just some village thugs with guns and cool uniforms. They lack discipline and temperament of a soldier. A warrior is not a soldier.

About the incident, either side could be the provoker. The thing is the Achakzai villages on the border play both sides for their own economic interests. They must have been calling themselves Pakistanis for convenience so Pakistani soldiers must have visited them under this impression for the census purpose. Agitated ANA might have opened fire first as violation of the border or trigger-happy Pakistani army might have opened fire on ANA first.

Such comparisons,like you did between ANA and Pakistan army, are childish and do not carry much value
How can you say so confidently that ANA has more courage than Pakistani soldiers?
I am sure ANA soldiers are brave ,Afghans as a whole are very,very courageous but you have not seen or met Pakistani soldiers.They are dauntless,patriotic to the highest level and have an unbelievable willingness for sacrifice , be that loss of life or limb.
Please don't fall into the trap of believing that Pakistan army is majority Punjabi,and Punjabis are cowards.That is very far from the truth.
As a whole , the courage of Pashtun people is legendary , but our army has lionhearted men in its ranks.

[khushal]

Reading all this makes e think of something. Please don't get angry with me saying that, but You could actually learn from your neighbors (e.g. the Baluch). At least those that I met consider themselves first and most important Baluch and only then Iranian, Pakistani, Afghan.


while it seems that among Pashtuns so any foreign ideologies spread hat make people hate each other. The paradox is that Pashtuns are a degree far more patrilineal and with a stricter relation to the patrilineal origin, than Baluch are.

What you read here is the product of Afghan and Pakistani media programs. In Pakistani media, everything is blamed on RAW(India) and in Afghanistan media everything is blamed on ISI(Pakistan). This is done by design to repel the peoples anger towards outside forces rather than the source which is their own incompetent governments.

[khushal]

Such comparisons,like you did between ANA and Pakistan army, are childish and do not carry much value
How can you say so confidently that ANA has more courage than Pakistani soldiers?
I am sure ANA soldiers are brave ,Afghans as a whole are very,very courageous but you have not seen or met Pakistani soldiers.They are dauntless,patriotic to the highest level and have an unbelievable willingness for sacrifice , be that loss of life or limb.
Please don't fall into the trap of believing that Pakistan army is majority Punjabi,and Punjabis are cowards.That is very far from the truth.
As a whole , the courage of Pashtun people is legendary , but our army has lionhearted men in its ranks.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. good one.

[Samandri]

No bro, I am Armenian.
Unfortunately you get often stamped as "nationalist" with a negative context when talking about Pashtun unity, but one shouldnt forget that Pashtuns with their tribal structure are like a big family and when there is no harmony in a family and there are clashes, it leads to destruction and all will suffer. And that is what Pashtuns actually do. Being a nation of big size with a lot of culture for their own Pashtuns seem to be in a situation of some small minority people. What is really sad.
I know it doesn't sound nice, but unfortunately you cannot just praise. Praising is the poison of the enemies

Balochs have historically been inclusive as they needed numbers against their enemies (for the most part much numerous Pashtuns were their enemies or dynasties of Sindh). They readily welcomed and absorbed Brahuis, Pashtuns, Jats etc and declared them Balochs for political purposes. A read of their history reveals that they were free from inter-tribal wars , only few cases of inter-tribal wars in their history e.g 30 years Lashari-Rind war which would have been very unnoticeable in Pashtun history which is ridden with inter-tribal wars. Historically Balochs and Brahuis ganged up on small Pashtun tribes on fringes while no other Pashtun tribe in the vicinity came to their rescue. In fact there were cases in which weakened Pashtun tribe after war with Baloch-Brahui alliance, got attacked by other predatory Pashtun tribes in the vicinity. There has never been a case of Baloch tribe forming alliance with a Pashtun tribe to wage war against fellow Baloch tribe but there have been many cases in which a Pashtun tribe joined hands with Balochs to maul another Pashtun tribe.....another point to consider is that number of Pashtun clans joined the banners of Balochs and got balochized, but not a single Baloch tribe has been Pashtunized.

Baloch society is not Mullah-ridden and they are generally subservient to their own Sardars so there is an order to their society , thus they are better organized and united than Pashtuns who have had always issues with people trying to rule over them locally or on higher level.

[toughpashtun]

Great video, clearly shows that Pakistanis were at fault. Even if we take information bias into consideration, then the fault will still tilt toward Pakistanis. The visuals also confirms the Afghan claim. The only thing that could be questionable is who fired first, because it hard to prove.

Here is how I think it went.
Pakistani military was trying to do census and the Afghan authorities were clearly against it, because it was in Afghan soil. The Pakistanis ignored Afghan discontent and went in heavily armed. Clearly it didn't look like they were just doing census, but probably also wanted to win over the Afghan part of village into Pakistan. The villagers informed ANA and ANA went in, which caused exchange of fire. From the visuals its looks like Pakistanis fled and abandon their vehicles. ANA advanced and captured the vehicles and burned them down. At this point they were at and around villages. In this point the Pakistanis started shelling, which mostly hit villages. This is also why initially Pakistani media emphasized that civilians were hit, but they worded it in a way that gave the blame to ANA. If Pakistanis actually fought directly, they would have most certainly emphasized the battle itself and showcased their ''bravado''. This is why from the Afghan media it is the battle itself which is in focus point.

Only after hearing the Pakistani version too can you actually come to an unbiased conclusion.