Border clash

[ZarakDurrani606]

You guys need to stop blaming on the West all your miseries. You know "our part of the world" wasn't that peaceful before the Brits showed up.

Regarding Pakistani, screw them. Afghanistan is to be blamed for starting a fight with Pakistan over that dead horse called Loy Awghanistan but that was long time ago. We tried to fix the situation tow years ago but Pakis refused to honor their promises.

I couldn't care less about Pakis. Let them die. Hurray! lol

Well i DO care, cuz its Pashtuns on either sides that get caught in the affray. This isn't COD

[toughpashtun]

So far it seems that Afghan forces initiated and Pakistani census team workers were killed.Wow.I am sure these census workers were a big threat to Afghan security and solidarity.Pakistan is bound to respond and there will be casualties on both sides.
A peaceful solution to these problems is the need of the hour.

[ZarakDurrani606]

[MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION] and loy afghanistan isn't dead. They are'nt just exchanging fire for nothing, pal. The region of Afghanistan (southern) and Khyber (also Afghan) had trouble before the brits but present depredations ensued after the creation of nation states. If you're gonna blame "all pakistanis", i suggest you keep it relegated to punjab. Us Pashtuns have absolutely no wish to attack or subvert our brethren across the line.

[Firdousi]

Well i DO care, cuz its Pashtuns on either sides that get caught in the affray. This isn't COD

Hmm, you got a point there. You are worried about your people. I respect that. But you must understand that I couldn't care less about Pakis whether Pashtuns or Punjabis. Actually Pashtuns are even more hostile to us than Punjabis.

In general, I consider Pakistan our enemy and I pray every day for its obliteration.

[Firdousi]

[MENTION=19424]Firdousi[/MENTION] and loy afghanistan isn't dead. They are'nt just exchanging fire for nothing, pal. The region of Afghanistan (southern) and Khyber (also Afghan) had trouble before the brits but present depredations ensued after the creation of nation states. If you're gonna blame "all pakistanis", i suggest you keep it relegated to punjab. Us Pashtuns have absolutely no wish to attack or subvert our brethren across the line.

Modern nation states, fake idless nations and cultural genocide were bad things, that true. But you didn't mean that. You didn't say that. You implied that tonly the West is happy and involved in this mess which is not true. West is in decay and many other actors playing an active role here. You shouldn't ignore that nor play the victim card. We are not that innocent nor that victims..

[Firdousi]

legit question, how old are you by the way?

587.

[DSM0305]

@Firdousi and loy afghanistan isn't dead. They are'nt just exchanging fire for nothing, pal. The region of Afghanistan (southern) and Khyber (also Afghan) had trouble before the brits but present depredations ensued after the creation of nation states. If you're gonna blame "all pakistanis", i suggest you keep it relegated to punjab. Us Pashtuns have absolutely no wish to attack or subvert our brethren across the line.

I normally do not quote people, but you came up with an interesting issue ''loy Afghanistan'', which I will address in more details in a separated thread when I have time.

Before I comment on the issue, you need to know that I am a very pro Pashtun, even to an extent that people may consider me an ethnic nationalist. So what I am about to say is for our own good.

To give you an example from just now. The user taughpashtun is one of more reasonable Pakistani who apparently also have ''good'' intention toward Pashtuns. Now look closely on what he have written.

So far it seems that Afghan forces initiated and Pakistani census team workers were killed.Wow.I am sure these census workers were a big threat to Afghan security and solidarity.Pakistan is bound to respond and there will be casualties on both sides.
A peaceful solution to these problems is the need of the hour.

This is what a more reasonable of Pakistanis wrote and to top it off one who are more Pashtun centric. Now imagine what will an unreasonable Pakistani write, one who are more Pakistani centric... What am I trying to say you may ask. Well brother, as much as I want united Pashtuns and greater Afghanistan; this view is most certainly not shared by them.

If a census is conducted. I can in most certain in guarantee tell you that wast of majority of Pakistani Pashtuns will want the durrand line to be recognized by the Afghan government. Something Afghan Pashtuns deliberately ignore is the framework of Pakistan. Punjabis, Sindhis, Mujahirs wast majority of them are not Pakistani nationalist, but they want to control Pakistan as much as possible(and they do), but Pashtuns in the other hand, the wast majority of them are Pakistani nationalists and have no interest in its influence in Pakistan. To sum it up:
- Pashtuns Pakistani nationalist, but have less interest in influence inside the country
- Indic Pakistanis, far less nationalistic, but have high interest in influencing Pakistan as much as possible

Don't get me wrong. There is nothing more that I would want to see, than Pashtun unity, but unfortunately it isn't the ground reality. We may share language, culture, history, but our view points is way to far apart.

[ZarakDurrani606]

Hmm, you got a point there. You are worried about your people. I respect that. But you must understand that I couldn't care less about Pakis whether Pashtuns or Punjabis. Actually Pashtuns are even more hostile to us than Punjabis.

In general, I consider Pakistan our enemy and I pray every day for its obliteration.

Lol what??!!! Pashtuns hostile??? Most Pashtuns here are the least privileged pal let alone be "hostile"....... ain't nobody got time for hostility. Why should WE (Pashtuns) be hostile towards you? Are you counting fringe groups or proxies as our representatives? You're sorely mistaken pal, it'd help of you had a less tajikam influenced view of things. Things are'nt as they seem, and we certainly are'mt an obseqious lot. And yes about the contemporary problems..... they are a result of british intervention something called "divide and rule". It's what happens in Afghanistan as well and then on to us, across the line (another brit construct).

[ZarakDurrani606]

I normally do not quote people, but you came up with an interesting issue ''loy Afghanistan'', which I will address in more details in a separated thread when I have time.

Before I comment on the issue, you need to know that I am a very pro Pashtun, even to an extent that people may consider me an ethnic nationalist. So what I am about to say is for our own good.

To give you an example from just now. The user taughpashtun is one of more reasonable Pakistani who apparently also have ''good'' intention toward Pashtuns. Now look closely on what he have written.

This is what a more reasonable of Pakistanis wrote and to top it off one who are more Pashtun centric. Now imagine what will an unreasonable Pakistani write, one who are more Pakistani centric... What am I trying to say you may ask. Well brother, as much as I want united Pashtuns and greater Afghanistan; this view is most certainly not shared by them.

If a census is conducted. I can in most certain in guarantee tell you that wast of majority of Pakistani Pashtuns will want the durrand line to be recognized by the Afghan government. Something Afghan Pashtuns deliberately ignore is the framework of Pakistan. Punjabis, Sindhis, Mujahirs wast majority of them are not Pakistani nationalist, but they want to control Pakistan as much as possible(and they do), but Pashtuns in the other hand, the wast majority of them are Pakistani nationalists and have no interest in its influence in Pakistan. To sum it up:
- Pashtuns Pakistani nationalist, but have less interest in influence inside the country
- Indic Pakistanis, far less nationalistic, but have high interest in influencing Pakistan as much as possible

Don't get me wrong. There is nothing more that I would want to see, than Pashtun unity, but unfortunately it isn't the ground reality. We may share language, culture, history, but our view points is way to far apart.

Graana, the vast majority of Pashtuns don't give a fig about the line. A turncoat Tajik recently landed in isld claimimg that raw and nds were out for his blood, he's of the view that the afghan gov. recognize the durand line and i suppose he's found common cause with the pakistan establishment. Some tajiks in afghanistan are of the same view, there claim being that the huge influx of pashtuns from khyber will tilt the scales way in the pashtuns' favor. Are you following wrora? Well i'm not saying that we just up and blatantly ignore the line but it remains that the recognition of durand line issue isn't as one-sided as it seems. You probably think that Pashtuns (khyber) are just patriotic by nature but you probably don't know that it's only the sellouts who accept punjab's payment and are pre-disposed to be obseqious. In this day and age, of nation states, the lines can seem pretty blurred, please don't let a few selective examples misguide you, ones that particularly pertained to your narrative.

[Shapur]

Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi rajeoon

Once again Pashtuns are the losers and victims such events.

This is the version from Afghan side of the border.

سپين بولدک کې د افغان او پاکستاني ځواکونو نښته - YouTube

[DSM0305]

Graana, the vast majority of Pashtuns don't give a fig about the line. A turncoat Tajik recently landed in isld claimimg that raw and nds were out for his blood, he's of the view that the afghan gov. recognize the durand line and i suppose he's found common cause with the pakistan establishment. Some tajiks in afghanistan are of the same view, there claim being that the huge influx of pashtuns from khyber will tilt the scales way in the pashtuns' favor. Are you following wrora? Well i'm not saying that we just up and blatantly ignore the line but it remains that the recognition of durand line issue isn't as one-sided as it seems. You probably think that Pashtuns (khyber) are just patriotic by nature but you probably don't know that it's only the sellouts who accept punjab's payment and are pre-disposed to be obseqious. In this day and age, of nation states, the lines can seem pretty blurred, please don't let a few selective examples misguide you, ones that particularly pertained to your narrative.

Brother, I did not cherry pick the quote. He is one of more rational Pakistanis and pro Pashtun. Other ordinary Pakistanis have suggested massacre on Afghans...

It is a quite good example you have mentioned. This very example is actually a living prof of a one sided unification dream. You will not see this kind of reaction from the other side of durand line.

You will be surprised that even ethnic nationalistic Tajiks are supporting ''loy Afghanistan''. You may ask why would they do that? Well you see, it is a national issue that unite people from different ethnicity for a common national cause. That Pedram dude is actually a rarity, which is also why it took Pakistanis by surprise. Even pro Tajik media actually took side with Pashtun outrage and said that Pedram was out of line and didn't take peoples value into consideration.
You may ask why would Farsiwans support it, if they because minority if it happens. You see, Farsiwans knows it, Punjabis knows it and deep inside we Afghan Pashtuns also know it; loy Afghanistan is very unlikely scenario and I emphasize VERY UNLIKELY.

I actually believe this unification idea is actually causing disunity. When Afghan Pashtuns are calling for unification it causes distress among Pakistani Pashtuns. You may ask why, it because it sets a question mark on their identity as Pakistanis. To emphasize that they are Pakistanis, they will go to great length and insult Afghans, yes it includes our women as well. Last time there were clash between Afghanistan and Pakistan, some Pakistani major got killed. Pakistani Pashtuns were quick to upload videos and insult Afghans including our women.
We Afghans even when insulting Pakistan. We strongly emphasize that its not directed toward Pashtuns but toward Punjabis and its not even Punjabi people, we make sure they know its their establishment our anger is directed against, not the ordinary people.

So I be frank with you. Sometimes one needs to accept realities. This doesn't mean we shouldn't try to achieve unity among Pashtuns, its only means that we must be realistic and set our priorities straight.

[ZarakDurrani606]

Brother, I did not cherry pick the quote. He is one of more rational Pakistanis and pro Pashtun. Other ordinary Pakistanis have suggested massacre on Afghans...

It is a quite good example you have mentioned. This very example is actually a living prof of a one sided unification dream. You will not see this kind of reaction from the other side of durand line.

You will be surprised that even ethnic nationalistic Tajiks are supporting ''loy Afghanistan''. You may ask why would they do that? Well you see, it is a national issue that unite people from different ethnicity for a common national cause. That Pedram dude is actually a rarity, which is also why it took Pakistanis by surprise. Even pro Tajik media actually took side with Pashtun outrage and said that Pedram was out of line and didn't take peoples value into consideration.
You may ask why would Farsiwans support it, if they because minority if it happens. You see, Farsiwans knows it, Punjabis knows it and deep inside we Afghan Pashtuns also know it; loy Afghanistan is very unlikely scenario and I emphasize VERY UNLIKELY.

I actually believe this unification idea is actually causing disunity. When Afghan Pashtuns are calling for unification it causes distress among Pakistani Pashtuns. You may ask why, it because it sets a question mark on their identity as Pakistanis. To emphasize that they are Pakistanis, they will go to great length and insult Afghans, yes it includes our women as well. Last time there were clash between Afghanistan and Pakistan, some Pakistani major got killed. Pakistani Pashtuns were quick to upload videos and insult Afghans including our women.
We Afghans even when insulting Pakistan. We strongly emphasize that its not directed toward Pashtuns but toward Punjabis and its not even Punjabi people, we make sure they know its their establishment our anger is directed against, not the ordinary people.

So I be frank with you. Sometimes one needs to accept realities. This doesn't mean we shouldn't try to achieve unity among Pashtuns, its only means that we must be realistic and set our priorities straight.

What do you suggest ought be done? As for the gul khans here..... well....... they got what was coming to them. They were treated like dogs by the punjab police. There were camps crammed full of people from fata, from bajaur and wana and whose occupants were treated like animals. Karma i suppose. All of this will be the bane of Pashtuns though. On both sides, i might add.

[DSM0305]

Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi rajeoon

Once again Pashtuns are the losers and victims such events.

This is the version from Afghan side of the border.

سپين بولدک کې د افغان او پاکستاني ځواکونو نښته - YouTube

Great video, clearly shows that Pakistanis were at fault. Even if we take information bias into consideration, then the fault will still tilt toward Pakistanis. The visuals also confirms the Afghan claim. The only thing that could be questionable is who fired first, because it hard to prove.

Here is how I think it went.
Pakistani military was trying to do census and the Afghan authorities were clearly against it, because it was in Afghan soil. The Pakistanis ignored Afghan discontent and went in heavily armed. Clearly it didn't look like they were just doing census, but probably also wanted to win over the Afghan part of village into Pakistan. The villagers informed ANA and ANA went in, which caused exchange of fire. From the visuals its looks like Pakistanis fled and abandon their vehicles. ANA advanced and captured the vehicles and burned them down. At this point they were at and around villages. In this point the Pakistanis started shelling, which mostly hit villages. This is also why initially Pakistani media emphasized that civilians were hit, but they worded it in a way that gave the blame to ANA. If Pakistanis actually fought directly, they would have most certainly emphasized the battle itself and showcased their ''bravado''. This is why from the Afghan media it is the battle itself which is in focus point.

[Friends of Baloch]

BTW check out Pak Defence Forum. They have gone full retarded. I am reading some of their comments and laughing my a ss off lmao

Thank you. I had a skim read. There is a very strange paki fellow that was doing running commentary claiming that multiple ANA soldiers had been killed and that the paki airforce was sending bombers to the area. I wonder, why are pakis such prolific liars? They lie about everything.

Skinny black pakis posting on that paki forum seem to think that they are directing real time combat operations and making policy decisions, by posting their opinions on the internet.

[DSM0305]

What do you suggest ought be done? As for the gul khans here..... well....... they got what was coming to them. They were treated like dogs by the punjab police. There were camps crammed full of people from fata, from bajaur and wana and whose occupants were treated like animals. Karma i suppose. All of this will be the bane of Pashtuns though. On both sides, i might add.

The question isn't about what we should do, but what we shouldn't do. Unity is a step by step process and currently we are almost at rock bottom. Sadly the situation have escalated and our points of view completely taken different path, that we are no longer have the same agenda to improve our lives. The sad part is that our agenda actually directly in conflict with each other. So our focus should be what lines we shouldn't cross so conflict doesn't arise to begin with.